Farm shop build, well suppose to be built already...

[ippielb]

I'm curious what you guys would do in this situation. Last fall we contacted a company to build a pole shed shop for our farm, 60'w x 80'l with a 16' lean on the side for office, mechanical, bathroom and storage. The time frame for getting it built was september of 2023 this year. Not an ideal time for us because we are harvesting during september, but we can make it work. We need the shop. All summer i spent all my free time building the pad(with a laser, and grader, it's perfectly flat smooth compacted), doing the water line, installing a septic tank and pump out etc. We have given them a large deposit to get things started.

September comes, and goes, and october as well. We get 1/2" of rain to soak everything for a day, then temperatures here dropped second half of october, and we got quite a bit of snow, twice, we cleared the snow both times, and with temperatures down to -20 the ground froze wet., The end of October comes, beginning of November and temperatures go crazy. Double digits, now everything that was froze wet, is now thawed out, soaked, and soft. They decide they're going to come try and build the building now of course. They drop some stuff off on a saturday, and Sunday night it pours rain all night long. They show up in the morning on the monday and we got another almost inch of rain.

After investing so much time and money into the pad getting it perfect, i did not want them driving their equipment on the pad, regardless of how good it was done, after a freeze thaw cycle and equipment turning, lifting driving all day long every day, they were going to destroy the pad. The surface was soft. I did not want it to freeze all rutted up. So i convinced my dad to send them on their way they can go build the next building until it freezes enough here that the pad wont get ruined by them driving on it. They were not happy, but reluctantly agreed to go start their next building. They were at minimum a month late, they can wait a few weeks for it to freeze to build our building. The foreman was ticked right off. So all their guys leave, the foreman was last to leave with a semi, and a traxle flat deck and a zoom boom. My dad had told him that he needed to back up around into the yard to leave,.

Let's just make a note about the whole reason they are not building our building is that we do not want anyone to drive on the pad. We want to wait till it freezes. Well the foreman backs up the semi, and backs it up right on the pad. I seen him do this and i walk out in his line of sight and arms open and get upset, for obvious reasons. He and i did not see eye to eye at all, he claimed it was not a big deal, i can just blade it again. I'm upset that we didn't want anyone driving on the pad and he disregarded a simple request. I tried to make amends, and explained why i was upset, and then tried to help him back around the corner but he was having none of it. Didn't take my help, then when he got turned around he stopped and went and loaded up the second zoom boom and left.

Now it's December, our water lines is still hanging out in the freezing cold with a heating cord around it, and tried to insulate it as best we can, and clearly it wasn't enough the valve cracked. And they're still not back, the company owner contacted us and said that his crew(i'm assuming the foreman) does not want to come and build our building. But the owner claims they can come and drill all the holes for the poles in a couple weeks, and put the concrete plugs at the bottom. Then come back in January to finish the building.

I'm at the point where i'm severely doubting the builders now, being unable to follow simple directions, cutting corners trying make their life easier. Now with a negative attitude towards us, and building it in January. I'm worried that they're going to just slap it together and not care, as long as it's "done". Keep in mind, we were told the building would be built in September, giving us ample time to get the power, in floor heating, and concrete installed before winter. Them being late is just adding more and more expenses and time onto us, clearing snow, buying heating elements to keep chemical/fertilizer warm over winter, storing windows, and a large bifold door. If we did want natural gas trenched into the yard it's now an extra 30% for frost.

What would you guys do in our situation?

 

[niner]

As a builder if I was told I couldn’t work in the mud to save the pad I would walk away from the job. The job has to get done and can’t control the weather. That’s why I own a 65’ man lift on trax just to deal with mud. I can see waiting a day or two to let it dry but to get them to leave after they already moved in and ready to start is hard. We never give start dates or completion time as weather can really mess with time lines.

 

[sledneck__11]

Thats a tough situation u have 2 options tell them to wait to spring and start again or just wait till its frozen enough and let them have at it sucks they wernt there when they were suspose to be but they came and u pushed them away its easier to fix a pad rather then to do stuff when it -30 but i get it we had similair scenario on our 60x180 shop pad
But they cant control the weather and they did the best they could to not make it worse then it had to be

 

[tex78]

Ya we don't want to talk about my shop build I'm doing now

Screw piles done twice because first time they were out 4-5 inches , put me behind a good month

Get them done right and get shop build day planned, got columns up , frame up , went to put purlins and girts up , nothing lines up

Found they updated the mounts , but not the holes

Had to drill hundereds and hundreds of holes , another 2-3 weeks behind , all the help i had lined up is now busy with life ffs

Supposed to be a bolt up , 3-4 guys , 3-4 days to get tin on

Missing brackets , chit not welded , too long ect , had a gene lift for over 2 months ( thank God it was a buddies and free )

Only got roof tin up , and 3 walls tinned

5000 plus out of pocket for the extra

Really pissed about it

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[ippielb]

As a builder if I was told I couldn’t work in the mud to save the pad I would walk away from the job. The job has to get done and can’t control the weather. That’s why I own a 65’ man lift on trax just to deal with mud. I can see waiting a day or two to let it dry but to get them to leave after they already moved in and ready to start is hard. We never give start dates or completion time as weather can really mess with time lines.

