Looking for feedback on contractor/supplier safety pre qualifications and programs

[maxwell]

recently a couple of our customers have been switching to using safety pre-qualification companies.

from my research there are 3 main ones here in alberta that are commonly used.

1. Avetta
2. complyworks
3. ISnetworld

also looks like CanQual is a company that will apply and maintain all 3 of those for you.

this is a 20,000$ + investment for a company of my size for all 3 and currently the customers that are using Avetta now it would not be worth it to sign up for us just for them.

SO my question is.....have you or your company gained work by being pre qualified on these?
is it worth having all 3?

i would like to start going after some larger contracts as well and it looks like some of the bigger oil companies require this.

Anything you can share would be great

Thanks!

 

[Caper11]

Avetta is the main one that major companies use to get a vendor/contractor on the approved vendor/contractor list.
Yes this is a major investment, and Some companies will not even look at a contractor if they dont have this safety program.

I remember when this came out over 10 years ago and it was about 10g than.
I cannot recall what that program was called at the moment but avetta took that company over.
As far as I know, all of the major oil companies require this type of safety program for their vendors/contractors.

I guess im wondering Sean do you see all of your customers potentially going to this system in the future???

 

[gunner3006]

I use comply works for my company. Pretty easy to deal with and maintain your company profile. ISN is in a league all of its own. You will invest a lot of time, and money to become compliant thru them. Unless you have a customer that is always using you for work and can 100% guarantee you business I would not waste my time. My company is small, but I am also COR certified. I mention that because I really thought it would speed up the process. It did not. My broker does not like dealing with them as they are very demanding and will not green light your profile until everything is perfect. I have over 60 hrs as well as countless trips to broker and fees paid to ISN to become compliant for a large customer. I do have a safety program that was done professionally by a 3 party safety company and it didn’t seem to matter much.

Cheers
Chadd

 

[Brojoe]

I can’t speak about Alberta but in Saskatchewan third party safety programs are becoming the norm. We can’t get onsite unless we are a member of a safety program.
We are COR certified, but hold memberships for 5 different companies : ISNet, SMI, Browz,Avetta and contractor check. This is the cost of doing business with our clients. We build it into the price and hope we get the work. It would be nice if they all subscribed to the same program.
It’s very expensive to get started but relatively easy to maintain and update.

 

[snochuk]

We work with Shell, Syncrude, Suncor, CNRL, Devon Energy ect and all of our subs as well as us must be ISNet prequalled to work on site.
As with any Oil and Gas if you want to be a General or Prime you will prequalled up the wazu but the crowd is also a lot smaller for competition.
We are in competition with Graham, Ledcor, Kewit, Clarke, Ellis Don , PCL ect.
Depending on who your bulk of clients are, what they require, is best how you make your choice.
There is definatly a cost to this as well as the direct HSE Program you need to maintain.
What do you need to head your company in the direction you want?
More importantly what do your clients require/demand to allow you to bid on their projects.

 

[maxwell]

Avetta is the main one that major companies use to get a vendor/contractor on the approved vendor/contractor list.
Yes this is a major investment, and Some companies will not even look at a contractor if they dont have this safety program.

I remember when this came out over 10 years ago and it was about 10g than.
I cannot recall what that program was called at the moment but avetta took that company over.
As far as I know, all of the major oil companies require this type of safety program for their vendors/contractors.

I guess im wondering Sean do you see all of your customers potentially going to this system in the future???

Currently only ONE. seems the big utility companies are the only ones. We do not do oil and gas or plant work. But as of now Epcor and Telus are both required Avetta.

For the work we do for general contractors they only require COR.

 

[maxwell]

I use comply works for my company. Pretty easy to deal with and maintain your company profile. ISN is in a league all of its own. You will invest a lot of time, and money to become compliant thru them. Unless you have a customer that is always using you for work and can 100% guarantee you business I would not waste my time. My company is small, but I am also COR certified. I mention that because I really thought it would speed up the process. It did not. My broker does not like dealing with them as they are very demanding and will not green light your profile until everything is perfect. I have over 60 hrs as well as countless trips to broker and fees paid to ISN to become compliant for a large customer. I do have a safety program that was done professionally by a 3 party safety company and it didn’t seem to matter much.

Cheers
Chadd

similar background to what i did aswell. Had a safety consultant Create our safety program and get our COR. we maintain that internally.

but yes looking into these others that does not seem to matter

 

[maxwell]

We work with Shell, Syncrude, Suncor, CNRL, Devon Energy ect and all of our subs as well as us must be ISNet prequalled to work on site.
As with any Oil and Gas if you want to be a General or Prime you will prequalled up the wazu but the crowd is also a lot smaller for competition.
We are in competition with Graham, Ledcor, Kewit, Clarke, Ellis Don , PCL ect.
Depending on who your bulk of clients are, what they require, is best how you make your choice.
There is definatly a cost to this as well as the direct HSE Program you need to maintain.
What do you need to head your company in the direction you want?
More importantly what do your clients require/demand to allow you to bid on their projects.

Interesting.

Currrently dont require any of these to bid for our current customers. But if we want to continue doing work for telus and epcor ( small amount) we will need avetta. The dollar amount we do for those companies wouldnt even cover half the cost so this is why im up in the air.

However i would like to get in with some of the bigger oil and gas companies so if thats what i have to do then im ok with that.

