neilsleder
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I am in to!
groups calling for bans in public places .... this can't be good :(
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Lem Lamb
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It was nice to hear Leonardo's comment about spending goverment funds to fix up the trails, my reply is that this is our money we pay to insure & registure our OHV's. Those funds have be sent off to other goverment needs and were not kept a side for what it is needed for, trails, signage, bridges over creeks and stream...I all so beg to differ on the prime grizzly bear habitat as most bears find green grasses any where they walk, and prime feeding for them is on "harden ground or rocky areas" where small furry critters dwell,,, the real prime is Moose... That's my take in my opinon...
Any-Who, the main idea is that 99.9% or .8 are very respectful OHV folks from what I have seen all across North America, and this very small % has yet to come on board, so let's work with that...When we see a trail of mud, this is to be expected since all OHV's small and large disturb the ground, since we are not riding on gravel roads or hwy's,,, what would a grassy cut-line look like when a push cat, track-hoe, or skidder look like,,, same thing as grass is "rezilliante" all-ways,,, same as weeds and wild flowers as it grows back...
The majority of quad/ ohv folks are not out to wreck our sport/ activity as we like sight-seeing the back-woods instead of sitting at home doing nothing,,, ohv is a necessity/ way of life since it is healthy to our mind/ soul/ and friends/ family... This is where we all shine as we share in the passion of what and where we live... "Point and blank."
Each of us have our own reason why we ohv, so this is the goal we strive for. Those that challenge us need to know why we love the out-doors, by quad, horse, mountain bike, hunting, fishing, as well as sight seeing, fitness is part of it to since our hips and kness can do so much,,, we are pressed for time, if not,,, "we would all be riding horses and mules..." Fact is that living in the towns and citys makes it hard to keep live-stock, so gas powered pony it is...
All put down in the my opinion only catagory with out auto crack... Pal Lem.
Any-Who, the main idea is that 99.9% or .8 are very respectful OHV folks from what I have seen all across North America, and this very small % has yet to come on board, so let's work with that...When we see a trail of mud, this is to be expected since all OHV's small and large disturb the ground, since we are not riding on gravel roads or hwy's,,, what would a grassy cut-line look like when a push cat, track-hoe, or skidder look like,,, same thing as grass is "rezilliante" all-ways,,, same as weeds and wild flowers as it grows back...
The majority of quad/ ohv folks are not out to wreck our sport/ activity as we like sight-seeing the back-woods instead of sitting at home doing nothing,,, ohv is a necessity/ way of life since it is healthy to our mind/ soul/ and friends/ family... This is where we all shine as we share in the passion of what and where we live... "Point and blank."
Each of us have our own reason why we ohv, so this is the goal we strive for. Those that challenge us need to know why we love the out-doors, by quad, horse, mountain bike, hunting, fishing, as well as sight seeing, fitness is part of it to since our hips and kness can do so much,,, we are pressed for time, if not,,, "we would all be riding horses and mules..." Fact is that living in the towns and citys makes it hard to keep live-stock, so gas powered pony it is...
All put down in the my opinion only catagory with out auto crack... Pal Lem.
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ATV causes ZERO damage. ZERO. If anything the animals will have better ease of mobility in the winter walking on the cleared trails. It's angry uneducated people who have led selfish lives who say otherwise. This drives me insane as morons like these have closed down Lily Lake recently.
Lily lake is a prime example of how retarded people are. This is what I experienced.
1. Throughout the years ATV's made trails at Lily Lake.
2. People started to walk on the ATV trails because is was easy to walk on a trail instead of walking through dense bush.
3. A few morons who I've seen started to walk on these trails and decided one day that they didn't want see or hear any ATV's on these trails. So they started to harass ATV riders while they were on there special nature hike. And they started to complain to the country. Even though the trail they were walking was a an ATV trail, made my an ATV's!
Like how stupid can you get?
ATV riders pay taxes, ATV's do no damage what so ever. Further more if they want to take our ATV trails away, then we should be allow to take all there roads, and all the cars away from them.
Road's & Highways, that's the real damage to wildlife. Hypocrites like these make my blood boil.
