Group riding Protocol

[FernieHawk]

How many people/groups use a strict group riding Protocol?

Our group had two incidents last weekend and we were lucky everything worked out with only minor injuries...It could have been way worse.

I'm hoping to get the group together for a meeting this weekend so we can reestablish or improve the current Protocol...things have definitely broken down a bit over the last few years.

 

[maxwell]

How many people/groups use a strict group riding Protocol?

Our group had two incidents last weekend and we were lucky everything worked out with only minor injuries...It could have been way worse.

I'm hoping to get the group together for a meeting this weekend so we can reestablish or improve the current Protocol...things have definitely broken down a bit over the last few years.

ours is pretty simple.

1- Radio communication is a MUST, and we check our radios frequently throughout the day, they all work at the truck but you would be surprised how many wont transmit after 2 hours of blower pow from icing up etc.

2 - Sat communication, if one or more in your group has an inreach, ensure they know how to Communicate between devices. Not just to send out messages to someone back in town.

3 - try to ride close together, i know this is diffucult especially in technical terrain but do the best you can.

4. Come up with a time limit when you havent heard from someone in a while. If no radio communication is made then as a group the decision should be made to start trying to track them down,

 

[lilduke]

How many people/groups use a strict group riding Protocol?

Our group had two incidents last weekend and we were lucky everything worked out with only minor injuries...It could have been way worse.

I'm hoping to get the group together for a meeting this weekend so we can reestablish or improve the current Protocol...things have definitely broken down a bit over the last few years.

I like to keep it pretty strict when riding dangerous terrain, and chill out a bit in safer places.

 

[cdnredneck_t3]

We run radios with external mic's. Who ever has a rhino we usually leave them on in a bag on the sled so you can ping people also if they are not responding. I would say our protocol changes depending on the group. If all riders are similarly talented we all look out for each other and make a plan of where we are going and don't move on until everyone is accounted for. Usually run the veto rule also. If one guy feels something is unsafe it's unsafe for everyone.

If we have different strength riders we sometimes split and say we will take the hard way and meet you guys over there. We check in between groups often to make sure everyone is ok.

I also have an inreach.

We have never had to but have talked about worst case scenario. Our theory is all or nothing, we all make it back to the truck or we stay out and help the one who can not. Would send someone to meet S&R and what not but would never say help is on the way we will be back at the hotel.

 

[pano-dude]

We run radios with external mic's. Who ever has a rhino we usually leave them on in a bag on the sled so you can ping people also if they are not responding. I would say our protocol changes depending on the group. If all riders are similarly talented we all look out for each other and make a plan of where we are going and don't move on until everyone is accounted for. Usually run the veto rule also. If one guy feels something is unsafe it's unsafe for everyone.

If we have different strength riders we sometimes split and say we will take the hard way and meet you guys over there. We check in between groups often to make sure everyone is ok.

I also have an inreach.

We have never had to but have talked about worst case scenario. Our theory is all or nothing, we all make it back to the truck or we stay out and help the one who can not. Would send someone to meet S&R and what not but would never say help is on the way we will be back at the hotel.

I found Motorola makes an external mic that works with rhinos. Works great.

 

[pano-dude]

We typically pair up and keeps eyes on your buddy.
Have at least one inreach in the group
Have a regroup area in case someone gets out of sync.

 

[JungleJim]

Good points raised by all so far! We are "trying" to implement at least the buddy principle in our group so no one takes off completely on their own, however this is hard to do when we break into a new zone of untouched and everyone takes off to tear it up... then we mostly just look like cockroaches on crack with the light suddenly turned on! Definitely strictly enforce no one comes down off the mountain until we are all together. We ran into a guy a few years ago in the dark at 7:30 pm who had been stuck and not seen anyone from his group since about 3 pm. They couldn't find him so thought he must have gone down to the truck so they did too. He found them having wobbly pops in the trailer waiting for him! I said he needed to find new riding buddies...

 

[tex78]

If the group stops to eat or drink, and buddy wants to keep going while rest are stopped, has to talk someone into riding with them, no riding alone at all

 

[cdnredneck_t3]

I found Motorola makes an external mic that works with rhinos. Works great.

Yep I have one of those also. Got a 8w radio this year also. If someone does not have one I will let them use one. Also have a spare probe and beacon in my bag incase one forgets or stops working.

 

[RXN]

Our group has nothing formal.
But the way we typically go is:
Radios. We all have them. This past trip we had a tag along that refused a radio, even the spare radio.
Solution. Put him in the middle of the group. We were playing on one hill and another fellow came to us to ask us to help tow his buddies dead sled out. When we dropped down to where his buddy was
, he wasnt there.
Turns out he got the sled going while his buddy was looking for a group to come help. And took off back to the cabin. No radios. Something so simple could have saved all of us from looking for this guy.

Our group gets up to 13 at times. 5 of us have inreaches. 3 have generic GPS's. And 2 of us use multiple apps to map as well.
This year after an incident we learnt inreaches need the other inreaches email to talk to eachother. Not the inreach phone number. Thankfully everything worked out. And now we all have eachothers inreach email addresses in our inreaches. Not just the numbers.

We do send the big sled with the best rider 1st.
And we keep a strong rider at the back.