 

[174mcx]

I'm on all three and its a major PITA, I have a full time employee working on them constantly. You need them to be considered for the work but I've never seen where they have got me any work. Same as alot of the the safety ideas, its visual, does it actually make your safety system function better...No... simply paper to push. Much the same as headlights on a Nascar (stickers)

 

[pfi572]

It’s just another cash grab that creates more employment , more cash flow, for taxes that the contractors have to eat the cost within rates or quotes.
I work for major and junior oil companies and the juniors are so much better .

 

[Indy245]

I have all three of those you listed and not once have I gotten work because of being pre-qualified. There is even a case where we are green lighted and on the companies preferred vendor list and have yet to get work from those guys. I agree Junior OG companies are far better to work for (if they pay which is whole other can of worms).

 

[gunner3006]

You absolutely have to incorporate the cost of it in your rates. My issue is there is no guarantee for work. No different then gambling I suppose.

 

[snochuk]

Currently only ONE. seems the big utility companies are the only ones. We do not do oil and gas or plant work. But as of now Epcor and Telus are both required Avetta.

For the work we do for general contractors they only require COR.

If you want to work directly for the big O&G owners it is a requirement to be current on ISNet or CanQual in order to bid or even be a subtrade.
We create mitigation plans when needed for our subs but the pre-qual is theirs.
We consistently use the same subs if they are performing well.
Get in with a general is a must for smaller business.
Depends what direction and how much work you are going to actually do.

As all say it is cost and time consuming, we have full time staff just for this.
I have worked for the same company for the last 32 years and it is requirement to be current or you are out - not even allowed to bid.
And you must stay current during project or you get a notice letter real fast.
Then again we do about 1.4B a year across Canada.

What do you do?

 

[MarkCos]

It’s a joke / money grab for company’s in California and NJ and so on
once you make the hire list and are not hired in a year or so u get put on the No hire list then must pay $ to renew. Lol wtf
you would think cor would be enough but these big company’s can’t evan have in house people that work with contractors to build relationships /support communities in city’s or Alberta and prequalifi you to register with them in house .
to then have a fair cycling of there own list for quick call jobs and proper and fair tendering afterwords


i have bid on projects with TELUS and ledcor only to find out the coordinator of them at the time quit went and bought equipment or into another company to do the project them selves for personal gain,
they continue to work for there friends that are still in the utility company
it’s a mess out there in last 10 years it has become like Quebec here
buddy buddy BS and who’s dxxk u suck to prove you are the right company for the job
I won’t do this anymore
payment is another joke of 90 days from US company also

just be ready to bankroll it all for them all summer with no interest and bad contractor scheduling that puts ur billing behind
Lol
this year will will be a hard one I think a lot of company’s are dropping quotes down by 25% just to find work

 

[Indy245]

You absolutely have to incorporate the cost of it in your rates. My issue is there is no guarantee for work. No different then gambling I suppose.

Our rates are directly competitive with companies that either don't have the programs and work exclusively for companies that don't require it or with companies that only need one. Increasing our rates would see a reduction in work so we have been told, we have the big three compliance programs so we can try to increase volume to pay for the increase in operating costs. Not quite as simple as incorporating into rates.

 

[Indy245]

If you want to work directly for the big O&G owners it is a requirement to be current on ISNet or CanQual in order to bid or even be a subtrade.
We create mitigation plans when needed for our subs but the pre-qual is theirs.
We consistently use the same subs if they are performing well.
Get in with a general is a must for smaller business.
Depends what direction and how much work you are going to actually do.



As all say it is cost and time consuming, we have full time staff just for this.
I have worked for the same company for the last 32 years and it is requirement to be current or you are out - not even allowed to bid.
And you must stay current during project or you get a notice letter real fast.
Then again we do about 1.4B a year across Canada.

What do you do?

You forgot ComplyWorks, CNRL requires it. I have worked in management in the hiring/project end, we did have an exemption for a lot of companies based on risk. Also a multi-billion dollar a year company.

 

[ducati]

We are on ISN and Comply Works because we are forced to by clients for “prequalification”, the big issue is that we end up having to send all of the same information with every bid package anyways as the same companies that force the use of ISN and CW also request that info in RFQ packages so they don’t have to go online and check. Major PITA.

 

[lilduke]

recently a couple of our customers have been switching to using safety pre-qualification companies.

from my research there are 3 main ones here in alberta that are commonly used.

1. Avetta
2. complyworks
3. ISnetworld

also looks like CanQual is a company that will apply and maintain all 3 of those for you.

this is a 20,000$ + investment for a company of my size for all 3 and currently the customers that are using Avetta now it would not be worth it to sign up for us just for them.

SO my question is.....have you or your company gained work by being pre qualified on these?
is it worth having all 3?

i would like to start going after some larger contracts as well and it looks like some of the bigger oil companies require this.

Anything you can share would be great

Thanks!

Yeah you pretty much need to jump through the hoops to get work on big projects now a days.

We(my families company) have a guy working full time on safety stuff in conjunction with a 3rd party company that does what ever they do.
We're really busy so I guess its working lol

 

[gunner3006]

Our rates are directly competitive with companies that either don't have the programs and work exclusively for companies that don't require it or with companies that only need one. Increasing our rates would see a reduction in work so we have been told, we have the big three compliance programs so we can try to increase volume to pay for the increase in operating costs. Not quite as simple as incorporating into rates.

“So you’ve been told” that actually sounds like a corporate comment. I hear what your saying though. There is more than one way to skin a cat. I’m a small company an work for several different customers. So having someone full time doing safety to make me compliant for one customer is not worth it. As someone mentioned above, it’s a huge crock.

 

[MarkCos]

Some days I think F it
it would be cheaper to just go sledding instead of going to work today
lol