membership question....

[tnt-salvage]

hey guys just a quick question. i was wondering if i buy memberships for hunters range this year for the wife and i, will this allow us to ride other areas such as park mountain, revy, golden? would we get a dicounted rate for there trail fee's? or would we still have to pay the $20.00 ? i beleie i herd last year hunters range went on there own/club, so im not sure if its worth it or not if the wife and i are planning on rididng out of town aswell. thanks guys.

 

[jbb]

where do you ride the most? if its hunters then join and show your support. and yes you have to pay for different areas

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

Ya, what JBB said. Join and support your "local" club. I'm with Kelowna every year and haven't received a discount yet at other mountains. I don't expect one either. Being on the executive for the Kelowna club the past 2 years has really opened my eyes to how much it really costs annually to run a club. Yet, a lot of people still grumble about having to purchase a trail pass. Last season, one groomer alone, over $12,000 in fuel.

 

[pipes]

Ya, what JBB said. Join and support your "local" club. I'm with Kelowna every year and haven't received a discount yet at other mountains. I don't expect one either. Being on the executive for the Kelowna club the past 2 years has really opened my eyes to how much it really costs annually to run a club. Yet, a lot of people still grumble about having to purchase a trail pass. Last season, one groomer alone, over $12,000 in fuel.

Try running a club in Alberta. You folks in BC have it better for collecting from riders that use your trails. One way in and One way out for the most part. Here in Alberta trails can be accessed from any where and we rely on an Honor system for trail passes. Not all riders feel that they need to pay the seasonal $60 for a trail pass that is good for all ASA trails in Alberta. I personally like the Idea of a user pay system and have no quams about paying the trail fee's in BC. I joined the Mcbride snowmobile club with a donation of $500.00 and I don't expect any discount at the entrances to their trail systems. I think that more riders have to buck up and start paying their way to use the trail system be it in BC or Alberta.

 

[Shadam]

Golden snowmoblie association has 3 groomed trails, gorman, quartz and silent pass. there is another trail that costs $10 a day and is groomed by a snowmobile tour company but the GSA membership is not valid there. some people bitch about that, but they don't pay the fuel bill for a groomer.

We all know how quickly our big mtn sleds distroy the trails.

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

Ya, no doubt Pipes that must be hard to monitor. We have that same problem here in our two riding areas as well. Maybe not to the extent that you have in the prairies but what I find funny about the people who enter the maintained areas from outside the trailheads is how far they will drive to avoid paying for a trail pass. They'll burn an extra $20, or more, in fuel to avoid a $20 trail pass. Yet they wind up using our cabins, burning our firewood and taking advantage of our 250kms of groomed trails. This year we're gonna have trail patrols to get on these people and try to educate them as to why we do charge for area usage. They seem to think the club executive is getting rich or something....

Try running a club in Alberta. You folks in BC have it better for collecting from riders that use your trails. One way in and One way out for the most part. Here in Alberta trails can be accessed from any where and we rely on an Honor system for trail passes. Not all riders feel that they need to pay the seasonal $60 for a trail pass that is good for all ASA trails in Alberta. I personally like the Idea of a user pay system and have no quams about paying the trail fee's in BC. I joined the Mcbride snowmobile club with a donation of $500.00 and I don't expect any discount at the entrances to their trail systems. I think that more riders have to buck up and start paying their way to use the trail system be it in BC or Alberta.

 

[superduty 348]

I ride in different areas of BC and pay my share of trail fees but I have one question , why do different clubs charge different rates? some $10 some $20 why is that?

 

[Boobage]

Ya, what JBB said. Join and support your "local" club. I'm with Kelowna every year and haven't received a discount yet at other mountains. I don't expect one either. Being on the executive for the Kelowna club the past 2 years has really opened my eyes to how much it really costs annually to run a club. Yet, a lot of people still grumble about having to purchase a trail pass. Last season, one groomer alone, over $12,000 in fuel.

Sounds like somebody is fillin up their slip-tank

 

[jackinthebox]

Sounds like somebody is fillin up their slip-tank

No doubt.i'm with this guy.,

 

[sleded700]

Im all for paying to play, but what I dont like is daily trail passes and other crap for areas that you are not accessing on a groomed trail. If you have an alternative way to access an area it should be your choice if you want to pay $20 bucks to ride a groomed trail or not.

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

Sounds like somebody is fillin up their slip-tank

There you go. Prime example of how people don't understand the concept of how high costs run to keep a club running. The fuel tank is 15 kms up our first trail. Only accessible by sleds. If someone was driving their truck with a slip tank up our groomed trails, I think we'd know. Tank is always locked and every time we use it we have to clean snow off it. There would be a lot tips that someone was stealing fuel if indeed it was happening. That $12,000 I mentioned is only fuel for one of our groomers. The other one took over $4000. We have 250 kms of trails to groom in two areas. The main groomer runs sometimes 4 days a week during the high season. Its a big groomer, PB 280 pulling a large implement. The second groomer is smaller and maintains a smaller area and doesn't run as frequently.

