Garage pad ?

[X-it]

minimum requirements .. 4" slab, 6" at the perimeter no steel required (a little thicker perimeter works better though). 1/2 Anchor bolts every 4 feet, i usually pour the boards and bolts right in. Maximum height of 12feet at mid span of the roof.

 

[ferniesnow]

Thank you. I've tried to do my best in order not to post new

So I got a permit from city of Edmonton for a 22 wide and 24 long garage.
Planning to make it 9 ft tall with 8ft overhead doors.
My major concern right now is the pad. How to make it right for less (i know sounds silly)
should I go with just a regular pad or make it with a 1 ft curb?
Any comments will be appreciated.
Thank you.

Didn't you have to specify the details on the application for the permit?

If you think about the floor for a minute, one normally lays down a footing 8-10" thick and up to 2' wide around the perimeter and then the walls on top of the footing. The floor is at least another 3 1/2" on top of the footing. So easy figuring, it is 12" thick around the interior perimeter with the floor in place.

A slab with a thickening is pretty easy and the form work is simple; 2x10 on edge and a 2x4 or 2x6 on top. Then fill and tamp the interior, add lots of steel with 4 1/2" re-bars all around in the footing area and criss-cross the floor area with 1/2" re-bar@ 16" centers and for a residential garage you will be just fine. Your labor is cheap but you will use more concrete this way as the thickening has to be tapered.

I'm not into the construction like Cyle is but this will work and it may not be the cheapest.

 

[maxwell]

No one has taken away cyles posting privileges yet? Holy fawk man I know the internet is full of bad information but you seem to be the all mighty king contributor to the steaming BS pile. A slab thickening is designed for a reason and it works. If your going to get a cracking pad it will be one that is consistent thickness. My god. Load on edges from building.....duhhhhhhhhh. You make my brain hurt.



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[Cyle]

No one has taken away cyles posting privileges yet? Holy fawk man I know the internet is full of bad information but you seem to be the all mighty king contributor to the steaming BS pile. A slab thickening is designed for a reason and it works. If your going to get a cracking pad it will be one that is consistent thickness. My god. Load on edges from building.....duhhhhhhhhh. You make my brain hurt.



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Wow another retard to explain this to? Calculate psi load of a typical garage and then a typical vehicle and let me know which one needs more support. Hint it's the vehicle. A typical garage weights absolutely nothing for how spread out the weight is. Don't open your mouth if you don't know wtf you're talking about. Dumbass.

 

[maxwell]

Wow another retard to explain this to? Calculate psi load of a typical garage and then a typical vehicle and let me know which one needs more support. Hint it's the vehicle. A typical garage weights absolutely nothing for how spread out the weight is. Don't open your mouth if you don't know wtf you're talking about. Dumbass.

I guess I was sleeping when professor cyle was teaching my foundation mechanics class. My bad! I guess since your parking a D10 in your garage and sitting it 2 floor jacks Your argument might have some validity. You may be correct in saying the load of 4 tires is more than the finished garage spread out over the sill plate. Although I haven't actually calculated it yet and I doubt it. There are far more factors to consider. 3 feet of heavy wet snow on your roof, add some wind load, soil pressure, frost heave and a vehicle entering the garage constantly with the entire weight of the vehicle hitting the edge of the pad first. ( No they aren't lowered onto the center of the garage on a bed of feathers. Grade beams and concrete pads get wider when the load increases. This happens from calculations far beyond your mental capacity and from learnings of the past. Why does the building code continue to grow cyle? Because chit happens, things break and we learn from it and put measures in place to prevent it from happening again. ( Slab thickenings are a good example) your chit stinks. Stop putting bad info on the internet please. Just because you saw a cracked slab that had thickened edges once doesn't mean its gospel.

