membership question....

[BC Sno-Ghost]

No. I don't know exactly what each club is charging Bondhogg for an annual membership but there isn't a flat rate across the province. As far as I know each club sets its own rate. I think most areas are charging $20 right now for a trail pass but I've heard that is going up to $25 in a lot of locations.

Are all memberships generally the same price?

 

[John Cambell]

Seems the bottom line of your post is: "I want to use your facilities but I don't want to contribute"......Sell your sled, buy some snowshoes and take up winter hiking..... No charge.

That is the disgruntle attiduted I am talking about. Never did i say i did not want to contribute. I had my pass paid for last year, and did my my trail fees. So this digruntle attitude is partly what ruins this business. A proffesional business would never act that way, they would work to solve the issue.

 

[John Cambell]

So, does anybody have statistics, for the Okanagan, since that is where I sled. Statistics for how many people sled every year approx. and how much fees are brought in. How many club fees were brought in last year, as in individual numbers.? Just curious. and by the way, I fully support some type of stucture to support the club, but like i said, im a few years into the sport, and ive generally have got more bad vibes hearing other sledders talk about this whole membership thing.

 

[moyiesledhead]

So, does anybody have statistics, for the Okanagan, since that is where I sled. Statistics for how many people sled every year approx. and how much fees are brought in. How many club fees were brought in last year, as in individual numbers.? Just curious. and by the way, I fully support some type of stucture to support the club, but like i said, im a few years into the sport, and ive generally have got more bad vibes hearing other sledders talk about this whole membership thing.

The only other alternative really is to let the government look after it. Do you really think that would improve things? I sure don't. Besides, like Snowghost says, for the most part it's working very well. There's always going to be those that think they shouldn't have to pay to ride. Lowering the cost of fees isn't going to change that. And there's lots of places yet that aren't maintained and you can ride bumps all day for free. Have at 'em!

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

So, does anybody have statistics, for the Okanagan, since that is where I sled. Statistics for how many people sled every year approx. and how much fees are brought in. How many club fees were brought in last year, as in individual numbers.? Just curious. and by the way, I fully support some type of stucture to support the club, but like i said, im a few years into the sport, and ive generally have got more bad vibes hearing other sledders talk about this whole membership thing.

Yes John. Statistics are kept every year of how many memberships our club sells and how much revenue is generated via trail pass sales. On a public forum is not the place to post that material. If you really want to know join your local club and request a financial statement. Just out of interest, when you talk to other sledders about, "this whole membership thing" are you speaking with club members or the "Grumblers". Sorry if you don't find it professional of me calling them Grumblers but don't know how else to really refer to the sledders who won't be happy until they ride where ever they want for free.

 

[John Cambell]

thanks for the info, of financials. I don't find grumblers as being to harsh, when we are discussing things. I would find it a little odd when it is posted on the Okanagan snowmobile club website, for which i have seen many examples of this.

Im not honestly sure if the "grumblers" were members or not. It would have been nice to know. It was one of those things I didn't want to get into it, wether they were memeber or not.

I do totally agree as well, that "free" shouldn't be an option with the work the snowmobile clubs do. I always have an issue with the goverment trying to lay claim to these areas anyway, that should be free for everyone to use. Honestly, snowmobile clubs shouldn't even have to fight the government, but I do undertand that it is necassary, cause the goverment is famous for thinking they own everything.

 

[Summiteer]

That is the disgruntle attiduted I am talking about. Never did i say i did not want to contribute. I had my pass paid for last year, and did my my trail fees. So this digruntle attitude is partly what ruins this business. A proffesional business would never act that way, they would work to solve the issue.

Sorry, when I pay the same fees as you then go out along with several friends that also pay the same as you and spend my time trail clearing or cabin building or helping with equipment maintenance, only to hear someone that doesn't do any of that whine about the cost and peoples (club members ) bad attitudes; I tend to get a little pissy. To be honest, I think that the complainers are in the minority and if they don't like it we won't miss them (you)..... Disclaimer! The attitude expressed in this post is the attitude of Mitch only. It is NOT endorsed by Snow and Mud, the Whitecourt Trailblazers or the ASA...... Or possibly any members of the above mentioned organizations.

 

[John Cambell]

In my opinion, I think snowmobile clubs could look at ways to increase membership, without a screw you attitude. From a business standpoint, something just doesn't seem to line up. There seems to be alot of hostilty in the subject, and if its to that point, something is not quite working out. On the okanagan snowclub website, we only have 126 members. I guess it is up quite abit from last year, but 126 members going to the greystokes seems like a very low number to me. It seems there are alot more snowmobilers in my area than that.

