Grooming 101 for Whiners

[imdoo'n]

You obviously don't understand, that gives them time for one more beer than the slowpokes. Nobody wants to carry the extra weight of full beer cans any longer than they have too.

empties either

 

[MADMAN]

them FKN drinkers

 

[imdoo'n]

them FKN drinkers

yup and don't get me started on smokers and there butts. haha

 

[aocbiz]

Well said Sherm.
Now if only we could get some of the throttle jockeys to understand what you were trying to get across.....rather than taking offence to your post thinking you were blaming only the out of towners....

thanks to all volunteers, you may not get acknowledged by all, but are appreciated by many!

 

[SUMMIT TREE]

Thanks everybody! Thanks for volunteering your own life grooming, hauling fire wood , cabin maintenance , parking lot maintenance and everything else you do when you could be doing anything else , but choose to do that. If your one of "those" people and you know if you are, just doing a couple things slightly different would really make a difference. Try not to spin when u take off, avoid hard braking and try to hold a steady ish speed. Ie: don't punch it when coming into a straight stretch( or ever really) Speed up if you really must but don't punch it.( this makes a small pile of snow which is the birth of a mogul). You WILL get to the cabin and NO there is no trophy, no podium and no chicks in bikinis spraying champagne all over if you are the
"winner" , so do everybody a favor and make an effort to preserve the trail.

 

[maxwell]

did you know.......you can hold your throttle in one position for the entire trail ride?

 

[X-Treme]

did you know.......you can hold your throttle in one position for the entire trail ride?

You're an effing liar!!!!

 

[CUSO]

Whoops will always happen, whether its 25 sleds or 50 sleds. If the ground is softer than what is travelling on it, and not concrete it will eventually whoop. Look at gravel roads. Do you think the washboards are from people burning out? No, it's from suspension reaction carrying through. Sure the ripping escalates it, but it will eventually happen and will never be eliminated.

 

[Old-Soul]

All riders, be them locals or them damn outtatowner folks, should take a moment to say thanks in person. When we left Frisby last weekend I walked up and thanked two of the gents manning the "toll booth" at the trail head and said thanks/shook their hands.

The one guy said nobody has ever done that before, both said they really appreciated us stopping to say thanks and shoot the **** about the conditions up top.

We've all worked thankless jobs before so we all know how far a simple "thanks" or pat on the back can go.

 

[Powder Puff]

........and they are still talking about it, thanks for taking the time. Says a lot when staff dealt with between 500-800 riders a day between both mtns. for 10 days during the holidays and you were the only one that we all heard about. Thank you.
Liquid cooled engines, long track suspensions and high rates of inclination are a trails worst friends and yes the way people ride them to. Then throw in snowfall, temperature and number of riders.
Thanks Sherm for trying.

 

[imdoo'n]

Thanks everybody! Thanks for volunteering your own life grooming, hauling fire wood , cabin maintenance , parking lot maintenance and everything else you do when you could be doing anything else , but choose to do that. If your one of "those" people and you know if you are, just doing a couple things slightly different would really make a difference. Try not to spin when u take off, avoid hard braking and try to hold a steady ish speed. Ie: don't punch it when coming into a straight stretch( or ever really) Speed up if you really must but don't punch it.( this makes a small pile of snow which is the birth of a mogul). You WILL get to the cabin and NO there is no trophy, no podium and no chicks in bikinis spraying champagne all over if you are the
"winner" , so do everybody a favor and make an effort to preserve the trail.

well said. again thanks to all that try to make life better for the complainers and the silent majority who know dfferently.

 

[X-it]

Some people can ride a trail for a whole year and it is as smooth as glass, then one trip with a handful of riders and it is has 2 foot moguls....wtf?

 

[pfi572]

Operation of the grooming machine is a big factor in trail quality .
Just pulling the drag down the whooped out trail making it smooth is great but it will just pound out right away.
Snow needs to be moved and relayed in order for it
to stand up.
Dozer has to cut off whoops and then drag compacts and relays the trail.
Sometimes the volunteer running the machine is must that and not a operator .
If you haven't spend a pile if hrs operating it's not a easy job doing it right.
Just pulling a drag isn't hard but if your dozing , filling in low areas,running drag and so on you are busy.
Snow quality and temp. is a huge factor also when grooming .
Thanks to all the volunteers and paid helpers !!!
If it wasn't for you the sport wouldn't be what it is.
THANK YOU !!!!

Peeps that bitch will always bitch just the way is.
PS.
And do absolutely nothing to help out.

 

[HILCLMR]

A groomed trail is a luxury, people that have been in the sport for a while know this.
We all should thank the folks who volunteer their time and energy to making our sport more convenient and fun for all of us.
If I could suggest 1 thing to help the cause, that would be to have someone speak with trail users about ways of maintaining it while using it at the booth. Not lecture folks just educate them on trail ettiquete.
My $0.02

 

[maxwell]

Operation of the grooming machine is a big factor in trail quality .
Just pulling the drag down the whooped out trail making it smooth is great but it will just pound out right away.
Snow needs to be moved and relayed in order for it
to stand up.
Dozer has to cut off whoops and then drag compacts and relays the trail.
Sometimes the volunteer running the machine is must that and not a operator .
If you haven't spend a pile if hrs operating it's not a easy job doing it right.
Just pulling a drag isn't hard but if your dozing , filling in low areas,running drag and so on you are busy.
Snow quality and temp. is a huge factor also when grooming .
Thanks to all the volunteers and paid helpers !!!
If it wasn't for you the sport wouldn't be what it is.
THANK YOU !!!!

