Lay Offs

[S.W.A.T.]

This might come as a major shock to some but most Alberta oil companies are very very small players when it comes to oil and gas development. Before someone tries to twist my words, I said most not all but most. The big developers that are who operate on a global scale can get their good at a more cost effective point in a other country that they operate I'm pretty sure they will.

Stop complaining about the equalization payments, all provinces take part and that has nothing to do with the way things are. Like I said before it's not Alberta oil it's Canadian oil. Start being a Canadian not just a Albertan.

 

[Cat401]

This might come as a major shock to some but most Alberta oil companies are very very small players when it comes to oil and gas development. Before someone tries to twist my words, I said most not all but most. The big developers that are who operate on a global scale can get their good at a more cost effective point in a other country that they operate I'm pretty sure they will.

Stop complaining about the equalization payments, all provinces take part and that has nothing to do with the way things are. Like I said before it's not Alberta oil it's Canadian oil. Start being a Canadian not just a Albertan.

All provinces take part??....please enlighten me with your massive wisdom on what Quebec adds vs the what they take in equalization payments??

 

[S.W.A.T.]

All provinces take part??....please enlighten me with your massive wisdom on what Quebec adds vs the what they take in equalization payments??

I didn't say they added money I just said take part. Fyi not all the money that goes into the pot comes from one province either nor does it go to one province in general. Again the sign on the front door says Canada. If you do yourself a quick Google search along with other provinces and territories Alberta is part of Canada not it's whole entity

 

[smokinD]

I didn't say they added money I just said take part. Fyi not all the money that goes into the pot comes from one province either nor does it go to one province in general. Again the sign on the front door says Canada. If you do yourself a quick Google search along with other provinces and territories Alberta is part of Canada not it's whole entity

Well sometimes i think we should have built the wall east of Wpg and then see what happens. lol

 

[rzrgade]

The fact is we (Alberta) have payed in 147 billion. BC about 10 billion, so please stop with the pissing our money away.

How would the BC economy shake out with 137 billion less ?
Or any other province ??

i guess that's the thanks we continue to receive for paying MORE than our share....this might explain why a good # of Albertans are pissed off !
Why don't you split it with us here in Alberts , say you retroactively through in close to 70 billion or so.....???

 

[Ol' Sarge]

Stompin' Tom had it right. The O&G industry can deal with the reality of lower prices if everything else remains relatively constant. But that isn't the case right now. We have a new provincial gov't that has indicated changes in taxes, regulation, pipeline policy, wages etc. Now a new federal gov't has added to this with promises of new taxes, environmental and carbon policy, and an uncertain commitment to a new climate agreement in December. No company can deal with this kind of uncertainty and still be responsible to it's shareholders. Wherever possible you simply stop. And wait. It's the uncertainty. And our new governments are responsible for all of that.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

Next time I'm through I will drop a box of tissues off. It's not Alberta money it's Canadian money that's why the payments even exist. They were brought up because if you recall during the 80s 90s the west wasnt exactly the place to be and the east, mostly Ontario flourished due to Canadian dollar being low and manufacturing ease. Moving production facilities over seas in search of lower labor costs and higher profit margins is killing Canada labor force not weak oil prices. A well rounded economy has a balance that can sustain down turns. It's already becoming clear in Ontario again as with lower oil prices and lower dollar the manufacturing sector is returning.

The fact is we (Alberta) have payed in 147 billion. BC about 10 billion, so please stop with the pissing our money away.

How would the BC economy shake out with 137 billion less ?
Or any other province ??

i guess that's the thanks we continue to receive for paying MORE than our share....this might explain why a good # of Albertans are pissed off !
Why don't you split it with us here in Alberts , say you retroactively through in close to 70 billion or so.....???

 

[Ol' Sarge]

The fact is we (Alberta) have payed in 147 billion. BC about 10 billion, so please stop with the pissing our money away.

How would the BC economy shake out with 137 billion less ?
Or any other province ??

i guess that's the thanks we continue to receive for paying MORE than our share....this might explain why a good # of Albertans are pissed off !
Why don't you split it with us here in Alberts , say you retroactively through in close to 70 billion or so.....???

You're right. The numbers are humbling. For a little more perspective, every Albertan, man woman and child, has contributed about $3500 per year more to equalization than someone in Quebec. Think what all of us could do with that over the last 20 years. We are all about to witness why a fable was started 300 years ago called The Goose and the Golden Egg.

 

[DRD]

I didn't say they added money I just said take part. Fyi not all the money that goes into the pot comes from one province either nor does it go to one province in general. Again the sign on the front door says Canada. If you do yourself a quick Google search along with other provinces and territories Alberta is part of Canada not it's whole entity

Hmmm, it's Canada's oil when it comes to sharing profit but dirty Alberta tar sands when it comes to building pipelines to market said resource??

 

[eclipse1966]

I don't think this is the whole reason. If you look at the wikipedia article back in 2009/2010 the total program is only 16.1 billion dollars. Ontario is one of the largest contributor despite receiving payments. I think that the provincial government mis-managed AB money big time. In other means went wild with your money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada

This is not just an Alberta problem. Take a hard look at Onterrible and Queerbec. Alberta transfer payments galore and sucking wind. If Alberta got to keep its revenue instead of getting Robin Hooded all the time to support the rest of the second largest land mass on Earth it might be a different story?