That’s what I was wondering if I was in the wrong, but we were told September and given that time frame so we had everything lined up, and it’s really screwed us over. We had zero rain from August till the snow in October. There is no drying in the end of October around here, just freeze drying. All they brought was a single gooseneck trailed, and then the two zoom booms on a step deck behind a semi, no building supplies or anything. The large bifold door has been in the way in our yard since beginning of October though. So they weren’t fully moved in yet, if they had all the supplies here to start building it, it would’ve been a different story.

Thats a tough situation u have 2 options tell them to wait to spring and start again or just wait till its frozen enough and let them have at it sucks they wernt there when they were suspose to be but they came and u pushed them away its easier to fix a pad rather then to do stuff when it -30 but i get it we had similair scenario on our 60x180 shop pad
But they cant control the weather and they did the best they could to not make it worse then it had to be

It froze hard a few days after they left, so it’s been frozen enough for over 3 weeks. And I do not have the equipment to fix the pad once the building is up, that’s the issue. Plus hard to fix it once it’s frozen solid. They want to drill holes in two weeks, and build the rest of the building in January. Weather was fantastic for building in September and most of October.

 

[ippielb]

Ya we don't want to talk about my shop build I'm doing now

Screw piles done twice because first time they were out 4-5 inches , put me behind a good month

Get them done right and get shop build day planned, got columns up , frame up , went to put purlins and girts up , nothing lines up

Found they updated the mounts , but not the holes

Had to drill hundereds and hundreds of holes , another 2-3 weeks behind , all the help i had lined up is now busy with life ffs

Supposed to be a bolt up , 3-4 guys , 3-4 days to get tin on

Missing brackets , chit not welded , too long ect , had a gene lift for over 2 months ( thank God it was a buddies and free )

Only got roof tin up , and 3 walls tinned

5000 plus out of pocket for the extra

Really pissed about it

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I’ve been wondering if a steel building would’ve been the better option for me, that way I could’ve put it together myself with my excavator to lift the pieces and just bolt it together. But I would’ve lost a few years life expectancy if I had your situation.

 

[tex78]

I’ve been wondering if a steel building would’ve been the better option for me, that way I could’ve put it together myself with my excavator to lift the pieces and just bolt it together. But I would’ve lost a few years life expectancy if I had your situation.

The columns and frame went up slick


Definitely if chit was done right , had all the stuff , would be easy to bolt it and go


I can see how it would go easy and fast, I'm just not that lucky I guess


The instructions suck too boot


I just hope I get paid back from the company, owner said he would, guess we will see

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[Megrizzly]

Better have a diplomatic and calm face to face with the owner and foreman to start over. Each of you had their reasons, but starting off a project like this on the wrong foot is a recipe for disaster.

 

[scotts]

Better have a diplomatic and calm face to face with the owner and foreman to start over. Each of you had their reasons, but starting off a project like this on the wrong foot is a recipe for disaster.

This might be your best bet, but I get your grief. had pretty much the same thing happen when we had ours put up! Perfect weather for weeks and the day the building showed up it rained and snowed so much I had to pull the picker in and out of the yard! the weather did straighten out before the crews showed up to build but it was still a mess, pad and apron were destroyed. 5 years later it’s all done and it all worked out in the end!
that all being said, I don’t think building a pole shed on frozen ground is ever the best situation, and these quick build crews aren’t the most precise guys in the world either!
I think you’re a dirt guy, so the pad and grade is very important to you! I know it sucks ass but you might be better off to purge your water lines, tarp your ground so you don’t soak the ch!t out of it and have to rework the pad anyway and wait for better days in the spring! Maybe request a different crew too if personalities crashed the first time! The crews that did our Goodon building was incredible but on the other hand I’ve had their relatives( if you get what I’m saying) come and set up bins and the job was awful! some of those guys are real dicks!
You only get one chance at doing it right so maybe pressing pause would be a good plan!

Ps. where the hell are you at that it’s raining, I’m 30 miles west of Loyd and it is incredibly dry here!

