looking at new desiels

[bigdaddy35]

I personally wouldn't ever touch a non Cummins diesel, GM and Ford have had so many issues with 100% of their diesels in the last 10 years they just aren't relieable for real miles. And if you plan to keep it forever and put some power down, by prepared to pay some big coin if you go with a V8 diesel, they are nothing like a I6. There is a reason the cummins is so much heavier.

As you can tell i'm a bit bias :d The dodge part isn't the best but it's ok, the cummins makes it the best bar none. Doesn't matter what anyone says, it has been proven to death the cummins 5.9 is the best pickup diesel engine ever built.

Gee, I'll have to disagree... in part

The 5.9 cummins is very strong, but GM and Ford haven't had issues with 100% of their diesels in the last 10 years. The Ford 7.3L is bomb proof. It's simple and has lots of room for additional power (the tranny on the other hand can't handle the torque the 7.3L can put out). I have a 2000 7.3L with nearly 350,000 km and it's never let me down. My miles are hard (towing heavy loads close to max). I agree the early 6.0L have had issues with their heads/cooling from '03 to '06. Duramax off the lot is by far the strongest (partially because of that nice little allison tranny they stuck behind it). The 5.9 and 7.3L both need upgrades just to match what the duramax has stock.


Now, if you want the engine capabilities AND comfort/luxury...Dodge isn't my first choice IMHO. .

 

[thebigm]

Anybody got any popcorn? :d Cummins all the way!!!! :d

 

[sledslut]

Gee, I'll have to disagree... in part

The 5.9 cummins is very strong, but GM and Ford haven't had issues with 100% of their diesels in the last 10 years. The Ford 7.3L is bomb proof. It's simple and has lots of room for additional power (the tranny on the other hand can't handle the torque the 7.3L can put out). I have a 2000 7.3L with nearly 350,000 km and it's never let me down. My miles are hard (towing heavy loads close to max). I agree the early 6.0L have had issues with their heads/cooling from '03 to '06. Duramax off the lot is by far the strongest (partially because of that nice little allison tranny they stuck behind it). The 5.9 and 7.3L both need upgrades just to match what the duramax has stock.


Now, if you want the engine capabilities AND comfort/luxury...Dodge isn't my first choice IMHO. .

I have to agree and dissagree, the cummings 6.7l. the trany thats it comes with is way better and can actually hold up to more abuse. taking from oil field abuse to trucks. the chev i dono i personally wouldnt ever own one other then for the seats in the truck..

that 2010 Heavy Duty Dodge's are sick looking way niver then the chev. heated steering wheel is amazing, as well as ac in the seats, backup camera on the ones with nav. :d
new fords looks wicked too but not as bullet proof as the other compitition

 

[Luke The Drifter]

I am guessing you do not have a cummins ??

Actually I own two of them. A 93' and an 04'

 

[Cyle]

V diesels aren't "crap" but they are crap compared to a inline. Less moving parts=less wear=longer life there is NO more clear way to put it. V engine in a pickup has NO advantage unless you are worried about a few extra hundred pounds. A inline engine will last longer and is far superior in EVERYWAY.

Like I said the 7.3 powerstroke is the ONLY motor ford has put in their diesels that isn't a complete POS. I figured it ended in 99 so I said 10 years, whatever. The duramax has never been a good engine. Every single version has problems.

Funny how duramax and powerstroke change every few years with pretty much a brand new engine. The cummins 5.9 didn't change that much for almost 20 years. I wonder why? It's not uncommon to see a 12v with 1,000,000km on it, most outlast the truck, not that anyone can complain about a million km.

Why change something good. Ford and GM couldn't get it right and started with a fresh build each time and still can't get it right.

Ford's are a lot nicer truck inside I will say, but under the hood were it counts you can't beat the cummins.

As far as trannies, all autos are junk in pickups for any amount of abuse. Standard or built auto is the ONLY way to go.

 

[ST1]

V diesels aren't "crap" but they are crap compared to a inline. Less moving parts=less wear=longer life there is NO more clear way to put it. V engine in a pickup has NO advantage unless you are worried about a few extra hundred pounds. A inline engine will last longer and is far superior in EVERYWAY.

Like I said the 7.3 powerstroke is the ONLY motor ford has put in their diesels that isn't a complete POS. I figured it ended in 99 so I said 10 years, whatever. The duramax has never been a good engine. Every single version has problems.