Peeps that bitch will always bitch just the way is.
PS.
And do absolutely nothing to help out.

ive watched groomers cut moguls right off under full power barely moving forward. the problem i notice is there is still that hard snow and no matter what you do its still putting a softer snow on the other side and does not take long to resurface in warmer weather. the snow consistency is not the same. and with alot of the lower trails suffering with snow levels it cant even cut deep enough to remove the memory in the snow without destroying equipment. lots and lots and lots of grooming seems to be the only answer to keep that memory gone. but if you only are able to groom the trail once a week due to funds and the moguls turn into 2 footers its almost impossible to remove that memory in 2 passes. cold weather, lots of snow, and constant grooming and you might see a highway like trail last. but we all know thats damn near impossible with what mother nature deals us and the lack of funds available.

 

[snochuk]

Agree with pfi572 - trail quality has to do with oprator and equipment used, pulling a drag and levelling a trail does not necessarily make a druable trail.
Moguls need to be cut so the drag can fill in with snow fully but there will always be a difference in the sow density of the mogul and the density of the filled area even when a packing bar is used.
A vibrating packing pan can greatly assist the drag in creating a more cosistant snow density on the trail so trails do not pound out near as quick but are not the sole answer. Inconsistant snow densities are a big cause of the loss of trail quality not only guys hammering their throttle on the trail. Updated equipment can be purchased - getting people the ride smart is way tougher! No, probably impossible. LOL

To get the air out of the snow a tiller is required but the operator needs to cut the moguls with the blade not drive with the blade in the air as tiller tines are not overly long to solely fill in the moguls. Operator skill required will be greater than pulling the drag. A packing bar or vibrating packing pan (vibrating pan is by far the best) is still required to densify the snow behind a tiller for optimum equipment results just as with a drag. Tiller will provide a more durable trail in warm conditions as snow density in between the moguls will be consistant where as a drag leaves even more air in the snow in warm conditions than in cold resulting in qucker trail deterioration.

There is equipment on the market to help keep up with new sled designs and HP of new sleds but there is nothing out there to get people ride smart to extend trail life if they don't feel like being responsible.
Can clubs afford the latest and greatest equipment, drags and/or tillers with vibrating pans - not likely without a major major boost in trail fees.
For the $20-25 trail fees(which by the way I am fine with and expect fees to rise over time, just normal inflation costs), trails are in excellent condition 90% and operators do a good job with the equipment on hand.

Enjoy your sledding season and hats off to the groomer operators and volunteers for giving us the trails conditions we have.
Not bitching just my on grooming 101 for uneducated whiners. LOL

 

[DIEZEL]

Couldn't agree more. I am from Alberta and me and my wife have a place in Sicamous and we have never complained about the trails and have zero issues paying my way ever regardless of trail conditions. I like to help "my" community as me and my wife consider Sicamous to be home away from home and take great pride in our community and what happens there. I also get offended when comments are made such as "if it wasn't for Albertans" type attitude (its embarassing) For the complainers seriously go to elsewhere don't bother me as I have no issues driving further to go to a community that if full of great people and sceniory!! People forget how far that money has to go. It doesn't just cover grooming it covers the maint of the cabins and the staff to maintain and clean up the trails. I was there over Christmas and I was disgusted how much garbage we seen on and off the trails (yes we did pick up some of the garbage believe it or not if it was where we stopped). Anything from gloves to lots of bottles and cans. I guess the message on every cabin isn't clear enought!!! My 2 cents I am getting mad thinking about it.

 

[old mountain man]

An annual trail pass in Alberta pays for grooming about 3 K.M of trail ONCE. Grooming is a very big cost with out adding in all the additional costs of maintaining a large sled trail system with a number of cabins. Luckily most riders do appreciate all the efforts that go into trail systems.

 

[ferniesnow]

Another $0.02 to add; as the snow gets deeper the trail is harder to maintain. The base is softer and it is more readily affected by the physics of the sleds. Ever notice that on the lower end of the trail where there is 6" of hard packed snow, it is smoother and holds its form longer than at elevation where there may be 4-5' of packed snow.

I've spent my share of hours in the SnowCat and have had a perfect trail up at the top only to have a soft slushy trail at the bottom and there is absolutely nothing the operator can do about it. It is what it is and we have to deal with what Mother Nature hands us. Sure there are better operators but that is just a fact of life and we as a community have to deal with it and support the grooming programs. Whining and b*tching does not make the trail better.

 

[imdoo'n]

well put, u have to work with the hand your dealt. good or mediocre operator, they are doing the best they can with the equipment they have and the snow they have in front of them.

people will beotch if you give em 10 bucks (cant you spare a $20) or beer could be colder or no kokanee?

should have a hug your groomer day? maybe not that don't seem right! lol

thanks again to all groomers and club volunteers