Take all the fun away from the kids keep them inside, that;s what they are really doing.
How many animals die every year by getting hit by a car, and they complain about ATV's
Lily lake is a prime example of how retarded people are. This is what I experienced.
1. Throughout the years ATV's made trails at Lily Lake.
2. People started to walk on the ATV trails because is was easy to walk on a trail instead of walking through dense bush.
3. A few morons who I've seen started to walk on these trails and decided one day that they didn't want see or hear any ATV's on these trails. So they started to harass ATV riders while they were on there special nature hike. And they started to complain to the country. Even though the trail they were walking was a an ATV trail, made my an ATV's!
Like how stupid can you get?
ATV riders pay taxes, ATV's do no damage what so ever. Further more if they want to take our ATV trails away, then we should be allow to take all there roads, and all the cars away from them.
Road's & Highways, that's the real damage to wildlife. Hypocrites like these make my blood boil.
Take all the fun away from the kids keep them inside, that;s what they are really doing.
How many animals die every year by getting hit by a car, and they complain about ATV's
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Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
your living in denial and the exact kind of absurd reactions you make are why it is so easy for "them" to build cases against offroad use.
To state that ATV's do no damage what so ever and to bring up examples such as highways to prove your case is plain dumb.
Well in theory he is right. Atv's do no damage its the some of the idiots ridding them that create all the damage.
Instead of gripping about the hikers taking over the trail did anyone ever sit down with the local groups and try to come up with a plan to share the trail? Was the trail registered as a ATV trail legally? All the groups that use trail systems must work together.
Everyone needs to get together with their local atv clubs as this is the only way your voice is going to be heard. 1 club will be heard louder than 1 person. Also need to contact your AOHVA and find out if they are working on this.
nwoprormk
Active member
Its funny. Our gov't has absolutely no issues collecting the tax from the sale, or the tax from the dealership (business tax), or the tax from the fuel and oil needed to run the "devils toys" but actually use them.........pfff. catch me if u can. far as I'm concerned when I pay the fees and costs to be legal, it buys me the right to use it on crown land. Far as being destructive, I agree to some point, but that's all on a individual basis. I respect the wilderness, and try to leave as little a footprint as possible, but that's me
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leonard
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TOTALLY AGREE, XTREME.... THINK EVEN ON THIS SITE, MEDIA TYPES HAVE ACCOUNTS AND CAN CHIME IN WHENEVER THEY WANT.... I'VE MENTIONED BEFORE BEING CAREFUL WHAT PICS ARE POSTED, AND I EVEN SUSPECT JUST AN AVATAR PIC LIKE LEONARD'S ON THIS SITE MAY BE AMMUNITION
WHICH IS PRETTY FRICKIN' KOOL, I MIGHT ADD
That was taken on the whitecourt area trails , They have been like that for hmmm 30+ years. and that was in a flooded spring condition.
Everything in context right what harm is there in going through some flooded trail system?
I went out there last year and it was mostly dried up.
with the low moisture this year it will likely be bone dry and settled.
Its kind of my point everything has a context. If that was muskeg and not just a muddy trail id say .. this guy has a point since skeg just stays messed up.
Lem Lamb
Active VIP Member
I agree with leonard on how things are taken out of context as he explained that the Avitar was taken in the White Court area, and those of us that have had a chance to travel in that area as well as Fox Creek, Swan Hills, West Medican Lk, or other OHV areas arcoss all of North America of Canada and the USA is that many spots have rain water that drains into low holes where these cut-lines are made.
This photo is nothing new to the majority of us ohv folks since you can see much of the front rack and the unit's tires are at the half way point in the water line "if you expand it to take a closer look,,, I'm sure that many of us have done the same crossing in much deeper situations.
But each persons see things different. Any-who... As I mentioned above that ohv's are off road units that travel off the beaten paths since there is no gravel or paved streets where we ride here in Alberta. I've been lucky to ride from boarder to boarder South to North along the East Slopes to find a paved trail or gravel on slash-lines, pipe-line, or de-activated logging access blocks.
