Large Amount of BC Land Closed to Snowmobilers

[Mongrol]

Animals in the wild don't respond well to noise & speed. Approach them slowly and they are suspicious but more tolerant. Approach them fast with pipes blazing & they're gone.
My quad is really quiet and slow and you;d be amazed how tolerant Elk are. RUCKY is right to some extent about animals like to walk on machine tracks but damn, they make the ride rough. LOL

 

[lilduke]

I don't really think the cariboo population is the real issue , I mean if it were, I'd be more than happy to haul some Cariboo food up the mountain&shoot every wolf I see& set up a trap line for the cougar. I can honestly say I've never harmed or seen ANYONE harm a cariboo with a snow machine in my many year of sleding. But what ever I don't think thats the real issue, but as long as we are left with some good areas to ride, I have no problem respecting the cariboo's territory(closures).


I love the Cariboo and if we have to lose a FEW areas and WE are left with lots of good places to ride I am totally fine with that. You have to realise this isn't a local problem, there has been MANY MAJOR land closures, going on all over North America and the rest of the world for several years now, under mandate of United Nations "Sustainable Development" agenda for the 21st century. And sadly their agenda doesn't look all that good for OHV enthusiast. I hope I'm out to lunch, but i don't thinks so. Look into it...

DSD - Division for Sustainable Development - United Nations.

 

[scotts]

I know excatly what you are saying MOYIESLDHEAD. It makes me so angry when someone says they agree with clouser's and such cause they agree with conservation, or their for the enviroment.If you begin to ask questions and look into the science used to make these decisions you will quickly find that there is no sound evidence to support closing off areas to snowmobiles.

We are being sold such a load of crap on these issues its pathetic, From mountain caribou to global warming these are all just tools that special interest groups are using to add fuel to their causes..

 

[Taz]

Animals in the wild don't respond well to noise & speed. Approach them slowly and they are suspicious but more tolerant. Approach them fast with pipes blazing & they're gone.
My quad is really quiet and slow and you;d be amazed how tolerant Elk are. RUCKY is right to some extent about animals like to walk on machine tracks but damn, they make the ride rough. LOL

I watched one caribou laying down 100 feet from our Helli pad while two or three choppers landed and took off at the last mine I was at, we have road past caribou from a short distance not noticing them until we were past them they never flinched they know who there predators are and we aint it.
Just saying.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Yes Scott, it makes me angry too.....but if we react out of anger.....they win. Learned that the hard way!

 

[wide_open]

Would'nt you want to know that the program you agree with is actually going to have some positive affect first. Has anyone informed you that the entire mountain caribou heard has been on the decline for several decades now even in areas where snowmobiles are not a factor whatsoever. I would like to see solid data proving that snowmobiles are in any way responsible for this decline before i jump to conclusions and support these policys

I said that I support conservation. This is a conservation EFFORT. It may not be the cure. It may not do anything. The science may not be always right. I know a minimum amount about the entire project as I was pretty much oblivious to it until yesterday, but at least it is trying to do something about it.

When you write you seem to want the issue to lean your way no matter what. You cite no peer reviewed studies saying that "snowmobiles are not a factor whatsoever." However, you say you want solid data to prove that snowmobiles are in any way responsible.

As snowmobilers, with the exception of a few clubs we go out 4 or 5 in a group and never form a cohesive bond amongst ourselves to make ourselves heard. The groups opposing our sport are large, vocal groups. Instead of sitting here complaining about the closures somebody needs to form something for snowmobilers, like joining a club. I personally do not have the time nor feel like putting in the effort to do fighting something like this, so if my land does get closed, it's my own fault for not being proactive, and I find a new riding area. Until a person stands up and starts something, this thread is pretty much as far as it will go. Moyiesledhead obviously tried in his area, and ABC had input, but how many people on S&M are even involved in a club. Most would rather not spend the money on an annual membership, because "it does nothing." This is what you get when you do nothing. It's a lot easier to bitch about it after the fact on forums and do finger pointing at tree huggers, but at least they're organized and going forward with a purpose.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Don't sweat it wide_open, scott's just venting. I know he gets it. We all need to do that once in a while. It's made me feel better more than once!

 

[wide_open]

Don't sweat it wide_open, scott's just venting. I know he gets it. We all need to do that once in a while. It's made me feel better more than once!

I know exactly where he comes from, because I've been there. When the Liberals were in power I used to get so mad at Chretien over the Kyoto protocol and I always thought global warming was total ch!t. I used to plan to take out Chretien I would get sooo mad, so I'm ok with somebody being on that side. Now I recycle, shut off my truck, walk if I can etc...

Hopefully this thread will get some people thinking, maybe join a club and do something rather than bitch about it later.