 

[ctd]

I'm not in Sask so I do not understand the ground you are working with. When I built my shop we were dealing with with 4' of clay. It was all removed plus the area around the shop for driveways & storage. Pit run was brought in & compacted then finished with crush to the correct building elevation. Huge additional expense, nothing has moved, many winters have come & gone.

The shop build started in November, probably the wettest November in history @ that time. Nothing moved then or today.

I would do this again if I were to build in that type of soil condition.......I've seen the results of other builds in the area not doing this.

 

[niner]

Sometimes you have to work in this.

To get this. 4 years later still looks like the day we finished. Rain happens.

 

[ippielb]

Also to clear things up, we wanted them to wait till it froze and they were the ones who decided to go build the other building.

Better have a diplomatic and calm face to face with the owner and foreman to start over. Each of you had their reasons, but starting off a project like this on the wrong foot is a recipe for disaster.

That or make myself scarce when they're around building, with me being the bad guy it sounds like they've become easier to deal with my old man.

This might be your best bet, but I get your grief. had pretty much the same thing happen when we had ours put up! Perfect weather for weeks and the day the building showed up it rained and snowed so much I had to pull the picker in and out of the yard! the weather did straighten out before the crews showed up to build but it was still a mess, pad and apron were destroyed. 5 years later it’s all done and it all worked out in the end!
that all being said, I don’t think building a pole shed on frozen ground is ever the best situation, and these quick build crews aren’t the most precise guys in the world either!
I think you’re a dirt guy, so the pad and grade is very important to you! I know it sucks ass but you might be better off to purge your water lines, tarp your ground so you don’t soak the ch!t out of it and have to rework the pad anyway and wait for better days in the spring! Maybe request a different crew too if personalities crashed the first time! The crews that did our Goodon building was incredible but on the other hand I’ve had their relatives( if you get what I’m saying) come and set up bins and the job was awful! some of those guys are real dicks!
You only get one chance at doing it right so maybe pressing pause would be a good plan!

Ps. where the hell are you at that it’s raining, I’m 30 miles west of Loyd and it is incredibly dry here!

I use to build streets and roads mainly for a living until i started my own business excavating and land clearing so dirt is my thing yep. Always irritated me when the paving crew came in and did burn outs on the base and ripped it up. It never goes back to the way it was before. That's my concern, i know the build crew just sees it as another building, and now the foreman is already not wanting to build it so whos to say they're going to build it right. There is only one chance at it. Not everyone is like me where i got grief from someone, i try to prove them wrong and do the job perfectly to shut them up and give them nothing to complain about. I'm south east of Regina and north west of Weyburn. We didn't get any rain in April, some in may and june, not much in July, or beginning of august, and then not a drop from mid august till end of October, but then got moisture when the sun's too low, and temperatures aren't enough to dry anything. It could've come all over the summer instead.

I'm not in Sask so I do not understand the ground you are working with. When I built my shop we were dealing with with 4' of clay. It was all removed plus the area around the shop for driveways & storage. Pit run was brought in & compacted then finished with crush to the correct building elevation. Huge additional expense, nothing has moved, many winters have come & gone.

The shop build started in November, probably the wettest November in history @ that time. Nothing moved then or today.

I would do this again if I were to build in that type of soil condition.......I've seen the results of other builds in the area not doing this.

It's a clay gumbo crap and alkaline. We hauled in clay from a few miles away that is sandier and way better then what we have around the farm here. I was never a fan of pit run since it's all rounded and sandy, i'd prefer a clay base. The pit run doesn't get as good compaction as a crushed aggregate either, though it is a lot cheaper. Sharp edges grab better, and add a little clay for a binder with the fines. Add moisture and compact when it dries it's great. The pad i have built right now is mainly clay with a tiny bit of gravel/pit run mixed in from when digging it out from the pit. But build up in 6" layers, and compacted with a padfoot until it walked out. Last lift was compacted with the tires of the grader and was only around 3-4", semi with a triaxle clamdump, fully loaded didn't even deflect at all when driving on the pad. The padfoot wouldn't even leave a mark. Freeze thaw cycles, and moisture did a number on it.

Sometimes you have to work in this. To get this. 4 years later still looks like the day we finished. Rain happens.

Sheesh thats ugly mess, i'd hate to was that zoom boom after... I just got my track loader absolutely disgustingly muddy burying some burn piles in the bottom of a slough, and had to rent a hot water pressure washer to clean the track links out a couple days ago not fun to wash stuff in end of november. But if the mess was going to be on the outside of the building i would've been not looking forward to the mess, but we would've dealt with it. At least on the outside of the building i can clean the mess up easily. But like i said i do not have equipment to get inside the building and clean up the ruts and then try and get compaction back, my packer is a tow behind i built.

