I want what Kelsey is smokin'....

[CUSO]

I read a couple of posts/quotes, and scratched my head a bit.

Here

 

[snopro]

I read a couple of posts/quotes, and scratched my head a bit.

Here

Yeah I see what you mean. He is contradicting himself.

 

[CUSO]

One thing is the speed sensor on the crank?
And also the longevity of the etecs...

 

[maxwell]

ya hes been saying the etec wont last since it came out....hes been proven very wrong lol. tons of 7000 plus km machines out there

 

[fredw]

ya my crank been lasting on the turbo etec now over two years....lol remember all the crap he was saying with the etec after it was first out and would not waste his time with it...lol .... his skidoo perfomance history has had its moments...

 

[takethebounce]

There are a handful of guys out there that have a good following of clients and customers that believe whatever these "engine builders" and "clutch tuners" tell them.

I don't care who you are and how many "testers" someone has in the field or how much theory you know about something nothing will replace the experience of the guys who live and breath mountain riding. Be it actual companies out here or in the Pacific North West or even some of you that use this site, flatlanders who build and tune for mountain riders just doesn't make sense.

You really start to see the limitations on their knowledge and abilities when they make comments on open forums and such. That being said there are a few other guys out there who can stand behind their products.

I won't knock a product I haven't tried but I have tried Kelsey's products on previous sleds and some were great. As the technology changed I found there to be less of a gain for me. Maybe someone else thinks different. Same goes for clutching. I think Joey did some decent upgrades to previous sleds. As the technology changed I found him harder to go to. Maybe my own knowledge just became better as well.






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[Slamnek]

I had the RKT head and piston kit in an 05 summit 800 and the head on my 09 M8. Both seem to work pretty good. I bought my M8 with the head kit already installed so i don't know how it was stock, but like i said it runs and pulls awesome.

 

[fredw]

very good point... he could of talked me into anything 10 years ago, not so much 5 years ago and now not to much...lol

few things i have learned over the 20 plus years of doing bbs, most builders out there are doing their research on your coin.... and that can work fine if results are promising, but when ch!t hits the fan, is when you see how good your builder really is, most builders will just make excusses and run clear of costs

my last bb exsperience has been the best, stand up guy that has great knowlege base and stands behind work if their is issues... as i stated in the past if skidoo would of had made tthe 880 motor 5 years ago they would of had even a much bigger part of the mountain sales

that being said my 729, or 925 tripple bb were just night mares and should of never been even been though up... cooling system and lube system were inadequate for hp

 

[RK Tek]

I read a couple of posts/quotes, and scratched my head a bit.

Here

With all due respect, the ETEC has had a full piston recall.. So pass the pipe

Warranty Bulletin 2011-18 800R E-TEC Piston Replacement is VIN-specific, affecting overall E-TEC MODELS as listed below that are 1) used generally at an altitude of 1200m (4000 ft) & above AND 2) have reached 2000km (1200 mi):

- 2011 Summit
UMBA, UMBC, UNBA, UNBB, UNBC, UNBD, UPBA, UPBB, UPBC, UPBD, URBA, URBB, URBC, URBD, CZBA

- 2011 Renegade
BABC, BABD, BABE, UFBA, UKBA, UKBB, UKBC, UKBE, UGBA

- 2011 MX Z
MXBA, MXBB, MXBD, MZBB, MZBC, MZBD, MZBE, MZBF, UCBA

- 2010 Summit
CAAA

Communication to dealer service depts is already underway with this exact same info, just reference Warranty Bulletin 2011-18. Re the website, it won't appear on the "recall information" page of the SD website since it's not a Safety Campaign. differences <--(2011-18 is a #4 from that list.)

 

[takethebounce]

Kelsey you are using a mechanical defect in the pistons design as an argument though.

I would like to hear what opinions you hold now after having experienced a few seasons of etecs on the snow.

It is fact you haven't been a fan of the design yet want to jump into the performance game of a product you once felt wouldn't be beneficial.

Give us a real unbiased look at your thoughts.



