Frozen Septic Field.

[brendon444]

Lots of knowledge on this site so looking for some experience or advice. I have an acreage built in 2009 with a septic field supplied by a pump, don't have the field drawings yet but hoping to get them from the county when they open and if they have them on file. I moved in last summer and the field worked perfect last winter and up until now. I have a spot in my drain field where the water is bubbling to surface and im assuming my field is frozen or partially frozen. How deep are septic fields usually installed? and what keeps them from freezing? Frost charts show a little over 3ft for my area at the moment. Is the lack of snow cover and low temperatures the cause of this? As far as I no there hasn't been any problems in the past.

What are my options? anyone experience this?

I have installed a 1000 watt stock tank heater in the liquid side hoping to warm the fluid before it enters the field, not sure if this will help any.
My field is still taking most of the liquid with some coming to surface, I was gone over Christmas for 3 days so my system wouldn't of had any flow during that time but still wouldn't expect this to happen every time one leaves for a few days.

 

[rzrgade]

PM Rsaint on here , great guy .... Will help you out


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[rsaint]

Well usually when you see this problem your field is saturated and needs to be replaced if this continues in the summer, and yes low snow cover and brutal low temps do not help, as far as depth Alberta max depth is 3'. You could have partially frozen field.

 

[brendon444]

That is very shallow when the frost line is 7ft. Would think frozen fields would happen often. Is it just continually use from effluent that is suppose to keep them from freezing? Don't understand how these fields can work effectively in winter if the ground all around the field is froze. Little frustrated at this point as the field is only 7 years old.

 

[rsaint]

Where in Sask are you and yes septic fields do not work well in winter as far as bacteria goes, as long as your discharge line is draining back to tank the pump pressure will find a way out, the area that is wet I would suggest covering with straw and hope you get some snow cover and no foot or any other traffic over field, one test to see how your field is working is to see if your pump is cycling, once it shuts off from pumping out and finishes draining back pump should not come back on till you run more water or sewer into tank, if it pumps out again then thats not good some runs froze or just too full to accept any more effluent. Google SASKATCHEWANONSITE WASTEWATERDISPOSAL GUIDE lots of info there. One more thing is your stock water heater is a good idea but make sure its not touching anything plastic, there are floats and hopefully you have a hi water alarm in the tank.

 

[rzrgade]

Thank you Ron !


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[RGM]

Like Rsaint said If you can find a farmer with old hay bales to put over that will help

 

[brendon444]

Where in Sask are you and yes septic fields do not work well in winter as far as bacteria goes, as long as your discharge line is draining back to tank the pump pressure will find a way out, the area that is wet I would suggest covering with straw and hope you get some snow cover and no foot or any other traffic over field, one test to see how your field is working is to see if your pump is cycling, once it shuts off from pumping out and finishes draining back pump should not come back on till you run more water or sewer into tank, if it pumps out again then thats not good some runs froze or just too full to accept any more effluent. Google SASKATCHEWANONSITE WASTEWATERDISPOSAL GUIDE lots of info there. One more thing is your stock water heater is a good idea but make sure its not touching anything plastic, there are floats and hopefully you have a hi water alarm in the tank.

I am in Lloydminster Alberta. Looks like my pump doesn't drain anymore back after the initial draining out the weep hole and only pumps once more effluent goes into the liquid side of the tank. I have a tarp over the hole that is wet and with snow cover on top for insulation. The area will probably freeze solid over time with the water coming to surface every time it pumps. The heater I have in the tank is submersible and have it as far away from the floats and the high level alarm. Checked the temperature today and looks like the heater got it up to 13c, this heater stays on continuously. Hopefully the warmer water will thaw the field some to allow it to accept the flow. The bails are a great idea but I need to get the drawings from the county to see exactly where the lines run.

Thanks for the link looks like a lot of great information in that guide. Still amazes me they only install the lines 2-3' from surface, realize this is due to adequate filtration needed before it reaches ground water but still seems like way to much potential to freeze especially when one is away from home for an extended period of time. I'm sure a new septic field will be in my near future as it probably somewhat saturated or partially plugged with a combination of freezing.

 

[rsaint]

Usually when a in ground field fails the next alterative is a mound. Not sure if county will have drawings the permit issuing company will have a copy of permit not sure if Sask is government issued or private.

 

[brendon444]

Usually when a in ground field fails the next alterative is a mound. Not sure if county will have drawings the permit issuing company will have a copy of permit not sure if Sask is government issued or private.

Oh I assumed the county did everything in house, I will have to find out who the permit issuing company is, I am in Alberta now. Guess I should of mentioned and probably attributing but where my field is located the previous owner planted many trees around it. Very stupid I no and sure if its not failing now I will not get the expected life out of it. See once spring comes whether this issue continues. Will put the new field in the grassed area if the ground allows. Where my field is now there is a 10 ft area between the tree line but im sure the roots reach out into it.

Is a mound considered more reliable or more life expectancy? Would I be able to put the mound in this area or is it also effected by trees? Im sure there are many factors but what is the ball park figure for new field or mound? Was thinking 10k.

 

[52weekbreak]

Oh I assumed the county did everything in house, I will have to find out who the permit issuing company is, I am in Alberta now. Guess I should of mentioned and probably attributing but where my field is located the previous owner planted many trees around it. Very stupid I no and sure if its not failing now I will not get the expected life out of it. See once spring comes whether this issue continues. Will put the new field in the grassed area if the ground allows. Where my field is now there is a 10 ft area between the tree line but im sure the roots reach out into it.