Funny how duramax and powerstroke change every few years with pretty much a brand new engine. The cummins 5.9 didn't change that much for almost 20 years. I wonder why? It's not uncommon to see a 12v with 1,000,000km on it, most outlast the truck, not that anyone can complain about a million km.

Why change something good. Ford and GM couldn't get it right and started with a fresh build each time and still can't get it right.

Ford's are a lot nicer truck inside I will say, but under the hood were it counts you can't beat the cummins.

As far as trannies, all autos are junk in pickups for any amount of abuse. Standard or built auto is the ONLY way to go.

Is this a discussion about which diesel motor is best? or which diesel truck is best?

I'm not biased to either of the 3, but the 6.4 Powerstroke engine/trans combo shouldn't be overlooked as far as durability and huge power potential goes (with the stock internals). The fit, finish and overall layout of the GM interior is my current favourite, and the inline 6 concept of the Cummins is proven for durability and being mod friendly (the 5.9 4 speed auto, not so much).


That being said, all of the new trucks (6.6LMM, 6.4 Pstroke and 6.7 Cummins) suffer drastically from the DPF exhaust setup. Once removed and tuned properly, all 3 diesel engines perform as they should!

You might want to consider test driving all 3 on the same day to form your own opinion. Let us know what you decide,

Cheers,

Steve@stripetech.com (logged on to Justin's s&m account)

 

[GasCan]

Is this a discussion about which diesel motor is best? or which diesel truck is best?

I'm not biased to either of the 3, but the 6.4 Powerstroke engine/trans combo shouldn't be overlooked as far as durability and huge power potential goes (with the stock internals). The fit, finish and overall layout of the GM interior is my current favourite, and the inline 6 concept of the Cummins is proven for durability and being mod friendly (the 5.9 4 speed auto, not so much).


That being said, all of the new trucks (6.6LMM, 6.4 Pstroke and 6.7 Cummins) suffer drastically from the DPF exhaust setup. Once removed and tuned properly, all 3 diesel engines perform as they should!

You might want to consider test driving all 3 on the same day to form your own opinion. Let us know what you decide,

Cheers,

Steve@stripetech.com (logged on to Justin's s&m account)

That's some good advice Steve. I did test the Ford F350 Power Stroke the same day I tested the GM K2500HD but in the end I was won over from GM's interior appointments (wickedly comfortable). In fairness, I did not test the Dodge product so can't say anything there. The K2500 is an awesome riding truck and now that I have had your guys work out the math on the induction/exhaust systems, this LMM Duramax is one serious daily driver making 455hp/850tq (great power at a decent price). Very impressed with your guys, and with Chris for his knowledge of performance diesels. Thanks for hooking up my new truck!

G

 

[Sleeper700]

There are a lot of things that have been overlooked by most of the posters in this thread. It isn't just about the engine of a truck in my opinion. I am very bias toward GM trucks for the following reason: No other manufacturer makes a more comfortable ride, ergonomic dash, or simple/powerful/good looking controls. I have never had any major problems with the Duramax engines on 2 trucks that I have had, and have never sat on the side of the road with either one. I am not looking to have insane power, and don't plan on having my truck longer than 200000km. This makes me disregard any dodge or ford options, as they just don't have the finesse of the GM. Until a duramax lets me down, or one of the other 2 makes a decent truck that I can drive long trips comfortably in, I will NEVER think about switching brands. Just my 2cents

 

[summit889]

V diesels aren't "crap" but they are crap compared to a inline. Less moving parts=less wear=longer life there is NO more clear way to put it. V engine in a pickup has NO advantage unless you are worried about a few extra hundred pounds. A inline engine will last longer and is far superior in EVERYWAY.

Like I said the 7.3 powerstroke is the ONLY motor ford has put in their diesels that isn't a complete POS. I figured it ended in 99 so I said 10 years, whatever. The duramax has never been a good engine. Every single version has problems.

Funny how duramax and powerstroke change every few years with pretty much a brand new engine. The cummins 5.9 didn't change that much for almost 20 years. I wonder why? It's not uncommon to see a 12v with 1,000,000km on it, most outlast the truck, not that anyone can complain about a million km.

Why change something good. Ford and GM couldn't get it right and started with a fresh build each time and still can't get it right.

Ford's are a lot nicer truck inside I will say, but under the hood were it counts you can't beat the cummins.

As far as trannies, all autos are junk in pickups for any amount of abuse. Standard or built auto is the ONLY way to go.