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[RK Tek]

Kelsey you are using a mechanical defect in the pistons design as an argument though.

I would like to hear what opinions you hold now after having experienced a few seasons of etecs on the snow.

It is fact you haven't been a fan of the design yet want to jump into the performance game of a product you once felt wouldn't be beneficial.

Give us a real unbiased look at your thoughts.



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With all due respect, this was NOT a mechanical defect, it was a piston design problem where they failed to address the added heat and lack of piston cooling from fuel (that is not present on the ETEC due to its design). So, they changed the design to try and address the problems that are associated with the ETEC that are not part of a case induced fueling.. One of the problem areas that I suspected, and did, would happen with this design..

The crank bearings are sealed in an ETEC and this is new and CAN be a problem area over the conventional (fuel and oil cooled) bearings (like ANY internal combustion engine).So, the ETEC is treading in new territory in these areas..

Same with the very common Reed failures.. (another area I mentioned way back)... same issue.. DRY reeds.. NOT GOOD.. BTW, we have a fix for this issue that willbe released this season..

So, in short, the ETEC is in new territories thathave not been explored before (hence the recalls) It has the potentialof being a very good engine but the inherent problems that are associated with this type of induction will take some time to overcome with unique and innovative solutions... This is the 4th CONSUMER year withit and they are making progress in all these areas.. but it has been prone to more recalls (engine related) and problems than its carb based PTEK Brother..

 

[rusty]

RKT--
Please expain the nature of piston cooling by means of fuel in a scavange type two stroke engine, and port design such as we see in the 800 p-tek engine vs the e-tech . piston rings cool pistons and or oil jets. so if on a e tec where as the injector would spray thepiston and improved rings, would that not by design create a better means of cooling.. not to mention the pre-post burns that are initiated for compliance. enlighten us all,

 

[RK Tek]

RKT--
Please expain the nature of piston cooling by means of fuel in a scavange type two stroke engine, and port design such as we see in the 800 p-tek engine vs the e-tech . piston rings cool pistons and or oil jets. so if on a e tec where as the injector would spray thepiston and improved rings, would that not by design create a better means of cooling.. not to mention the pre-post burns that are initiated for compliance. enlighten us all,

Great question...

While it is not my intent to get into a full blown discussion on 2 stroke theory and such (way too lousy of a typer for that)

We can GREATLY simplify what is happening internally for the sake of this question.

Anytime a piston is in contact with the cylinder the piston is transferring heat from itself. This we can agree on..

What may or may not be apparent is the fact the FUEL is the #1 cooling agent in a 2 stroke engine..It is not the cooling system but fuel.

When you have a case induce fueling, the bottom end (all of its components) of the engine is running cooler than one that is not full of fuel.
So, the crank, rods, bearings, etc. etc. temperature are directly related to the amount of cooling agent that is present to reduce them. In an ETEC, you have little to no fuel in the lower end , so by the laws of physics, they will run "hotter" than a lower end that has a medium ,such as fuel, that offers cooling (PTEK), So, by nature of the design, the ETEC's lower end components will run higher internal temps than the PTEK.

Now, next step, as the piston descends to BDC, the "hotter" crankcase (as whole) will become even hotter due to the heat of the piston adding to the small space.. Think of a space heater (the piston) in your office..move it closer to you and you feel more heat.. so, the piston will heat the lower end with each stroke and the lower end will also heat the piston.. Everything gets hotter.. (ETEC)

Now, consider having a cooler lower end by means of fuel hanging out there and flowing with good velocity up the transfers, This will COOL verything that it come in proximity with (PTEK).

So, by means of design, the PTEK will keep everything internally cooler than the ETEC.

 

[CUSO]

If you are running your sled HARD, like 40L in 8 hours, you should burn about 3 TSP./minute of fuel average..

Do you think the cooling is really compromised, since the bottom end has cooling, it's own lubrication from the pump??.... I am guessing there is lotsa air to do that job,

Its like misting an oscillating fan every 5 seconds with a spray bottle.... onto a burning fire.

Did you figure out the RPM crank issue yet?? LOL