Fuel Conditioner for Duramax, why it's not a good idea anymore...

[LBZ]

I see what your saying about the boosters. Still don't believe they would affect timing enough to cause issues but that's my opinion.

Good to know their are others out their in Alberta with the brains to be able to set up and actually understand what can be learned from using such tools. Like you said too many talkers and not many with experience around here. A few vendors on this site included.
Not sure what you use to do your tuning (I assume EFI Live) if you haven't already done so, check your turbo drive pressure sometime and see how your timing affects it. Makes it real easy to pick the right vane table setting on a vvt truck or just the right timing as well on aftermarket turbo's and LB7 to make smooth power and still good boost. Also surprisingly it will affect your CP a little too.
Newest testing going on by a few people is crank torsional deflection and torsional variation between the front and rear of the crank via the crank position sensors as well as harmonics to try and determine what is causing crank failures. Cool stuff.


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[jpgmtech]

In my job, I'm usually looking at long-term failure modes where running closer to the edges of tolerance has a cumulative effect over time. And I admit, it's a theory, but based on knowledge of what effects Cetane has on the flash rate. I've always found tuning to be a balancing act - and Turbo DP has a fairly significant effect on crank HP too.

And I must say that I haven't got to the point of breaking cranks on the Dmax yet... not tuning for that kind of power. I generally work with stock pumps and turbos, the everyday kind of truck that has to work too. But I wouldn't mind having a playtoy where that could be a problem... LOL.

 

[ZRrrr]

There is a fair bit of discussion regarding emulsifiers versus demulsifiers. Thought regarding demulsifiers (Stanadyne) is that the water is forced out of the fuel and drops to the bottom of the tank where that in itself can cause issues. Some "experts" say all that water sitting on the bottom of the tank will cause corrosion within in the tank and create suspended particles of rust and other junk (Technically you would think the filter(s) would pick those up). Hence why many will say not to run your diesel tank lower than 1/4 full. I have read that if you have a bottom drain for your tank then demulsifiers are OK as you can drain off the water on occasion. Also have read that doing a water removal treatment once a year with a product like Diesel Kleen 911 is a good option.

Regarding Cetane boost, apparently many ULS diesels are on the low end of the Cetane specification and therefore a Cetane booster will not "hurt". Is it necessary, likely not.

I am far from an expert! Just throwing out some of the stuff I have read up on. I like these debates and use them to become educated. Keep it coming.

 

[jpgmtech]

There is a fair bit of discussion regarding emulsifiers versus demulsifiers. Thought regarding demulsifiers (Stanadyne) is that the water is forced out of the fuel and drops to the bottom of the tank where that in itself can cause issues. Some "experts" say all that water sitting on the bottom of the tank will cause corrosion within in the tank and create suspended particles of rust and other junk (Technically you would think the filter(s) would pick those up). Hence why many will say not to run your diesel tank lower than 1/4 full. I have read that if you have a bottom drain for your tank then demulsifiers are OK as you can drain off the water on occasion. Also have read that doing a water removal treatment once a year with a product like Diesel Kleen 911 is a good option.

Regarding Cetane boost, apparently many ULS diesels are on the low end of the Cetane specification and therefore a Cetane booster will not "hurt". Is it necessary, likely not.

I am far from an expert! Just throwing out some of the stuff I have read up on. I like these debates and use them to become educated. Keep it coming.

Rust is not a problem on the Dmax tanks, they are all plastic. And the de-emulsifiers improve the action of the water separator in the filter. Win-win situation there actually. Just have to know which conditioner you are buying! It's easy to drain any water off the separator.

 

[Beels]

Good discussion guys.

Coming from the ag side of things, the OEMs also claim fuel additives aren't necessary, but we're still seeing equipment like combines that run at constant RPM all day long (this is where it's the most noticeable), become sluggish and low on power. All of my customers, I strongly recommend a canola based lubricity additive to combat the problem. The guys that put it in their bulk tanks before fuel is delivered, never have a problem. We'll see operators buying fuel filters like mad and chasing a problem they can't cure without adding a lubricant to the fuel. I have not seen a piece of equipment that a double treatment in the tank, hasn't cured within 30 minutes.

As far as vehicles are concerned, it would take a fairly substantial loss in power to notice in everyday driving due to varied throttle positions and driving conditions, so most people will never notice. A canola based additive will not change the water situation in the fuel, so I see no negatives in using it religiously. (I have in my '06 Dmax since I've owned it. 245k and hasn't seen a wrench other than maintenance(knock on wood))

 

[tex78]

Rust is not a problem on the Dmax tanks, they are all plastic. And the de-emulsifiers improve the action of the water separator in the filter. Win-win situation there actually. Just have to know which conditioner you are buying! It's easy to drain any water off the separator.

It's the injector lines that rust ect from the inside out cause of water on dirtymax's.

sent from A UNKNOWN PLACE IN TEA LAND

 

[jpgmtech]

It's the injector lines that rust ect from the inside out cause of water on dirtymax's.

sent from A UNKNOWN PLACE IN TEA LAND

As long as the fuel filter/water separator is working properly, no water can get to the injector lines...

 

[Syclone74]

This isn't about additives but figured it fits with this thread. Been hearing rumors that running died fuel in these newer diesels is hard on the injectors as well. Is this true? I've run died fuel in my 07 Dmax and now my '10 Cummings and haven't seen an issue. As for the additives from the looks of this thread I will no longer be using them anymore. Very informative thread. .

 

[polarisdragon800]

This isn't about additives but figured it fits with this thread. Been hearing rumors that running died fuel in these newer diesels is hard on the injectors as well. Is this true? I've run died fuel in my 07 Dmax and now my '10 Cummings and haven't seen an issue. As for the additives from the looks of this thread I will no longer be using them anymore. Very informative thread. .

Pretty sure died fuel is hard on everything. Haha

 

[Caper11]

This isn't about additives but figured it fits with this thread. Been hearing rumors that running died fuel in these newer diesels is hard on the injectors as well. Is this true? I've run died fuel in my 07 Dmax and now my '10 Cummings and haven't seen an issue. As for the additives from the looks of this thread I will no longer be using them anymore. Very informative thread. .

Dyed diesel fuel is now ULSD, the dye is added when the driver delivers the fuel. Back in 07 when the new diesels came with the DPF, the dyed diesel was considered off road fuel and was LSD at 500 ppm which could harm the emissions system of a newer truck requiring ULSD.


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[LBZ]

Not a problem up here but in some states dyed is not ulsd so guys gotta watch what they are putting in their truck.


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[Lococoin]

I have heard about a few CP4 failures, but we actually haven't had any failures in our neck of the woods, and we move ALOT of Duramax trucks. Between you, me, and the fencepost: there was quite a ruckus internally between GM and Bosch a few years back. Turns out both companies had to learn how to deal with North American fuel - GM had to build a better filter, and Bosch had to upgrade materials.

I haven't read through all the documents the companies had to submit to the NHTSA on the investigation, but I seem to remember the failure rate on the GMs were actually slightly higher than the Fords.

One thing is for certain. The failure rate in Canada is only a fraction of that in the states.

Hopefully long term it stays that way.