There are a few things we need to work on.
1- parking on the trail. We've all taken our AST1 they show a good way to park where you dont block the whole trail. Yet guys in my group still park stupidly. Myself included at times
2- parking in the backcountry. Be it for lunch or just a break. You need to leave yourself an out. No one should have to move so you can move. It's pretty simple.
Yet guys cant figure it out.
3- one at a time on a hill.
See it every trip. Someone gets stuck and someone else goes and rides above him, what the @#$* that's a good way to bury a friend.
4- leave you gear on when you dig. We got a guy that takes all his gear off to dig. Cant tell him otherwise.

But one thing we are all good with and align on. The booze stays home. When we ride we ride. None of us drink on the hill. Very blunt. Not there to baby sit a drunk. That can wait til we are back at the room.

 

[TDR]

Excellent points by all. The seemingly simplest travel in the backcountry can have disastrous results. I’ve had people question our cautiousness when it comes to large open slopes, rider spacing, slope loading, no radio etc and my answer is simple - find someone else to ride with. I’m out riding with my sons for the pure enjoyment I get from sharing that experience. Are we perfect every time. Nope. But we talk about the day and learn each time.

 

[kanedog]

Keep the group in sight. Ride in sight. Like the 5.9 Cummins, always works, never fails.

 

[The Kickass One]

Keep the group in sight. Ride in sight. Like the 5.9 Cummins, always works, never fails.

That does not work in the trees and that's where we ride.

Radios, buddy system, communication and never leave a small area without your buddy and large area without crew. Been working with us older guys well but the younger guys need a kick in the ass every now and then!!

 

[cdnredneck_t3]

That does not work in the trees and that's where we ride.

Yep, in the trees I like to be within earshot. If I turn my sled off and don't hear anything I'll radio to see if everybody is good what direction they are in.

That's also the reason I didn't go with the PIDD again. With a pull start it takes so long to boot up I never had a track on the display in the trees.

 

[skegpro]

ours is pretty simple.

1- Radio communication is a MUST, and we check our radios frequently throughout the day, they all work at the truck but you would be surprised how many wont transmit after 2 hours of blower pow from icing up etc.

2 - Sat communication, if one or more in your group has an inreach, ensure they know how to Communicate between devices. Not just to send out messages to someone back in town.

3 - try to ride close together, i know this is diffucult especially in technical terrain but do the best you can.

4. Come up with a time limit when you havent heard from someone in a while. If no radio communication is made then as a group the decision should be made to start trying to track them down,

^this

Plus in groups bigger than 3 assign subgroups of two.

Those two individuals have to cat and mouse through the trees.

Trying to never loose eye contact, with eachother.

Take turns leading.

And don't be afraid to cut people from the team that don't take this seriously.

 

[TDR]

Yep, in the trees I like to be within earshot. If I turn my sled off and don't hear anything I'll radio to see if everybody is good what direction they are in.

That's also the reason I didn't go with the PIDD again. With a pull start it takes so long to boot up I never had a track on the display in the trees.

Thats why I added a lightweight lithium battery kit to mine. Never shuts off.

 

[gopherchoker]

We are newer to mountain sledding but our rules are :
ride in groups of two,
even the cheaper radios are better than none,
your avy shovel is not your stuck shovel,
one at a time on any slope,
no littering,
you Have to wear a tether (we ride doos)
And if someone is uncomfortable with something and says no it’s a group decision.

 

[skid]

Keep the group in sight. Ride in sight. Like the 5.9 Cummins, always works, never fails.

This is kinda how we ride, works good for us, I guess when you don’t use every possible piece of tech available since the beginning you are kinda old school, but hey it works for our large groups and the smaller ones to, and if guys don’t like it good enough ride with someone else, could care less, but most of us up here are on the same page we’re locals and all watch out for each other. Pretty rare (and I mean rare) to see people we don’t know in the cabins and on the hill. And if a guys decides to go rip around by himself while we’re having a bite to eat or god forbid a beer/puff then we usually watch him/her rip it up and if they disappear over a hill or into trees we listen and if we hear nothing a couple of us fire up and check it out. Reading all the other responses I guess we just do it different.

 

[linzoid]

when touring as a group difficulty level is based on the least experienced in the group, if they cant go there we cant either, nobody can take off alone but this has happened and we have left sleds on the mountain overnight (riders were retreived) , if someone is seperated we converge and leave a rider at last point they were seen while teams go search. (nobody is allowed to go to the cabin or trucks when a rider is lost). Everyone must have avy gear and training no exceptions and on each trip we do a practice beacon search with a spare beacon to make sure everyone knows how to use their gear. You can have a beer but no boozing and getting pissed, you must bring food and water and plan to stay overnight so have the safety gear for that and you also must eat because we cant drag your fat ass out when you power down from lack of calories. We have a designated experienced group leader that makes final decisions but generally if someone in the group has a bad feeling or serious doubts or reservations about an area, route or conditions the whole group must respect and abide by their wishes, it is not a democracy but everyone has a say and must be heard. Pack it in pack it out, respect the trail, facilities and other riders, clean up the cabin before you leave, split and haul wood - always help other riders in trouble no matter what

 

[Couch]

3 to 4 max - easier to keep track and enough if there's a problem....beyond 5 gets to be a pain