Environmental dilemma

[fhe]

Heard today on the morning news that Cameron was comparing the oilsands (as he was flying overhead in a helicopter) to the clear-cutting in the Amazon forest, and that he is concerned about the indegenous people who are losing their land, and that the native people speak for the wildlife and blah blah blah.. he was comparing the whole thing to Avatar too, no joke.. they were saying he said stuff like "the Native here are like the Pandora's.. " or whatever, I dunno.. it was funny though.

...compared to clear cutting the Amazon forest... The oilsands only clearcut point 1% of 1% of the entire Boreal forest in Canada. And of that 22% has been reclaimed. But we can still do better. I'm all for a better effort. Should be interesting to see how distorted his comments will be after his tour.

 

[shoppingcart111]

...compared to clear cutting the Amazon forest... The oilsands only clearcut point 1% of 1% of the entire Boreal forest in Canada. And of that 22% has been reclaimed. But we can still do better. I'm all for a better effort. Should be interesting to see how distorted his comments will be after his tour.

Yes its comparable to the amazon, because the vast amounts of muskeg up there is exactly like the rain forest in it holds small indeginous tribes and all kinds of nearly wiped out specices like the mosquito and the tar sand beetle.:d

 

[RMK Junky]

An Avatar sequel in the making....http://newsnidea.com/23463/avatar-movie-box-office-results-and-avatar-revenue/Because the first one didn't make enough I guess.

 

[Billy Boy]

I like holding the world for ransom idea I can see it now we tell the rest of the world you pay us $ 10 bill a year for lets say 30 years, we then shut down the oilsands, roll up the streets in Fort Mac and let the Buffalo and Elk wonder where they want, everybory gets t sit around the campfire and sing Kombaya problem solved!! Except where is the U.S. going to get its dirty oil (maybe Iran or Venezuela) so they can refine it to jet fuel for the hollywood stars to fuel their executive jets; how would they get around to preach the environmental religion to the masses?

Billy Boy

 

[Phyer Phyter]

but i would be willing to bet if alberta refined* more product then there would be jobs and stability a plenty..................but do the math......over 90% of the product is shipped and refined elsewhere..........the numbers suggest that Canada as a whole only* refines 13% of it's raw product.........yet we import indirectly more than we refine...why is that?? Could we not refine more product here in this country so the fuel we use could be made more affordable to the people............the US has cheaper fuel prices than anada as a whole ...basically based on market share and consumption.........if Alberta refined more product we could export our excess for profit that would offset the production and refining cost, and make fuel more consumer cost friendly..........Government control of the oil and gas industry could make life in canada allot better for canadians.I think we as albertans should be benefiting more from the resources we have...........sorry to get off the topic again...... but* yeah* bogger I wish there was more continuity within the industry as related to the job market.......... and i'm sure you do too.

The catch here is that the oil companies are AMERICAN so their interest is sending the oil to the US so that AMERICAN companies refine the oil, make a ton of money, sell the refined product, make a ton of money... see a pattern? And when the oil is gone, what will we have to show for it? Oh ya an environmental disaster...

It is Canadian oil in Canadian soil pulled out of the ground by US companies, and; processed or raw is sent to the US for the US to make the major profits on. What do we get? Pennies on the dollar in royalties. What happened to the 6 billion that the Govt (on Klein's watch) forgot to collect? Just evaporated like smoke. Ever see a bank let 5 bucks slip through its fingers?

Canada has literally sold itself out and now people are just starting to think WTF... Oh ya, how well is NAFTA working for us? Oh yea, it isnt.

 

[fat tire]

The catch here is that the oil companies are AMERICAN so their interest is sending the oil to the US so that AMERICAN companies refine the oil, make a ton of money, sell the refined product, make a ton of money... see a pattern? And when the oil is gone, what will we have to show for it? Oh ya an environmental disaster...

It is Canadian oil in Canadian soil pulled out of the ground by US companies, and; processed or raw is sent to the US for the US to make the major profits on. What do we get? Pennies on the dollar in royalties. What happened to the 6 billion that the Govt (on Klein's watch) forgot to collect? Just evaporated like smoke. Ever see a bank let 5 bucks slip through its fingers?

Canada has literally sold itself out and now people are just starting to think WTF... Oh ya, how well is NAFTA working for us? Oh yea, it isnt.

I'm willing to bet there are allot of like minded individuals who all think the same of the USA Oil........owning most of the worlds resources........thats why I commented on chavez.........venezuela actually catered to the US oil companies to come to the country and build the infrastructure needed to get the product into production and to market.........then being a comunist country...they basically said* yeah now it's ours...get out* and* if you want it* this is* the price...........it* didnot benefit everyone in the country* but the place* didn't turn into a ghost town either........I think alberta could* do* better by it's people by doing something very similar.....................instead of towing the line of the last post.......Oh who owns petrocanada now ....suncor.......federal gov't and provincial sold us all out on that one.

 

[fargineyesore]

I agree we should do more refining in Alberta, but everytime the industry files for permission to build a plant in this province the Enviro-nuts and residents object to the "adverse environmental and economic impacts" so what do we do with them?

 

[green-horn]

I agree we should do more refining in Alberta, but everytime the industry files for permission to build a plant in this province the Enviro-nuts and residents object to the "adverse environmental and economic impacts" so what do we do with them?

