My experience with the Tesla Model 3

[Stompin Tom]

No, the increase is exactly as big as it appears, the energy recovered from regenerative braking goes back to the battery.

The amount of energy a jake brake can dissipate is huge, the cummins X15 being up to 600hp of retarding power, the same it produces. For example say there is a long grade where an X15 truck runs downhill with the jake brake maxed out for 5 minutes, that engine has dissipated the equivalent of 37kwh of energy. That would power the Tesla semi at worst case 2 kwh/km for 18.5 km, I'd consider that significant. Or to put that in terms of diesel, if a truck uses 40 L/100km that truck lost the equivalent of 7.4 liters of diesel in energy dissipated through the jake brake.

Trucking contracts are often won and lost in cents per kilometer, Tesla trucks will catch on big if they can improve even slightly over current equipment.

Sorry, your operating on the assumption that the ISX is using diesel to create that 600 hp of jake power, but that is not the case, the power is created from back pressure created from the drive tires forward. A diesel engine while jaking uses less fuel then when at idle. Your theory is out to lunch.

The second thing, and I am no techo junkie, the previous debate was about how much electricity will be used in hilly terrain and the argument back was it will be recovered in regerative braking. As I understand it the amount recouped in regenerative braking is FAR less then the amount of energy required to climb the same hill. It is in no way a 1 or 1 offset. So when you factor in that a truck jaking is using virtually no fuel, it also offsets the energy consumed climbing the same hill. It travels those down hill KM's with virtually no energy used which is a positive offset.

 

[ABMax24]

Sorry, your operating on the assumption that the ISX is using diesel to create that 600 hp of jake power, but that is not the case, the power is created from back pressure created from the drive tires forward. A diesel engine while jaking uses less fuel then when at idle. Your theory is out to lunch.

The second thing, and I am no techo junkie, the previous debate was about how much electricity will be used in hilly terrain and the argument back was it will be recovered in regerative braking. As I understand it the amount recouped in regenerative braking is FAR less then the amount of energy required to climb the same hill. It is in no way a 1 or 1 offset. So when you factor in that a truck jaking is using virtually no fuel, it also offsets the energy consumed climbing the same hill. It travels those down hill KM's with virtually no energy used which is a positive offset.

Not once did I state that a jake brake takes fuel to operate. My post only shows the amount of energy that is wasted in one. That is exactly what brakes of any kind do, take mechanical energy and turn it into heat, in the case of traditional brakes by heating the discs or drums, in the case of an engine brake by heating up the engine and the air flowing through the engine.

Clearly you will never recover as much energy in regenerative braking as was used to get up the hill, as there are friction loses from air resistance and rolling resistance, but these are typically speed dependent and apply regardless if the terrain being traveled is flat or hilly.

The energy used to increase the gravitational potential energy of the truck however is constant, and is returned on the downhill, yes some is lost due to friction but that would be there on flat ground anyway and would come from the drive train instead of from the decrease in gravitational potential energy from going downhill.

E=mgh

 

[Couch]

yeah, a whole bunch of very debatable propaganda.

A few examples, they say it can go 0 to 60 in 20 seconds, then on their website it says 25 seconds

It says it can maintain 65 mph up a hill with max allowed weight in the USA. Max allowed with how many axles? All their pictures are 5 axle, but what about 6 axle, 7 axle, 8 axle? 140000 lbs is the max allowed, not 80000 lbs.

Allot of hype. Im kinda interested in the Peterbilt stuff, thats a real world truck company who understands the needs of the truckers and companies. I would take their data to the bank.

Real world ads just like chevy / ford / ram have put out for years ....sure pull up and we'll just drop this 2500 lb load of rock into the box from 5 feet up then hook onto a 20,000llb trailer and beat the bejeasus out of it on a whooped out road then hook onto a ship and haul it up on the beach ...good luck with the warranty ....
Its called marketing and they will all do it ...
Yes there is a lot of hype but if you think electric is not going to change the game then best stick your head up your ass becasuse it is happening! Will it work in all application - maybe not but it is going to change the industry and likely more quickly than you might think .... Even ford / chev / vw (big three) plus volvo and others are pushing ahead with ev ....

 

[jhurkot]

Drove to Morinville on Thursday. Total trip distance was 501km. Used 80 kWh total. Autopilot speed set at 125-131km/h for most of the trip. My first longer trip using navigate on autopilot without lane change confirmation. It worked quite well but made a few boneheaded decisions. Over time I expect this to improve due to the huge amount of data being fed into the system (half a million cars with 8 cameras).

Stopped in red deer to charge and hit a new high for charge speed. 141kw.