Always love the uninformed diesel people on snowmobile websites. please tell me all new from scratch changes that were made on the duramax motors.

 

[maxwell]

standard diesels are not fun to drive at any time and on the track it just cuts down your time i would think. in my opinion anyways. the new transmissions shift so amazing and smooth. cant take the power like the manual i suppose.

 

[08summit]

I really like the Duramax...I drive a new Dodge and never complain about driving in a buddies Ford... So I'm really not Bias but one small complaint I see with the new Duramax`that was suppose too be taken care of this yr is the truck freezing up @ the intake and going into limp mode whenever the temperature is below -20. I had 2 freeze up last night and have one right now stuck here on location in "limp mode" and don't tell me GM has a fix for this as all these trucks have been in once already this week for the problem and all are froze up again already...lol. Not bashing but just stating this is still a real problem for them...Oh and the crappy fuel mileage they get.

 

[mb1]

Firstl of all, THERE IS NO "G" IN CUMMINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cyle is pretty horny about the I6 blah blah blah..... sure it's a great motor, but the reality is that most people do not drive a rig with more than 250k.

Yeah the IFS isn't as strong as a SFA, but most people drive on highways ( that's where I see the most trucks anyways ) and Chevys have the best ride. Dodge has had it's share of front end issues.

Ford had so many issues with the 6.slow that it's taking untill now for people to realize that the 6.4 is a capable and may not have as many problems as people thought when they first came out. Now IMO it's time to stand back again and see what happens with their new 6.7.

These are questions that will help you decide.

How long will I keep the truck?
Will I put on 35" or bigger tires?
Will I go wheeling with the truck?


Find a dealer that people like. There are plenty of them that are poor enough to ruin a persons experience with a brand.

 

[08summit]

Firstl of all, THERE IS NO "G" IN CUMMINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cyle is pretty horny about the I6 blah blah blah..... sure it's a great motor, but the reality is that most people do not drive a rig with more than 250k.

Yeah the IFS isn't as strong as a SFA, but most people drive on highways ( that's where I see the most trucks anyways ) and Chevys have the best ride. Dodge has had it's share of front end issues.

Ford had so many issues with the 6.slow that it's taking untill now for people to realize that the 6.4 is a capable and may not have as many problems as people thought when they first came out. Now IMO it's time to stand back again and see what happens with their new 6.7.

These are questions that will help you decide.









How long will I keep the truck?
Will I put on 35" or bigger tires?
Will I go wheeling with the truck?


Find a dealer that people like. There are plenty of them that are poor enough to ruin a persons experience with a brand.

Finding a good dealer is one of the most importantant things for me...no matter what you buy you may or may not have problems but if and when you do good service is awesome. I am not brand loyal but my last 5 trucks were all Dodges ONLY because I have recieved exceptional service through my dealer...I looked long and hard @ the Chevy and Ford this yr but in the end I wasn't quite sure I would get the service I'm used to. That being said one bad experience with my dealership and I will have one of the other 2 brands parked in the driveway. Anybody will give you a deal when selling you a new truck right now but ask around to make sure you are going to get good service.

 

[thebigm]

I thought being a "Dealer" I would chime in after reading through these posts. There are some very important comments and opinions made over who has the best this or the best that. "08Summit" hit the nail on the head. All of the big three make good product, it does in most cases come down to personal preference and/or price. But finding the right dealer that doesn't drop the ball or the customer after the sale should be the goal, whatever brand of vehicle. I could blow some biased smoke up your a$$ about why Dodge is better that the competition but there is something more important, customer satisfaction. So my advice is find a dealer in your area that will honor their comittment to earning your business, long after the sale.

Cheers,

Mike Stuckless

Dealer Principal
Eagle River Chrysler

 

[mb1]

Finding a good dealer is one of the most importantant things for me...no matter what you buy you may or may not have problems but if and when you do good service is awesome. I am not brand loyal but my last 5 trucks were all Dodges ONLY because I have recieved exceptional service through my dealer...I looked long and hard @ the Chevy and Ford this yr but in the end I wasn't quite sure I would get the service I'm used to. That being said one bad experience with my dealership and I will have one of the other 2 brands parked in the driveway. Anybody will give you a deal when selling you a new truck right now but ask around to make sure you are going to get good service.

Yes well said. I bought my truck from the states and saved enough money that I will do most repairs on my own rather than try to go through warranty anyways. I went to a dealer near my place and they were good with one issue ( rear end ) then next time they made a stink about a couple known issues with my truck, and damaged it to boot.