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[plio7]

Maxwell is right cyle, one thing people will sometimes do is add more rebar to an area under a vehicle ( in commercial anyways) the point load from any standard vehicle is not equal to the load from the walls, remember the long walls carry the load of that entire structures roof you add up lumber + sheeting+exterior finish of roof and walls then add you areas snow/wind load and that car doesn't seem very heavy anymore. I can scan and send you the 1st and 2nd year carpentry literature if you'd like it will explain all of the load factors and designs for all types of slabs, something maybe you should read before giving your advice........ You may be the best concrete show in town but some of us have gone to school for this

 

[X-it]

Well i have been retired for 4 years after spending 40 years as a carpenter things do change in 4 years.....but would you know it take a look at this you got to love the internet.

 

[OVERKILL 19]

God that bony can stir chit up for no reason but to hear himself talk. Well back to your original programming! I can only comment on what I did. I had to pour the 4 foot frost wall then poured the main floor after. For your size you won't have to that I'm sure. But as for a curb or not I like mine for washing the floor, walls don't get wet! But u also have a foot of concrete that is not insulated inside or out!

 

[ferniesnow]

Well i have been retired for 4 years after spending 40 years as a carpenter things do change in 4 years.....but would you know it take a look at this you got to love the internet.

Thanks for that. I wouldn't build my own with a 6" footing and I definitely wouldn't put anything on a clay base. Just my preference......

 

[Cyle]

Maxwell is right cyle, one thing people will sometimes do is add more rebar to an area under a vehicle ( in commercial anyways) the point load from any standard vehicle is not equal to the load from the walls, remember the long walls carry the load of that entire structures roof you add up lumber + sheeting+exterior finish of roof and walls then add you areas snow/wind load and that car doesn't seem very heavy anymore. I can scan and send you the 1st and 2nd year carpentry literature if you'd like it will explain all of the load factors and designs for all types of slabs, something maybe you should read before giving your advice........ You may be the best concrete show in town but some of us have gone to school for this

With 3 feet of really wet snow, you are likely very close to the weight of vehicles inside (depending what's in there). However, I really doubt it would be much more (if it's even more). Not talking cars, talking 2 1 ton's in a typical say 20x22 garage. Which is not uncommon, and which is not any kind of a issue for a 4" pad. The only time a spot can get heavy is if trusses load on your overhead door, the 2 areas they are supported on can see a ton of weight. Otherwise, it's spread out so much on the plates, it will not have any issues with a 4" pad. I have never seen, or even heard of a pad cracking away around the walls. Never. There is likely a reason for it. I'd really like to see evidence of it ever happening (when the pad is done properly). But I have seen plenty of times where a thickened edge is starting to settle and eventually will settle away from the rest of the pad.

There is no need for a 12x12" thickened edge. Many engineers will back it up. I have done a engineered pad 6" throughout, to a 1' 8" thickened edge(no piles or anything). That was for a 56x40 shop with 12' wood walls and 4' concrete walls. That grade beam alone weights probably 2 or 3 times the entire building. Tell me how a typical garage needs a 12x12" thickened edge? It doesn't, going from 4" to 12" is stupid and not a good idea. Plus, you put that on any questionable virgin soil, and your asking for it to settle. That is a lot of concrete weight on the edges.

Go with a 6" pad the entire way if your really worried about it, and you can park a 50k truck on it and not even bother it. And it will not cost anymore then a thickened edge. And, it's 100x the pad a thickened edge is. But it's completely overkill and unnecessary.

Just call some concrete people who have been around for a long time and see what they think of thickened edges the city recommends. Guarantee 90%+ will say they are a stupid idea and only do it because of the city wanting it.

 

[MATTIAC]

The reason for the footings below frost level for a certain minimum size is to accept the load of the wall/roof weight and point load. Your building inspector or engineer would take the calculations of the load and size your minimum size footing. If your shop is below that 5?? Square feet I'm sure you can get away with the 3.5" slab with thickened perimeter to 5.5" and do your 32 mpa concrete and 10mm rebar at 16" OC.