It would be nice to have our ohv/ sled funds "that we pay/ own" go into a trail fund that would fix up the odd area where many of us ride, and some of this is happening in the Crows Nest Pass "I think," defiantly is happening in the Humming Bird area, and I would hope a few other areas here in the Province.
Alberta has a good market in off road units, and our Province needs to help improve and support this sport as an official active here in Alberta. North Carolina is the vacation capital of the USA, so why can't Alberta or any other Province in Canada gain access to this saying up here.
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I totally agree, but that's not what greenies see... Obviously All they see is a quad blasting through and tearing up "their" precious water system
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Lem Lamb
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Maybe the time has come to change ohv activity to match what greenies or we want to see.
I stated on "Land Use in Canada" that I'm all about existing trail maintenance, camp site clean up, and fixing the odd sink holes on "main" access trails that I use in my travels. Spur and side line paths remain as they are as well as creek banks un touched for natural erosion.
Sustainable Resources in our area "allows us to cross creeks and streams so long as there is a connector trail on the other side since there is no funding for ohv bridges, this is allowed in the Humming Bird ohv recreation area so riders can access the Canary Trail. This is ok so long as the ohv's are not driving up and down the water way. If there is a bridge in site of a ohv made crossing, one should choose the bridge as "Best Practice."
One would think that showing and stating rides here on Snow & Mud will improve the future out-look that we are after by maintaining areas we ride in, but there are a few challenges in this since it would take all of us to achieve this goal. Could it be that mud bogging should take place at organized events on privet property to prevent public perception that this is not happening on crown land.
If we all want to change the perception of whats going on, then it is up to us to do this for our sport then.
Pal Lem
I stated on "Land Use in Canada" that I'm all about existing trail maintenance, camp site clean up, and fixing the odd sink holes on "main" access trails that I use in my travels. Spur and side line paths remain as they are as well as creek banks un touched for natural erosion.
Sustainable Resources in our area "allows us to cross creeks and streams so long as there is a connector trail on the other side since there is no funding for ohv bridges, this is allowed in the Humming Bird ohv recreation area so riders can access the Canary Trail. This is ok so long as the ohv's are not driving up and down the water way. If there is a bridge in site of a ohv made crossing, one should choose the bridge as "Best Practice."
One would think that showing and stating rides here on Snow & Mud will improve the future out-look that we are after by maintaining areas we ride in, but there are a few challenges in this since it would take all of us to achieve this goal. Could it be that mud bogging should take place at organized events on privet property to prevent public perception that this is not happening on crown land.
If we all want to change the perception of whats going on, then it is up to us to do this for our sport then.
Pal Lem
moyiesledhead
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leonard
Active VIP Member
For sure i'd take the bridge every time.
I have snorkels and a big tires so i don't get swamped and or stuck when there isn't a bridge.
But i personally prefer cruising down a nice trail to be honest.
I prefer medium speed 60km rides on nice scenic trails over skeg and mud for 25+km any day.
But when i get somewhere where i have to cross something sketchy maybe because of flooding or what not.. i don't like having to back track the trail and i sure as heck don't like swamping or getting stuck.
Lem Lamb
Active VIP Member
I found some more chat about ohv use on the Eastern Slopes of Alberta written from Bab Glen "who is just the messenger" of what she is being told by others on their point of view where they stand and what they see.
It looks like she has a few of these articles published in the Western Producer. We have some numbers to work with as it "states" that there are 118.000 thousand units registered in Alberta, and it generates $2 billion dollars in revenue. So now we know that ohv alone has a massive foot print here at home, I would guess that our brothers & sisters on snowmobiles would be close to this same number, "give or take"...
Barb has been told that we ohv user are responsible for the depletion of cutthroat-trout, grizzly bear populations, and the destruction of lands along these Eastern Slopes. These words are from Kevin Van Tighem, a conservationist of the recently released "Heart Waters" Sources of the Bow River.
Google Jan 28th 2016 Western Producer and read page 15 from Barb Glen.
This is Feb 4th 2016 artical
Some of the facts are missing in this conversation of creeks and streams drying up in this West-land that will not support habitat when there is no water flowing.