Anyways, I wouldn't buy from that dealer, but a buddy had a bunch of problems with his dealer on his dodge, and the only other guy I know with a 6.4 has had nothing but trouble with his truck - not sure about how the dealer has been - so anyways, right now if I had to buy another rig I'd go used again and do my own thing rather than fight with a dealer.

You can pay for a lot of repairs out of pocket with the $20k you'd save buying a truck that's at the end of its warranty.

 

[summit7]

From personal experience you cannot beat the Ford for cab comfort and truck quality,but engine wise,especially the 6.4l they are crap.ford quit making a reliable engine with the last 7.3l.As a Ford Master diesel tech,my next truck will be my current 2003 F350 7.3l,till it wont run anymore.

 

[Cyle]

Firstl of all, THERE IS NO "G" IN CUMMINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cyle is pretty horny about the I6 blah blah blah..... sure it's a great motor, but the reality is that most people do not drive a rig with more than 250k.

Yeah the IFS isn't as strong as a SFA, but most people drive on highways ( that's where I see the most trucks anyways ) and Chevys have the best ride. Dodge has had it's share of front end issues.

Ford had so many issues with the 6.slow that it's taking untill now for people to realize that the 6.4 is a capable and may not have as many problems as people thought when they first came out. Now IMO it's time to stand back again and see what happens with their new 6.7.

These are questions that will help you decide.

How long will I keep the truck?
Will I put on 35" or bigger tires?
Will I go wheeling with the truck?


Find a dealer that people like. There are plenty of them that are poor enough to ruin a persons experience with a brand.

Yes it does depend what you want. But the thing that annoys me is the guys who try to say the duramax is the best motor. It is not in any shape or form better then the cummins 5.9. Now in the new trucks it doesn't matter, 6.7, 6.4, whatever they are all garbage with the emissions on them and are barely even a diesel anymore. Must take the emissions off and still, don't match up to the old ones.

As far as suspension, IFS is ok for the highway maybe stock, but anyone who puts bigger tires on it seems to complain about it like 37", and how you need 12" of lift to run any sort of tire.

Since the OP didn't really state his intentions it's really tough to say. I bought my dodge because I will still have it in 15 years and I know the cummins will never give me any trouble. Plus I am running decent power, 38" tires, IFS wouldn't come close to standing up.


Standards are just as fast, BUT most people don't know how to shift them right. It is a lot of practice to get them to shift good, but they are just as fast as an auto. I wouldn't ever get rid of my standard. Anyone can bolt on parts and run at auto down the track by hitting the go pedal, it takes some skill to drive a stick right. Plus the control you have towing cannot be beat.

 

[Cyle]

Always love the uninformed diesel people on snowmobile websites. please tell me all new from scratch changes that were made on the duramax motors.

Always love the duramax guys who think they know everything and actually believe a V8 diesel holds a candle to a I6. The duramax has been revamped what, 5 times in the last 10 years? None of them are minor, LLY LMM, etc all had pretty big changes done to them.

Sorry the duramax is the best diesel motor because gm says it has an extra 10hp/10 torque over ford and dodge!?!?

Believe whatever you want though buddy

 

[08summit]

Time to get out the popcorn this is getting good...I'll just stay out of it since I drive a 6.7l dodge that is "barely even a diesel" lol. I will tie my stock 6.7 ("Barely diesel") to any stock 5.9 and and drag it around all day...but I guess thats a different thread...lol.

 

[summit889]

Always love the duramax guys who think they know everything and actually believe a V8 diesel holds a candle to a I6. The duramax has been revamped what, 5 times in the last 10 years? None of them are minor, LLY LMM, etc all had pretty big changes done to them.

Sorry the duramax is the best diesel motor because gm says it has an extra 10hp/10 torque over ford and dodge!?!?

Believe whatever you want though buddy

I never said the d-max is superior. the common rail cummins came out in 03 and had minor changes in 04.5 and 06 and a completely new motor in 07.5. D-max came out in 01 had minor changes in 04.5, 06, 07.5. current block is the same as the 01's. LLY's they moved the injectors outside the covers, that's pretty much it. LMM's they added epa junk. they didn't build a whole new motor like cummins did. I could care less who thinks what. they all have plus and minuses. If i was buying new it would be a 6.4 Ford. I race a d-max because it's what i had at the time i decided to start racing. It's faster than most, slower than some. I just don't care for the pom pom wavers who don't know facts.