 

[Cyle]

I guess I was sleeping when professor cyle was teaching my foundation mechanics class. My bad! I guess since your parking a D10 in your garage and sitting it 2 floor jacks Your argument might have some validity. You may be correct in saying the load of 4 tires is more than the finished garage spread out over the sill plate. Although I haven't actually calculated it yet and I doubt it. There are far more factors to consider. 3 feet of heavy wet snow on your roof, add some wind load, soil pressure, frost heave and a vehicle entering the garage constantly with the entire weight of the vehicle hitting the edge of the pad first. ( No they aren't lowered onto the center of the garage on a bed of feathers. Grade beams and concrete pads get wider when the load increases. This happens from calculations far beyond your mental capacity and from learnings of the past. Why does the building code continue to grow cyle? Because chit happens, things break and we learn from it and put measures in place to prevent it from happening again. ( Slab thickenings are a good example) your chit stinks. Stop putting bad info on the internet please. Just because you saw a cracked slab that had thickened edges once doesn't mean its gospel.

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From a surveyor? Funny. Sooooo funny.

Ask almost anyone who knows anything about them, they will agree they are a stupid idea in the way the city recommends them. Concrete varying 8" in that short of distance spells disaster, along with 12" thick of concrete.

If you think the citys code is so good, why not just put the 3 15mm bars in the edge and nowhere else. It's not code......You don't need rebar anywhere else. See how well that pad stands up without it.

 

[Cyle]

The reason for the footings below frost level for a certain minimum size is to accept the load of the wall/roof weight and point load. Your building inspector or engineer would take the calculations of the load and size your minimum size footing. If your shop is below that 5?? Square feet I'm sure you can get away with the 3.5" slab with thickened perimeter to 5.5" and do your 32 mpa concrete and 10mm rebar at 16" OC.

Did you fail to see the link above? No pad under 4" passes (and is stupid and to thin). Code isn't even rebar but 10mm 16" centers is a must.

 

[MATTIAC]

Did you fail to see the link above? No pad under 4" passes (and is stupid and to thin). Code isn't even rebar but 10mm 16" centers is a must.

Im sorry but a 2x4 on edge is 3.5" dumbass. A 2x6 is 5.5". But when is the form ever laying on the ground without being leveled to a inch or do above ground

 

[snopro]

Im sorry but a 2x4 on edge is 3.5" dumbass. A 2x6 is 5.5". But when is the form ever laying on the ground without being leveled to a inch or do above ground

Now were talkin"...

 

[Cyle]

Im sorry but a 2x4 on edge is 3.5" dumbass. A 2x6 is 5.5". But when is the form ever laying on the ground without being leveled to a inch or do above ground

Yep and anyone who does concrete is smart enough to know you keep the gravel down 1/2" to make up for it, so you have a 4" or 6" or whatever pad. Do you think when someone looks and measures the pad after goes "well a 2x4 is 3.5" so it's close enough"? When you build a house do you make it the size of the material? That's what I though, it doesn't matter what the material is, it matters what the end product needs to be.

 

[MATTIAC]

Yep and anyone who does concrete is smart enough to know you keep the gravel down 1/2" to make up for it, so you have a 4" or 6" or whatever pad. Do you think when someone looks and measures the pad after goes "well a 2x4 is 3.5" so it's close enough"? When you build a house do you make it the size of the material? That's what I though, it doesn't matter what the material is, it matters what the end product needs to be.

I obviously know a 2x4 will give you a 4" slab so why would you try to call me out on it. I build million dollar houses an have built warehouses and hotels and I'm only a master electrician. I'm no armature when it comes to
construction

 

[arff]

Now I am curious. I will look up concrete slabs for garages in the Alberta Building Codes. Tomorrow I will do some research.

 

[Cyle]

I obviously know a 2x4 will give you a 4" slab so why would you try to call me out on it. I build million dollar houses an have built warehouses and hotels and I'm only a master electrician. I'm no armature when it comes to
construction

You said 3.5", which is not 4". You didn't say 2x4 in the first post, you said 3.5". There's a difference.

 

[Cyle]

Now I am curious. I will look up concrete slabs for garages in the Alberta Building Codes. Tomorrow I will do some research.

Edmonton's was posted in the last page, there is no standard for all of alberta on it, but most cities are extremely similar.