No mention about illegal shootings of grizzly bears along the hwys and back roads by truck traffic that has nothing to do with ohv folks like my self who dose not own a fire-arm. "Real big game hunters" don't shoot bears with out the paper work in hand since they enjoy the "privilege" of game harvest for food and reward of a chance of a life time trophy. Many of us that read wild-life facts published in North America under stand that male grizzly bears will kill all off-spring when given the chance, so this too has nothing to do with ohv users either.
I don't have the web form "linked" to look at Barb Glen write-ups on this topic, but I will do up a draft of my limited take on what she has been told by others that support the closers of the West-lands that they want a dressed before this may long weekend of 2016.
Kinda sad to think that so many of us chat about this well things continue to shut down in front of us when the larger groups in the USA keep gaining more areas down there to ride.
It really boils down to group participation in numbers if we want to keep riding areas open, but only a few as well as my self can not do enough to promote our case in what we would like to see happen in our areas. Just think what would happen if all 119.000 thousand ohver's jumped on board with a plan to assist along with the same number of sledders.
I ain't book learning smart nor wording, but it sure would be nice to come up with a letter I could send to Barb Glen stating my facts of what I've been doing in the area I ride to clear old trails of fallen trees and filling in washes so "all" users can access with ease on ohv, sleds, mountain bikes, horses, and foot walkers.
There is no them or us if we need to share the lands with all our brothers & sister across all of North America that come to see what we have to offer.
Pal Lem looking to expand on what we all have !!!
It looks like she has a few of these articles published in the Western Producer. We have some numbers to work with as it "states" that there are 118.000 thousand units registered in Alberta, and it generates $2 billion dollars in revenue. So now we know that ohv alone has a massive foot print here at home, I would guess that our brothers & sisters on snowmobiles would be close to this same number, "give or take"...
Barb has been told that we ohv user are responsible for the depletion of cutthroat-trout, grizzly bear populations, and the destruction of lands along these Eastern Slopes. These words are from Kevin Van Tighem, a conservationist of the recently released "Heart Waters" Sources of the Bow River.
Google Jan 28th 2016 Western Producer and read page 15 from Barb Glen.
This is Feb 4th 2016 artical
Some of the facts are missing in this conversation of creeks and streams drying up in this West-land that will not support habitat when there is no water flowing.
No mention about illegal shootings of grizzly bears along the hwys and back roads by truck traffic that has nothing to do with ohv folks like my self who dose not own a fire-arm. "Real big game hunters" don't shoot bears with out the paper work in hand since they enjoy the "privilege" of game harvest for food and reward of a chance of a life time trophy. Many of us that read wild-life facts published in North America under stand that male grizzly bears will kill all off-spring when given the chance, so this too has nothing to do with ohv users either.
I don't have the web form "linked" to look at Barb Glen write-ups on this topic, but I will do up a draft of my limited take on what she has been told by others that support the closers of the West-lands that they want a dressed before this may long weekend of 2016.
Kinda sad to think that so many of us chat about this well things continue to shut down in front of us when the larger groups in the USA keep gaining more areas down there to ride.
It really boils down to group participation in numbers if we want to keep riding areas open, but only a few as well as my self can not do enough to promote our case in what we would like to see happen in our areas. Just think what would happen if all 119.000 thousand ohver's jumped on board with a plan to assist along with the same number of sledders.
I ain't book learning smart nor wording, but it sure would be nice to come up with a letter I could send to Barb Glen stating my facts of what I've been doing in the area I ride to clear old trails of fallen trees and filling in washes so "all" users can access with ease on ohv, sleds, mountain bikes, horses, and foot walkers.
There is no them or us if we need to share the lands with all our brothers & sister across all of North America that come to see what we have to offer.
Pal Lem looking to expand on what we all have !!!
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X-Treme
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Is there any mention of what damage to streams and wildlife, etc all the coal mines in the Eastern slopes have caused? All so we can ship all that coal to Japan.
Those guys just pay off the government to do whatever they want. Oh, there's a river in the way? No problem. Give the province a few mil, and we'll just move it. Who cares about the fish.
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Those guys just pay off the government to do whatever they want. Oh, there's a river in the way? No problem. Give the province a few mil, and we'll just move it. Who cares about the fish.