 

[snochuk]

Well that was a long read.
As a managing constructor of heavy industrial for well over 30 years I'd say it sounds like a pretty light duty pad and no positive drainage to work site.
Not a big building and it costs the contractor to mob and demob, no margin on a small building for that process.
If not allowed to work free of stopages I would have walked on the job.
All deals are off when stopped by client regardless of contract, unless weather written into contract.
But just my two bits and I don't know the whole story, just one side and I don't judge until I see both sides of the pancake.

 

[ippielb]

Well that was a long read.
As a managing constructor of heavy industrial for well over 30 years I'd say it sounds like a pretty light duty pad and no positive drainage to work site.
Not a big building and it costs the contractor to mob and demob, no margin on a small building for that process.
If not allowed to work free of stopages I would have walked on the job.
All deals are off when stopped by client regardless of contract, unless weather written into contract.
But just my two bits and I don't know the whole story, just one side and I don't judge until I see both sides of the pancake.

Yeah, was a long post but I didn’t want to just leave a ton of info out people wouldn’t have understood. Water sits on perfectly flat concrete too there was no lake sitting on the pad, but it is clay and with the moisture and freeze thaw cycle clay will be clay and get greasy. It froze solid two days after, we only wanted them to wait for it to freeze since we had to wait for them, they opted to go build a different building.

I’ve never built a building, or had contracted any company to do work like this before. The builder is only here to put the pole building up, no concrete no wiring, no plumbing.

So I just want to get this clear for me since I haven’t been exposed to this before. Even though we were told it would be built in September, would it still be okay for the contractor to walk away from the job because of what happened?

 

[pipes]

I've worked in these conditions before. Not much work actually happens toward the build, but a lot of time and wear and tear on the equipment.

 

[sledneck__11]

Yeah, was a long post but I didn’t want to just leave a ton of info out people wouldn’t have understood. Water sits on perfectly flat concrete too there was no lake sitting on the pad, but it is clay and with the moisture and freeze thaw cycle clay will be clay and get greasy. It froze solid two days after, we only wanted them to wait for it to freeze since we had to wait for them, they opted to go build a different building.

I’ve never built a building, or had contracted any company to do work like this before. The builder is only here to put the pole building up, no concrete no wiring, no plumbing.

So I just want to get this clear for me since I haven’t been exposed to this before. Even though we were told it would be built in September, would it still be okay for the contractor to walk away from the job because of what happened?

Things happen and builds get pushed back all the time its shitty but it is what it is they run into issues on other jobs and it goes down the line they have a expectation of what they can do in a year but if they went to everyjob and had to wait for weather u could see how your date will have got pushed also we waited for 1.5 years for overhead doors snd we had to buy special tarps and hord the building in ch!t happens but when someone shows up to do the work and u push them away u cant blame the builders, now they can dick around all they want and say there came once and u shipped them away 2 months behind on a build start date is not really much of a delay

 

[snochuk]

Yeah, was a long post but I didn’t want to just leave a ton of info out people wouldn’t have understood. Water sits on perfectly flat concrete too there was no lake sitting on the pad, but it is clay and with the moisture and freeze thaw cycle clay will be clay and get greasy. It froze solid two days after, we only wanted them to wait for it to freeze since we had to wait for them, they opted to go build a different building.

I’ve never built a building, or had contracted any company to do work like this before. The builder is only here to put the pole building up, no concrete no wiring, no plumbing.

So I just want to get this clear for me since I haven’t been exposed to this before. Even though we were told it would be built in September, would it still be okay for the contractor to walk away from the job because of what happened?

What ever they started when they left your place they will finish.
They will not mob and remob from that job also.
Then you will likely get a turn again.
Better let them do their thing this time.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

The columns and frame went up slick


Definitely if chit was done right , had all the stuff , would be easy to bolt it and go


I can see how it would go easy and fast, I'm just not that lucky I guess


The instructions suck too boot


I just hope I get paid back from the company, owner said he would, guess we will see

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Mind me asking where you got your building from?

 

[tex78]

Mind me asking where you got your building from?

Nope , csd out of golden

Toro, future ect all similar

Owner says he's going to make it right

8 to 10 g is about where I'm at , time will tell when I tell him , which I need to do soon


Even the roof screws were these plastic head self drillers , there wasn't a roof company that would use em , 1000 bucks from westform lol for proper ones

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[Bnorth]

All the builders in this thread are like if we alter the schedule that's ok it is how it goes but if the customer alters the schedule fawk that guy... LOL.