 

[Caper11]

Not once did I state that a jake brake takes fuel to operate. My post only shows the amount of energy that is wasted in one. That is exactly what brakes of any kind do, take mechanical energy and turn it into heat, in the case of traditional brakes by heating the discs or drums, in the case of an engine brake by heating up the engine and the air flowing through the engine.

Clearly you will never recover as much energy in regenerative braking as was used to get up the hill, as there are friction loses from air resistance and rolling resistance, but these are typically speed dependent and apply regardless if the terrain being traveled is flat or hilly.

The energy used to increase the gravitational potential energy of the truck however is constant, and is returned on the downhill, yes some is lost due to friction but that would be there on flat ground anyway and would come from the drive train instead of from the decrease in gravitational potential energy from going downhill.

E=mgh

There is way more energy wasted with DC motor dynamic braking, it takes power and huge waste heat to use the motors as a brake.
Thats where the jake brake system works way better.

If the tesla truck allows regenerative and dynamic modes I highly doubt a driver would even use the regenerative mode.
Why would a driver shut the jakes or dynamic brakes off and use the units brakes to maintain speed down a hill.

 

[Stompin Tom]

There is way more energy wasted with DC motor dynamic braking, it takes power and huge waste heat to use the motors as a brake.
Thats where the jake brake system works way better.

If the tesla truck allows regenerative and dynamic modes I highly doubt a driver would even use the regenerative mode.
Why would a driver shut the jakes or dynamic brakes off and use the units brakes to maintain speed down a hill.

The answer is obvious if you have never been in a truck. Just let it roll, 160 kmh in a loaded truck is nothing, they corner like a 2 million dollar sports car. Screw it, regenerate the batteries, its far more important than the family in the mini van your going to demolish when you loose control going down hill.

The difference between writing it down on paper and doing it in the real world.

If an electric truck can crest a hill at a much higher speed, than the ability to slow it down going down hill is far more important and a quality jake brake is of utmost importance. One of the first thing you learn when driving a truck is to not let it roll on the hills, that is fastest way to end up dead.

 

[lilduke]

The Regen also works as a brake....


Regenerative braking is an energy recovery mechanism which slows a vehicle or object by converting its kinetic energy into a form which can be either used immediately or stored until needed. In this mechanism, the electric motor uses the vehicle's momentum to recover energy that would be otherwise lost to the brake discs as heat. This contrasts with conventional braking systems, where the excess kinetic energy is converted to unwanted and wasted heat by friction in the brakes, or with dynamic brakes, where energy is recovered by using electric motors as generators but is immediately dissipated as heat in resistors. In addition to improving the overall efficiency of the vehicle, regeneration can greatly extend the life of the braking system as its parts do not wear as quickly.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

The answer is obvious if you have never been in a truck. Just let it roll, 160 kmh in a loaded truck is nothing, they corner like a 2 million dollar sports car. Screw it, regenerate the batteries, its far more important than the family in the mini van your going to demolish when you loose control going down hill.

The difference between writing it down on paper and doing it in the real world.

If an electric truck can crest a hill at a much higher speed, than the ability to slow it down going down hill is far more important and a quality jake brake is of utmost importance. One of the first thing you learn when driving a truck is to not let it roll on the hills, that is fastest way to end up dead.

On the power or on the brake, it's not there yet especially among the heavy spec trucks but the way things are going I would not be surprised to see a electric gravel truck. Ideal for work west of the Rockies.... probably not but anything east of the Rockies or for municipal work could make sense.

 

[jhurkot]

This is what regen looks like on a energy consumption chart.

 

[Stompin Tom]

I would very much hope it could work at least as well as a Jake brake, jaking is one of the least understood safety features in trucks. One thing I know about trucking, speed kills.

 

[Stompin Tom]

On the power or on the brake, it's not there yet especially among the heavy spec trucks but the way things are going I would not be surprised to see a electric gravel truck. Ideal for work west of the Rockies.... probably not but anything east of the Rockies or for municipal work could make sense.

I strongly feel there is a place for electric trucks, especially things like p&d work in larger towns, garbage trucks, that kind of work. I personally think they are missing the target focusing on highway work.

I wonder about gravel trucks, the amount of electricity they would need for the hydraulic pumps would be a big drain?

 

[MK4TDI]

Drove to Morinville on Thursday. Total trip distance was 501km. Used 80 kWh total. Autopilot speed set at 125-131km/h for most of the trip. My first longer trip using navigate on autopilot without lane change confirmation. It worked quite well but made a few boneheaded decisions. Over time I expect this to improve due to the huge amount of data being fed into the system (half a million cars with 8 cameras).

Stopped in red deer to charge and hit a new high for charge speed. 141kw.