 

[eclipse1966]

wondering where some of you are getting your figures from???

 

[Ol' Sarge]

wondering where some of you are getting your figures from???

That's a great resource. The good stuff starts about page 61. It shows Albertans contribute about $4300 per capita more than Quebec.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

Your twisting my words when I say it's Canadian oil and it is, so are the pipelines and the people they employ. Those pipelines will feed Canadian ports. As a country it would be so beneficial to prove to the world we can do it and keep it clean rather then shipping. By shipping it to other countries for them to refine its sending a message that it isn't clean and countries with lower standards will take it. I am all for development and growth. Let's do it ourselves and prove its good stuff.

 

[ABMax24]

Your twisting my words when I say it's Canadian oil and it is, so are the pipelines and the people they employ. Those pipelines will feed Canadian ports. As a country it would be so beneficial to prove to the world we can do it and keep it clean rather then shipping. By shipping it to other countries for them to refine its sending a message that it isn't clean and countries with lower standards will take it. I am all for development and growth. Let's do it ourselves and prove its good stuff.

The problem comes when we have other parts of Canada protesting Alberta's industry, Canadians as a whole can't decide whether we are coming or going on the issue, most Albertan's don't sit and protest Quebec Hydro projects, or Ontario's Nuclear Reactors, because they are bad for the environment, but they feel they can take up issue with the Oil Sands. That's where the issue starts, how do we sell our industry to the world when we can't even find a common ground amongst ourselves? When we can't even build O&G Facilities because Johnny pencil pusher in Ontario who's never seen an oil well in his life decides oil is dirty.

I agree I'd love to see Canada refine it ourselves, produced in Alberta Refined in the East for all I care, spread the jobs around, so we rely a little less on equalization payments.

 

[Ol' Sarge]

This is an old argument that is not based on reality. It is horrendously expensive to build new refineries in this country. It is uneconomic for a number of reasons. Aside from the fact that our construction and operating costs are among the highest in the world the killer is the fact that other countries will not pay enough for our finished products. They have the facilities and infrastructure already in place, and can do it cheaper than we can and to the specs they require. It's the same reason we export wheat instead of flour or bread. And it's why you guys in BC export logs instead of prefab houses.

 

[eclipse1966]

don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing on AB contribution. Per graph, AB contributes a total of approx $14 billion per year (total population x $3,672 per person). AB GDP per capita is around $85,000 so the total contribution is relatively small (less than 5%).

That's a great resource. The good stuff starts about page 61. It shows Albertans contribute about $4300 per capita more than Quebec.

 

[Stompin Tom]

The problem comes when we have other parts of Canada protesting Alberta's industry, Canadians as a whole can't decide whether we are coming or going on the issue, most Albertan's don't sit and protest Quebec Hydro projects, or Ontario's Nuclear Reactors, because they are bad for the environment, but they feel they can take up issue with the Oil Sands. That's where the issue starts, how do we sell our industry to the world when we can't even find a common ground amongst ourselves? When we can't even build O&G Facilities because Johnny pencil pusher in Ontario who's never seen an oil well in his life decides oil is dirty.

That is a very narrow minded view. People have the right to protest what ever they feel they feel is right. Because as a whole Albertains dont protest projects from other areas, others shouldnt be allowed to protest what happens in Alberta? Really?

There are times when others on the outside can see the big picture much better than those on the inside. Every hear the saying "step back and take a look"?

 

[eclipse1966]

hey I export AB wheat converted to flour to many parts of the world

This is an old argument that is not based on reality. It is horrendously expensive to build new refineries in this country. It is uneconomic for a number of reasons. Aside from the fact that our construction and operating costs are among the highest in the world the killer is the fact that other countries will not pay enough for our finished products. They have the facilities and infrastructure already in place, and can do it cheaper than we can and to the specs they require. It's the same reason we export wheat instead of flour or bread. And it's why you guys in BC export logs instead of prefab houses.

 

[Stompin Tom]

This is an old argument that is not based on reality. It is horrendously expensive to build new refineries in this country. It is uneconomic for a number of reasons. Aside from the fact that our construction and operating costs are among the highest in the world the killer is the fact that other countries will not pay enough for our finished products. They have the facilities and infrastructure already in place, and can do it cheaper than we can and to the specs they require. It's the same reason we export wheat instead of flour or bread. And it's why you guys in BC export logs instead of prefab houses.

The simple fact is that its not the environmentalist who are holding back the building of refineries in Canada, it is the HORRENDOUS cost to build here. We in ourselves are the biggest part of the problem. We and WAY above average salaries and wages to work on said project, and in the end expect to get cheaper products out of it. A have your cake and eat it as well.

 

[ABMax24]

That is a very narrow minded view. People have the right to protest what ever they feel they feel is right. Because as a whole Albertains dont protest projects from other areas, others shouldnt be allowed to protest what happens in Alberta? Really?

There are times when others on the outside can see the big picture much better than those on the inside. Every hear the saying "step back and take a look"?

My point is uninformed people shouldn't be able to protest, it would be like me going to Newfoundland to protest the commercial fishing industry because they are "destroying" the oceans while having almost no knowledge of how the industry even works.

Many of these people get their beliefs from hugely biased documentaries on Netflix and the like, none of them bother to get truly informed before forming an opinion.

I think freedom of speech is great, and definitely has its place BTW.