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

"m all for paying to play, but what I dont like is daily trail passes and other crap for areas that you are not accessing on a groomed trail. If you have an alternative way to access an area it should be your choice if you want to pay $20 bucks to ride a groomed trail or not".



This is an argument we hear a lot from people who don't understand where their money for trail passes goes. You need to talk to your local club executive and get a financial report to see what is really involved in annual expenses. Grooming is only one of the many annual expenses for a sled club. You may not ride on the groomed trail, which I don't personally believe, everyone does, but you are riding in a maintained area which clubs have rallied and fought to keep accessible as a recreation area. I'll bet you use the cabins and the firewood......And if you don't use them regularly, I'll bet you would if you had to spend the night up there. There is cabin maintenance, cabin insurance, membership costs for the club to belong to the BCSF and a whole lot more. I suggest you get a financial report from your local club. It will really open your eyes.

 

[Shadam]

2 sides to the story.

several guys I know have been riding trails around here all thier life.
these guys all sled form thier house often with friends and kidz.

15 years ago or so, a snowmobile tour company started grooming some trails for their little 380's on guided tours.


now the owner wants them and us to pay $10 a day per sled and stay on the trails and not tear it all up.


along comes my crazy crew, we build trails that have allowed this company to take guests to the ridge line. never before have any guests been there.
we have already started putting in the trails this season saving him time and money.
he is not afiliated with golden snowmobile association.

 

[moyiesledhead]

2 sides to the story.

15 years ago or so, a snowmobile tour company started grooming some trails for their little 380's on guided tours.


now the owner wants them and us to pay $10 a day per sled and stay on the trails and not tear it all up.

A commercial recreatiion tenure doesn't allow him to do that. It only allows him to charge for snowmobile tours with his clients. Unless he has a management agreement with the Government over that trail system he doesn't have the legal right to charge you to use the trail. Contact Lisa Cox, Recreation Sites & Trails Branch, Ministry of Forests in Cranbrook. 250-426-1763 She should be able to tell you what his legal rights are. If that doesn't work call Harry Mitchell 250-426-1767. He's the one that approves Commercial Rec Tenures. Maybe the guy doesn't even have one. Pretty common around here.

 

[catinthehat]

Im all for paying to play, but what I dont like is daily trail passes and other crap for areas that you are not accessing on a groomed trail. If you have an alternative way to access an area it should be your choice if you want to pay $20 bucks to ride a groomed trail or not.

If you are accessing an area that is within a management agreement it shouldn't matter if you ride the groomed trails or not, that club has spent many hours and probably many dollars in order to keep the area open for riding.
Even if you are riding an area outside the management agreement there is a good chance the local club has had to spend time and resources to protect it for you as well.
From personal experience I know that anywhere in the East Kootenays you ride a local club has had to fight at least once for it. Unless you only ride private property you need to thank someone(usually volunteers ) for the good time.

 

[Bondhogg]

Are all memberships generally the same price?

 

[John Cambell]

Has any one in these clubs, thought of any alternative approaches to the whole membership thing? Im fairly new to sledding, but I often hear the same old argument. It seems like the current approach isn't working to well. Maybe fees are to high? Not sure, just asking. Would you get better response by lowering fees?

I do snowmobile clubs side of this, the building and maintaining of cabins, its nice they protect the areas. etc etc. I don't think its a matter of not appreciating. Personally, I compare it to hiking or mountain biking in a sense, and i don't pay a dime for that. Snowmobiling is one of the only engine like machines that are allowed by the government on the trans canada trail because as long as we are not running over trees, it does not tear up the ground unlike 4 x 4 etc.

Maybe take the walmart approach. Drop the prices a little, get more people on board. groom less trails, only groom what you can pay for etc. only build cabins what you can afford etc. It would be nice to hear other thoughts. I often find it annoying how some clubs act, like they have bought all the land, and its my way or the highway approach. Ive seen some unproffesionalism even on my local okanagan snowmobile club website that shocks me. A club almost reminds me of a proffesional business, and some of the stuff I see on websites shocks me a little. Letters posted on websites are often threating to people that "do not obey" Anyways, just some thoughts as a new "Customer". If we heard more "Customer" feed back, im sure we could steer this club thing in more of a positive direction.