Wicked, looks like the system is liking/benefitting from the warmer temps.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

I strongly feel there is a place for electric trucks, especially things like p&d work in larger towns, garbage trucks, that kind of work. I personally think they are missing the target focusing on highway work.

I wonder about gravel trucks, the amount of electricity they would need for the hydraulic pumps would be a big drain?

Out west here hwy trucks are a extremely small market compared to south of the 49th parallel. I can remember the numbers for certain but large carriers in the states like ups, FedEx and purralator had orders in the thousands. Your right as they are excellent for maybe a cube can or or parcel delivery. Budweiser already has a couple fully autonomous electric rigs rolling in the states. Times are a changing and lucky for us in our neck of the woods we have more obstacles for the brains to figure out.

 

[lilduke]

yeah fully autonomous won't be a good thing if you are a truck driver.

 

[Caper11]

The Regen also works as a brake....


Regenerative braking is an energy recovery mechanism which slows a vehicle or object by converting its kinetic energy into a form which can be either used immediately or stored until needed. In this mechanism, the electric motor uses the vehicle's momentum to recover energy that would be otherwise lost to the brake discs as heat. This contrasts with conventional braking systems, where the excess kinetic energy is converted to unwanted and wasted heat by friction in the brakes, or with dynamic brakes, where energy is recovered by using electric motors as generators but is immediately dissipated as heat in resistors. In addition to improving the overall efficiency of the vehicle, regeneration can greatly extend the life of the braking system as its parts do not wear as quickly.

Freight trains use dynamic braking, with the use of air brakes. Yard electric trains and commuter trains use regenerative. The waste with heat with dynamic can and has been used to power other systems like heating the cabin.

Even with the lower range, I would use the pete just because it has a transmission. There is no transmission in the tesla and Elons comment about jackknifing is a truckers greatest fear, convinces me hes out of touch with the trucking industry. He is trying to develop a oversized car.

 

[lilduke]

I'm not saying tesla is the best thing ever, I'm just saying that regen brakes and dynamic brakes work In the exact same way only dynamic uses resistors instead of a battery.
because the train doesn't have a giant battery to charge.

 

[Stompin Tom]

I'm not saying tesla is the best thing ever, I'm just saying that regen brakes and dynamic brakes work In the exact same way only dynamic uses resistors instead of a battery.
because the train doesn't have a giant battery to charge.

Im from Texas on this,

my main concerns with electric trucks are, 1 weight, 2 range, 3 cost, 4 safety.

I have more confidence in Peterbilts work in this area because they understand trucking, its needs and its problems. Tesla on the other hand appears to be narrow sighted in this regard. Their presentations appear to be pointed to the general public rather than industry. I suspect its more about attracting investors and building up stocks.

 

[lilduke]

. I suspect its more about attracting investors and building up stocks.

true. that is what Elon musks job is though, he is a PR guy.

 

[ABMax24]

I have more confidence in Peterbilts work in this area because they understand trucking, its needs and its problems. Tesla on the other hand appears to be narrow sighted in this regard. Their presentations appear to be pointed to the general public rather than industry. I suspect its more about attracting investors and building up stocks.

Electric changes everything about the vehicle, the current generation of trucks are shaped and laid out the way they are to accommodate the power source they use and the most cost effective way to implement it.

Tesla is starting with a clean slate design as they should when almost every component in the vehicle changes. Peterbuilt's engineers are thinking outside the box while trying to get back in the box at the same time. For christ sake they hooked a 5 speed manual transmission to the electric motors and automated the clutch and shifting, they put the batteries in the same spots the fuel tanks were, used the same body and frame. Real creative thinking. That may appeal to members of "the old boys club" that are dead set on what a truck should look or operate like but could be done much more effectively. Tesla will make mistakes, they will make changes, but at least they have the balls to be the first.

 

[Cdnfireman]

Electric changes everything about the vehicle, the current generation of trucks are shaped and laid out the way they are to accommodate the power source they use and the most cost effective way to implement it.

Tesla is starting with a clean slate design as they should when almost every component in the vehicle changes. Peterbuilt's engineers are thinking outside the box while trying to get back in the box at the same time. For christ sake they hooked a 5 speed manual transmission to the electric motors and automated the clutch and shifting, they put the batteries in the same spots the fuel tanks were, used the same body and frame. Real creative thinking. That may appeal to members of "the old boys club" that are dead set on what a truck should look or operate like but could be done much more effectively. Tesla will make mistakes, they will make changes, but at least they have the balls to be the first.

Or maybe peterbuilt is trying to incorporate a new technology into existing hardware that will keep costs down, allow existing fleets to incorporate the technology faster and easier. Radical thinking isn’t always better.