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Lem Lamb
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Makes one wonder if we all trade in our ohv's and buy horses what the Eastern Slopes would look like when 118.000 them show up for the long weekend. Ha...
We might need to do some planning on where we want to mount the licence plate on these ponies. Rear bumper might not be a good spot.
We might need to do some planning on where we want to mount the licence plate on these ponies. Rear bumper might not be a good spot.
turbo392
Active VIP Member
All the damaging ATV trails are being systematically replaced with bulldozer tracks anyways. What ruts? What forest? I don't see any.
Lem Lamb
Active VIP Member
No ruts in the hard rocky areas, low lying wet areas get chewed up pretty good, but they sluff back in after winter. As I mentioned in other posts is that we do not drive our units on hwys or gravel roads in those areas, so expecting to see the odd areas with rutted up is the norm.
I would guess that logging, mining, and oil patch all have rules and regulations to follow since we still burn coal, live in wood houses, and burn fuel like other countries around the globe. They did a awesome job logging West of Nordegg by staying away from the streams/ creeks with a buffer zone, Cut off Creek and areas around Grande Cash from what I can see. Better logged out once in a while instead of letting it over grow to be come a massive forest fire later on,,, IMO only that is.
It is easy to point the finger at others as we "might/ or have" been painted by this same brush when it comes to keeping our riding areas open, so with 100 thousand plus units registered in Alberta gives us a good chance of having a say, but it takes people and action to spark the interest for it to happen. A few of us are game for this, but it would be to hard to for-go change since we live in a world of them and us. "Kinda that is."
I may self don't have the know how since I spend my time working or quading, but I do have the odd day to put towards a larger group effort to challenge more the closers coming our way. this is a given since some groups don't enjoy seeing what is going on in the back country of the Eastern Slopes. They to have vailed concerns of what they see, read, and hear on land use here in Alberta since they have a stake in future planning. Much like us if someone organizes something that could help our sport as a whole for future generations.
Just my 2 cents
I would guess that logging, mining, and oil patch all have rules and regulations to follow since we still burn coal, live in wood houses, and burn fuel like other countries around the globe. They did a awesome job logging West of Nordegg by staying away from the streams/ creeks with a buffer zone, Cut off Creek and areas around Grande Cash from what I can see. Better logged out once in a while instead of letting it over grow to be come a massive forest fire later on,,, IMO only that is.
It is easy to point the finger at others as we "might/ or have" been painted by this same brush when it comes to keeping our riding areas open, so with 100 thousand plus units registered in Alberta gives us a good chance of having a say, but it takes people and action to spark the interest for it to happen. A few of us are game for this, but it would be to hard to for-go change since we live in a world of them and us. "Kinda that is."
I may self don't have the know how since I spend my time working or quading, but I do have the odd day to put towards a larger group effort to challenge more the closers coming our way. this is a given since some groups don't enjoy seeing what is going on in the back country of the Eastern Slopes. They to have vailed concerns of what they see, read, and hear on land use here in Alberta since they have a stake in future planning. Much like us if someone organizes something that could help our sport as a whole for future generations.
Just my 2 cents
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Klondike Mike
Active member
the latest attack by the leftrard tree huggers.
https://www.facebook.com/DATEdamagedalbertaterrain/?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/DATEdamagedalbertaterrain/?fref=ts
Klondike Mike
Active member
I'm pretty sure I know this spot. If I'm not mistaken this photo was taken in the Ghost PLUZ. The cameraman is looking south south east. There is a trail just to the right of center the photo. That trail will take you back to WP127 Known as 4 Corners. The trail enters the area over the cameraman's right shoulder. If you backtracked about 100 metes or so you can take a trail that would come around on the cameraman's left back onto the trail down a ways. This is part of the trail system. the Ghost PLUZ seems to be monitored quite well. If this is so devastating then why hasn't it been blocked off as there is a way around it.
These are the same types that will camp in a tent for the weekend. They will crap in the bush 20 feet behind their tent and dump their dishwater out on the ground then lose their minds if you threw a hose into the bush and dumped your grey water from your trailer.
These FUN SUCKERS wont stop until no one can enjoy the back coúntry
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