A good example is McDonalds. ( You may say the burger is crap, but they do sell, and are very succesful) If their burgers stopped sellings, a customers stopped coming and sales were not that high, they would never say screw you to the customer, pay the burger price or don't bother coming... why? cause they would find themselves out of business.

I started sledding 3 years ago, and just love going out every weekend. I would just like to see a more positive direction for snowmobile clubs to go towards, as I truly believe that we do need the clubs. At times, it feels this subject is like a war in the middle east, so something is not quite working. I think, and I hope the snowmobile clubs are open minded and work on different methods to get everybody on board. That would be a goal.

 

[broke'n'nuts]

I think the membership question in the North Okanagan is quite a bit trickier than Mcbride, Valemount, or Whitecourt. Those clubs have an exclusive and large area all to themselves. The North Okanagan has at least 4 or 5 different clubs all within an hour drive, all with excellent sledding. I don't mind paying trail fees and I wouldn't mind paying a membership, but I can't support all the clubs. Which might be why you see lower membership levels and lots of sleds in the area. I might pay club fees if I find an area I would spend all my time in but for now I think I will just pay the trail fees and enjoy the variety. I think all the clubs are doing a great job promoting themselves and hope they keep up the good work

 

[DVRMK]

Don't overlook how much time an effort is put in by club representatives. Dealing with I don't know how many government agencies and in some cases land owners. 20 bucks is damn cheap.

 

[ferniesnow]

Sounds like somebody is fillin up their slip-tank

Another non-active member that knows all about grooming?

160 liters/groom (and we only go an average of 60 km/groom), three times/week for 4 months = 7680 liters. At $1.25/l = $9600

We have a small groomer (BR180 and pull a small drag). $12,000 isn't unreasonable at all.

 

[Boobage]

Another non-active member that knows all about grooming?

160 liters/groom (and we only go an average of 60 km/groom), three times/week for 4 months = 7680 liters. At $1.25/l = $9600

We have a small groomer (BR180 and pull a small drag). $12,000 isn't unreasonable at all.

You know me?
Just because i don't have some know-it-all answer like yourself to every post says something about how active i am?
Thanks for the math.
It was just an off hand remark. You may read into it what ever you like.

 

[John Cambell]

I think the membership question in the North Okanagan is quite a bit trickier than Mcbride, Valemount, or Whitecourt. Those clubs have an exclusive and large area all to themselves. The North Okanagan has at least 4 or 5 different clubs all within an hour drive, all with excellent sledding. I don't mind paying trail fees and I wouldn't mind paying a membership, but I can't support all the clubs. Which might be why you see lower membership levels and lots of sleds in the area. I might pay club fees if I find an area I would spend all my time in but for now I think I will just pay the trail fees and enjoy the variety. I think all the clubs are doing a great job promoting themselves and hope they keep up the good work

One good idea, and I am talking about BC, since i live in the Okanagan would be to have a slightly higher fee, but be able to use a few of the areas, example, Kelowna, being able to use greystokes, hunters range, revelstoke, or maybe an all of bc pass. I don't know how easy this would be, obviously all clubs would have to work together to achieve this. Definatly something id be interested in. Thats why I sometimes don't feel the value, because I like to explore different part of my surrounding area, and they are all fairly close to one another. I would be willing to pay a higher fee, for a multi type pass

 

[catinthehat]

One good idea, and I am talking about BC, since i live in the Okanagan would be to have a slightly higher fee, but be able to use a few of the areas, example, Kelowna, being able to use greystokes, hunters range, revelstoke, or maybe an all of bc pass. I don't know how easy this would be, obviously all clubs would have to work together to achieve this. Definatly something id be interested in. Thats why I sometimes don't feel the value, because I like to explore different part of my surrounding area, and they are all fairly close to one another. I would be willing to pay a higher fee, for a multi type pass

How do you propose this be managed? who does the money go to and where does it get spent?
I agree with Sno-Ghost if you think there is a better way for your club to be run, join up and try to do it from the inside.

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

In my opinion, I think snowmobile clubs could look at ways to increase membership, without a screw you attitude. From a business standpoint, something just doesn't seem to line up. There seems to be alot of hostilty in the subject, and if its to that point, something is not quite working out. On the okanagan snowclub website, we only have 126 members. I guess it is up quite abit from last year, but 126 members going to the greystokes seems like a very low number to me. It seems there are alot more snowmobilers in my area than that.

A good example is McDonalds. ( You may say the burger is crap, but they do sell, and are very succesful) If their burgers stopped sellings, a customers stopped coming and sales were not that high, they would never say screw you to the customer, pay the burger price or don't bother coming... why? cause they would find themselves out of business.