Is a mound considered more reliable or more life expectancy? Would I be able to put the mound in this area or is it also effected by trees? Im sure there are many factors but what is the ball park figure for new field or mound? Was thinking 10k.

Can't speak to other places but Strathcona county has moved away from mounds and to treatment plants with above ground dispersal of effluent in tunnels covered with woodchips. Replaced my system in 2008 with a Jet system. Jet Wastewater Treatment Plant | Commercial and Residential Wastewater Treatment | Wastewater Treatment Companies There are other systems but this one replaced the existing septice tank and mound. Has worked very well.

 

[brendon444]

Can't speak to other places but Strathcona county has moved away from mounds and to treatment plants with above ground dispersal of effluent in tunnels covered with woodchips. Replaced my system in 2008 with a Jet system. Jet Wastewater Treatment Plant | Commercial and Residential Wastewater Treatment | Wastewater Treatment Companies There are other systems but this one replaced the existing septice tank and mound. Has worked very well.

Interesting system. What is the cost on this? Would the ground still not have the potential to freeze or saturate? Or is the effluent discharge deep into the ground with out the worry about it contaminating ground water as it is clean water.

edit: see you said it discharges above ground? Dont you have a lot of surface water and freezing in the winter.

 

[rsaint]

Planting trees around it is a good thing inspectors now like lots of vegetation around fields good wind break. Mounds have a very long life span, cost if in Alberta varies 3,4 or 5 bedroom and all
materials have to be hauled in for example 3 bedroom mound materials are 15 yrds washed concrete grade sand, 8yrds 3/4 washed crush gravel, 180 yrds fill sand and 50 yrds topsoil. 10k maybe on the low side.

 

[brendon444]

Planting trees around it is a good thing inspectors now like lots of vegetation around fields good wind break. Mounds have a very long life span, cost if in Alberta varies 3,4 or 5 bedroom and all
materials have to be hauled in for example 3 bedroom mound materials are 15 yrds washed concrete grade sand, 8yrds 3/4 washed crush gravel, 180 yrds fill sand and 50 yrds topsoil. 10k maybe on the low side.

I was under the assumption that planting trees right next to the drain field would cause the tree roots to intrude the line and plug them off. I have many poplars planted right next to the drain field and sure some may even be right over top. Guess time will tell. Will monitor through out the winter and hopefully can continue to get the effluent out of the tank and not resort to having to pump every week or having a huge skating rink.

 

[rsaint]

I was under the assumption that planting trees right next to the drain field would cause the tree roots to intrude the line and plug them off. I have many poplars planted right next to the drain field and sure some may even be right over top. Guess time will tell. Will monitor through out the winter and hopefully can continue to get the effluent out of the tank and not resort to having to pump every week or having a huge skating rink.

Treatment plants have to be in trees to be above ground if no trees then its a mini mound.

 

[deaner]

Do you see many of these treatment plants going in rsaint? How much do they run for the average house? Im curious because the price of septic systems in our area has kind of gone crazy. This might be a nice little side line if these werent TOO crazy.

 

[pano-dude]

Had this happen last Christmas. No snow cover and cold, one section of my field had 12"of ice on top of the ground. I did a bunch of research. One thing to look for toilets constantly running can over saturate the area. (Mine is gravity drain from tank )
In my case the splitter box was half plugged with sludge blocking one of the two lines. Which saturated the other line.
Tested the system after cleaning the box this summer and it took all the water i could put in it. No issues so far.

 

[rsaint]

Do you see many of these treatment plants going in rsaint? How much do they run for the average house? Im curious because the price of septic systems in our area has kind of gone crazy. This might be a nice little side line if these werent TOO crazy.

Not many in my area costs are out of most budgets, as far as what discharges from a treatment plant and regular system as far as phosphats and nitrates no different. I us the Proflo system simple just a compressor and aration bar very simple and in a 4 compartment concrete tank, cost of tank with extentions delivered to site about 15k then all install and type of field or disposal system known as at grade system that needs trees and covered by mulch or chips another 10kish. Lots of installeres around Edmonton area hosing people by 10-20k more than what its worth I call them septic gods sad but true, when you hear of a system costs over 30k for a large like 4 bedroom home, treatment plant start quizzing why.

 

[brendon444]

Had this happen last Christmas. No snow cover and cold, one section of my field had 12"of ice on top of the ground. I did a bunch of research. One thing to look for toilets constantly running can over saturate the area. (Mine is gravity drain from tank )
In my case the splitter box was half plugged with sludge blocking one of the two lines. Which saturated the other line.
Tested the system after cleaning the box this summer and it took all the water i could put in it. No issues so far.

Thinking mine may be plugged also attributing to this. Would mine have a distribution box since its using a pump or is it just pvc pipe branched off? Anyone use any septic additives that are marketed to eat the organic sludge in the field. Assuming this is snake oil but guess cheap enough may be worth a try as im not sure how I would clean it out if its just pipes.

 

[pano-dude]

Thinking mine may be plugged also attributing to this. Would mine have a distribution box since its using a pump or is it just pvc pipe branched off? Anyone use any septic additives that are marketed to eat the organic sludge in the field. Assuming this is snake oil but guess cheap enough may be worth a try as im not sure how I would clean it out if its just pipes.

Not sure about a splitter box on pumped system. The sludge on the bottom of your tank is good as long as it's healthy. It is where all the work is done. Any scum on top is the greases and this is bad for gravity systems as it can get carried over into the field.
There is no product out there that should be used. Natural organisms are all that is needed.
I dug out the splitter box and had a vac truck suck and flush. Back to the tank. Not much you can do until spring without doing alot of damage.