 

[moyiesledhead]

This discussion is already the most productive I've had with fellow sledders about this issue in a long time! People are finally starting to listen! :d:d

 

[MtnMaster]

I've never seen a sled or sledder injure an animal of any sort.... BUT, I have seen a moose beat the living SH** out of my old mans Yamaha, years ago. We came upon some moose leisurely strolling up the trail, and while staying a ways back we were trying to find a way around. When Mr. Bull Moose decided he had enough, and turned to charge. All of us bailed into the ditch, and that thing went up one side and down the other of my Dads Viper. Smashed the hood, windshield, tore the seat to shreds, and made a mess under the hood. Then just gave a couple snorts and strolled away.......
One of the funniest damn things I've ever seen

 

[Taz]

" Most would rather not spend the money on an annual membership, because "it does nothing." This is what you get when you do nothing. It's a lot easier to bitch about it after the fact on forums and do finger pointing at tree huggers, but at least they're organized and going forward with a purpose.[/QUOTE]

I plan on supporting the local club/clubs around Kimberley and supporting the B.C.S.F. I will help out where I can we all have an invested interest some more than others and we do need to all put out or shut up.
Thanks wide_open point well made.

 

[moyiesledhead]

I plan on supporting the local club/clubs around Kimberley and supporting the B.C.S.F. I will help out where I can we all have an invested interest some more than others and we do need to all put out or shut up.
Thanks wide_open point well made.

Some guys in Kimberley were trying to set up a club last year, but as far as I know they never followed through with it. I'll see if I can find out what happened with that. You're welcome to come on down to Cranbrook though. Meetings are first and third Wednesday of every month at the Days Inn at 7:00 pm. Couple of us are Divers too! :d

Ken

 

[scotts]

I said that I support conservation. This is a conservation EFFORT. It may not be the cure. It may not do anything. The science may not be always right. I know a minimum amount about the entire project as I was pretty much oblivious to it until yesterday, but at least it is trying to do something about it.

I will concede to you the fact that i havent been able to cite any peer reviewed studies to the contary,as i havent been able to find any to this point. I should also point out the fact that i havent been able to find any supporting the sucess of clousers either. iam continuing to search for both.
Isnt "trying to do somthing", even though we have no idea if it will help or not just as bad as doing nothing at all.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Isnt "trying to do somthing", even though we have no idea if it will help or not just as bad as doing nothing at all.

Never really know until you see the outcome. The arguement I always used when they threw the "Precautionary Principle" at us was the legal principle of "Innocent until proven guilty". Didn't really accomplish much other than put a sheepish look on their faces and make me feel better. We still ended up with restrictions. I can't find a link for it anymore, but the study I used the most was done by Trevor Kinley in the mid 90's. He said some things that "sort of" supported our position. Things like: "Death from myopathy due to interaction with snowmobiles is unlikely unless the animals are chased.", and some others I don't recall right now. I've seen more anecdotal evidence in our favour than against, but in the end it just doesn't matter for reasons I've stated earlier. I may have that study still electronically. If I can find it I'll PM you for your e-mail addy.

 

[scotts]

That would be great i would like to read that.
The "precautionary principal", the treehuggers excuse for action, and the best laid plans for mice and men.
I know this issue has little to do with the survival of the mountain caribou and i guess i hope that my venting will spark some others to actually look into these issues and find out the truth.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Found my hard copy of that study. It's titled: "Recovery action plan for the South Purcells subpopulation of Mountain Caribou". Maybe someone better at searches than me can find it again. I got it originally from Wildsights website, but I used it against them so many times they removed it!

The exact wording of my favorite line is: "Death from myopathy resulting from running to avoid snowmobiles or other machines is unlikely unless chasing occurs intentionally."

Ken

Edit: Try this link. I can't open it on dialup, but it should be the one. http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library/frbc2001/FRBC2001MR112.pdf It's good reading but just remember, this issue isn't really about "the truth" any more. Not sure it ever was actually.

 

[Taz]

Some guys in Kimberley were trying to set up a club last year, but as far as I know they never followed through with it. I'll see if I can find out what happened with that. You're welcome to come on down to Cranbrook though. Meetings are first and third Wednesday of every month at the Days Inn at 7:00 pm. Couple of us are Divers too! :d

Ken

You bet I already emailed the C.S.C. for info unfortunately I wont be there on a Wednesday until January (Not including Christmas) but I will come down, we go into Cranbrook every trip and I'ill be there next weekend the 20th. PM me with your number & I will call when I get there if your into it we can meet.
Thanks and the diving thing is awesome too.:d

 

[scotts]

That awsome thanks,Just downloaded it now.Quickly glanced at it and it will likley just get me more worked up.Noticed published accounts of population reduction since the early 1900's.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Yup, no doubt caused by those 1920's era noisy sleds huh! :d Gotta see the humour in it or you'll go crazy! Just remeber what I said....it doesn't matter, they're going to do it anyway.

 

[scotts]

I agree with you completly. I have become a enviromental movement skecptic after reading the book State of Fear by Michael Crichton. It inspired me to do some of my own research, i would recomend it to you