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

I'm not sure why you think the "current approach isn't working"? It's working great all across the country. You have a handful of people who don't understand, and honestly probably don't care about the expense involved in running a snowmobile club. Just because they grumble about having to buck up like everyone else across Canada doesn't mean it's not working. You don't pay a dime for hiking or biking because there aren't Government agreements and tenures in place with a club or organization to maintain your biking and hiking trails. If there was, you'd pay. I dirt bike in a local area where I have ridden for years. In comes the dirt bike club, does a ton of work on the trails and now I have to pay. That's just the way it is. To me it's well worth it if I want to ride there. There's a lot of other "unmaintained" areas I can ride if I don't want to pay. But, I understand if I ride there, I pay and do so without grumbling. The "Walmart approach" gets the Walmart result. You get what you pay for. Walmart sells junk. If we lower the price of memberships more people will not join. It's been tried. Less income means less grooming which means more complaining and in turn less memberships sold the following year. Their gripe becomes legitimate..."You don't groom so why should I buy a membership"? Also, regarding the cabins, if you don't have shelters for people to get inside, dry out and warm up they are going to request them ...why? Because they pay for a membership and shelters are expected. Shelters are also there for the safety of sledders. When you have hundreds of square miles of riding area, one shelter will not be enough. You're right, a club is like a business, only difference is no one in the club is making money. I personally fork out hundreds of dollars of my own money every year as a volunteer for fuel for my truck to access and maintain areas in the off season. Do I get paid or my membership for nothing? No. The money raised goes back into the club to keep the club afloat by covering expenses. And finally the "Threat" to those who don't pay is, by law you are subject to a fine for using a maintained area without purchasing a membership or trail pass. You bring up some valid points and I understand. If you are truly interested in having a voice and making some suggestions to improve your club's efficiency, join your local club and get on the executive. New blood and new ideas are always welcome.

Has any one in these clubs, thought of any alternative approaches to the whole membership thing? Im fairly new to sledding, but I often hear the same old argument. It seems like the current approach isn't working to well. Maybe fees are to high? Not sure, just asking. Would you get better response by lowering fees?

I do snowmobile clubs side of this, the building and maintaining of cabins, its nice they protect the areas. etc etc. I don't think its a matter of not appreciating. Personally, I compare it to hiking or mountain biking in a sense, and i don't pay a dime for that. Snowmobiling is one of the only engine like machines that are allowed by the government on the trans canada trail because as long as we are not running over trees, it does not tear up the ground unlike 4 x 4 etc.

Maybe take the walmart approach. Drop the prices a little, get more people on board. groom less trails, only groom what you can pay for etc. only build cabins what you can afford etc. It would be nice to hear other thoughts. I often find it annoying how some clubs act, like they have bought all the land, and its my way or the highway approach. Ive seen some unproffesionalism even on my local okanagan snowmobile club website that shocks me. A club almost reminds me of a proffesional business, and some of the stuff I see on websites shocks me a little. Letters posted on websites are often threating to people that "do not obey" Anyways, just some thoughts as a new "Customer". If we heard more "Customer" feed back, im sure we could steer this club thing in more of a positive direction.

 

[Poocandoo]

You can always ride in Ontario, if you buy a trail pass. Don't buy and the cops fine you or impound your sled. Keep up with the selfish me attitude and wreck all the work that "ALL CLUBS DO". One day when you wake up to go riding you will find the government has closed all riding areas. The granola crunching tree hugger will have a LARGER number of people in their club and the 2000 registered club sledders in BC will lose our rights to the mountains. All because there are 10,000 sledders to cheap and lazy to think about the future. Ps then what do you do with your jacked up Duramax?

 

[Summiteer]

Has any one in these clubs, thought of any alternative approaches to the whole membership thing? Im fairly new to sledding, but I often hear the same old argument. It seems like the current approach isn't working to well. Maybe fees are to high? Not sure, just asking. Would you get better response by lowering fees?

I do snowmobile clubs side of this, the building and maintaining of cabins, its nice they protect the areas. etc etc. I don't think its a matter of not appreciating. Personally, I compare it to hiking or mountain biking in a sense, and i don't pay a dime for that. Snowmobiling is one of the only engine like machines that are allowed by the government on the trans canada trail because as long as we are not running over trees, it does not tear up the ground unlike 4 x 4 etc.

Maybe take the walmart approach. Drop the prices a little, get more people on board. groom less trails, only groom what you can pay for etc. only build cabins what you can afford etc. It would be nice to hear other thoughts. I often find it annoying how some clubs act, like they have bought all the land, and its my way or the highway approach. Ive seen some unproffesionalism even on my local okanagan snowmobile club website that shocks me. A club almost reminds me of a proffesional business, and some of the stuff I see on websites shocks me a little. Letters posted on websites are often threating to people that "do not obey" Anyways, just some thoughts as a new "Customer". If we heard more "Customer" feed back, im sure we could steer this club thing in more of a positive direction.

Seems the bottom line of your post is: "I want to use your facilities but I don't want to contribute"......Sell your sled, buy some snowshoes and take up winter hiking..... No charge.