I started sledding 3 years ago, and just love going out every weekend. I would just like to see a more positive direction for snowmobile clubs to go towards, as I truly believe that we do need the clubs. At times, it feels this subject is like a war in the middle east, so something is not quite working. I think, and I hope the snowmobile clubs are open minded and work on different methods to get everybody on board. That would be a goal.

Some good points John. When you mention the "Okanagan Snow Club Website" are you talking about Kelowna's website? (sledkelowna.ca) Or what club is that webiste related to? I'm not familiar with it. We are very much trying to manage our club (Kelowna) like a business. Keep in mind we are all Volunteers and no one makes a cent for their efforts. A business is established to make money and that's what someone who runs the business does for a living. I work shift work so I have some extra time to put into the club as compared to someone who works 9 to 5. We keep financials and every dollar that comes in and goes out is accounted for. We can't drop the price of memberships any more. We simply can't. We charge $140 for the season, any less than that and we will not make ends meet, especially if people are side stepping trail passes. We're not making money, but we're not a charity either. I really believe all clubs across the country are trying their best but sometimes animosity does creep in when so much effort is put out by volunteers and you hear so much misinformed complaining from those who do nothing. I have to admit my skin is getting thicker though...

 

[Free Rider]

One good idea, and I am talking about BC, since i live in the Okanagan would be to have a slightly higher fee, but be able to use a few of the areas, example, Kelowna, being able to use greystokes, hunters range, revelstoke, or maybe an all of bc pass. I don't know how easy this would be, obviously all clubs would have to work together to achieve this. Definatly something id be interested in. Thats why I sometimes don't feel the value, because I like to explore different part of my surrounding area, and they are all fairly close to one another. I would be willing to pay a higher fee, for a multi type pass

This is like wanting to buy a ski pass at Big White and wanting to ski at Silver Star, Revelstoke and Sun Peaks with the same pass. It's kinda like my A$$HOLE. I just can't see it.

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

This is like wanting to buy a ski pass at Big White and wanting to ski at Silver Star, Revelstoke and Sun Peaks with the same pass. It's kinda like my A$$HOLE. I just can't see it.

Actually, combination passes were discussed at one time but it's difficult to manage. It would have to be a more than a "slightly higher fee". If you have a let's say, $200 pass that's good for 3 different riding areas, you have to divide that $200 between those 3 riding areas which amounts to around $67 per club. $67 doesn't even come close to funds that are required to support a club's financial needs. To make it worthwhile from the club's perspective's this pass would have to cost in the neighborhood of $400+. Some people might pay that but not many.

 

[John Cambell]

This is like wanting to buy a ski pass at Big White and wanting to ski at Silver Star, Revelstoke and Sun Peaks with the same pass. It's kinda like my A$$HOLE. I just can't see it.

Exactly, but did you know, you can buy a dual mountain pass to big white and silverstar. Thats were the idea came from.

 

[Free Rider]

Didn't know you could buy a dual mountain pass for Big White and Silver Star. Thanks. Are these two hills owned by the same company? If so, it makes sense but snowmobile clubs are all seperate entities are they not? That is what makes it tough to have one membership for all areas. It would be nice if was available but like I said earlier. I just can see it.

 

[tnt-salvage]

i beleive silverstar and big white are owend by the same "family" from australia, they bought big white first then bought silverstar is what i have herd? guess that why there are so many people from aus working there now. i even have a few sled customers that are from aus/work at silverstar.

and that is the exact issue i have/wanted to know when i made this post. i ride hunters cuz its close and i know my way around there really good, but im very bored of it. so i want to ride hunters/kelowna/revy?/park mountain/monashe. i dont have an issue buying a seasons pass but i think other clubs should disscount other club members/membership holders on there mountain trail passes. i think this would get other sledders to buy a membership for there local area and say 50% off on other mountains. rather then pay $20.00 per day only charge $10.00 but only if you hold a membership else where.

or have a punch card system, people like me who ride different areas. a membership for hunters range is $160.00 this year i beleive. thats 8 days of sledding. now depending on the season sure i might rider there more then 8 times but what if i travel to different areas that season and dont ride more then 8 times? i think clubs should have/keep track of guys who come in and once they have paid there 160.00 in trailpasses then they ride free just as if they bought a membership?

another BIG issue with hunters, this is not just from me but from alot of guys is they hardly groom the front side(brash/ashton creek) there constantly grooming lafarge ( i have been told this is because the pres of the club lives out that way)????? i dont feel this is fair in anyway to us who use the front side trail system. i will gladly pay if i can ride in on a nice trail and ride home on a decent trail.

when i rode revy it was great, trail groomed each day it seemed. hunters, lucky if it gets touched once a week.