: Would you like a refinery in your backyard? The oilsands can be managed properly provided there is an unbiased watchdog with teeth.

 

[tredeb]

I agree we should do more refining in Alberta, but everytime the industry files for permission to build a plant in this province the Enviro-nuts and residents object to the "adverse environmental and economic impacts" so what do we do with them?

The additional problems with refining here is what to do with the refined products. So essentially, instead of sending one product to the USA, you need to send a bunch of products. That creates a whole mess of transportation and infrastructure problems.

Additionally, there are existing refineries in the US. These refineries are not going to shut down and they need product to remain at capacity. If we do not fill them with Canadian oil, they will be filled with oil from somewhere else. The end user, which is the US consumer whether people like it or not, will not buy refined products from Canada until all the US refined products are consumed. So all we will end up doing is limiting our market share of the US market.

Finally, Fat Tire, if you think that Hugo Chavez is a good guy and has made Venezuela a better place, I think you need to do a little more research. The last thing the oilsands or Alberta needs is government interference.

Also, FWIW, it's easier to hit 'enter' than ........... it would make your posts much more readable.

 

[fargineyesore]

: Would you like a refinery in your backyard? The oilsands can be managed properly provided there is an unbiased watchdog with teeth.

Obviously no one wants a refinery in their back yard. There are large areas that Municipalities zone to Heavy Industrial that these facilities are to be located in. Even with that, you get the objectors, even if they live nowhere near the sites. Tell me then, if we want more refining in our Province, where should we put them?

 

[Pinner]

Additionally, there are existing refineries in the US. These refineries are not going to shut down and they need product to remain at capacity. If we do not fill them with Canadian oil, they will be filled with oil from somewhere else.

Whenever the price of fuel goes up, they always say there is a lack of refineries, and when there are shortages of fuel which seems to happen far too often (imagine the chaos without fuel in the winter) they also blame that on a lack of refineries. We are only one major fire or pipeline break away from a disaster, I would like to see at least one more refinery. A lightning storm caused a gas shortage just this summer.

The last thing the oilsands or Alberta needs is government interference.

You sure about that, anybody that's been around the patch for awhile has seen unspeakable contamination of the environment, the same big oil companies that are here in the oil sands, are polluting the environment in other countries at unimaginable levels because they are not interfered with.

 

[fat tire]

The additional problems with refining here is what to do with the refined products. So essentially, instead of sending one product to the USA, you need to send a bunch of products. That creates a whole mess of transportation and infrastructure problems.

Additionally, there are existing refineries in the US. These refineries are not going to shut down and they need product to remain at capacity. If we do not fill them with Canadian oil, they will be filled with oil from somewhere else. The end user, which is the US consumer whether people like it or not, will not buy refined products from Canada until all the US refined products are consumed. So all we will end up doing is limiting our market share of the US market.

Finally, Fat Tire, if you think that Hugo Chavez is a good guy and has made Venezuela a better place, I think you need to do a little more research. The last thing the oilsands or Alberta needs is government interference.

Also, FWIW, it's easier to hit 'enter' than ........... it would make your posts much more readable.

I think any pipeline company would take the product from here and ship it anywhere it is required. isn't that there business transportation,I say refine it here.also I didn't say chavez is a good guy....................................I said he made a decision not to allow big oil to run the show........ also do you like the .......................s* if* not* too bad. just an opinion, so don't jet your panties in a knot!

 

[fat tire]

Whenever the price of fuel goes up, they always say there is a lack of refineries, and when there are shortages of fuel which seems to happen far too often (imagine the chaos without fuel in the winter) they also blame that on a lack of refineries. We are only one major fire or pipeline break away from a disaster, I would like to see at least one more refinery. A lightning storm caused a gas shortage just this summer.



You sure about that, anybody that's been around the patch for awhile has seen unspeakable contamination of the environment, the same big oil companies that are here in the oil sands, are polluting the environment in other countries at unimaginable levels because they are not interfered with.

good on ya pinner.....well said !!

 

[tredeb]

Whenever the price of fuel goes up, they always say there is a lack of refineries, and when there are shortages of fuel which seems to happen far too often (imagine the chaos without fuel in the winter) they also blame that on a lack of refineries. We are only one major fire or pipeline break away from a disaster, I would like to see at least one more refinery. A lightning storm caused a gas shortage just this summer.



You sure about that, anybody that's been around the patch for awhile has seen unspeakable contamination of the environment, the same big oil companies that are here in the oil sands, are polluting the environment in other countries at unimaginable levels because they are not interfered with.

Yes I am sure. I am anybody and I have been around the oil industry for about 25 years, off and on. must have missed all the evironmental disasters that everyone else seems to have witnessed.

So, should an oil companiy invest billions of dollars into a refinery only to rum it at half capacity just in case something happens? At least then they would be able to turn up production to meet shortfalls. These plants are made to run at capacity and the economics deteriorate very quickly if they don't run at capacity.

You have basically outlined the theory of supply and demand. When the need is high, the demand is high and the price is high. and vice versa. If you artificially saturate a market, the price will fall and borderline projects will not go ahead. In a year or two, there will be a shortage and the prices will rise again and these delayed projects can go again.

FWIW, I don't view the oilsands as an environmental disaster.

If you guys want to live in a communist regime and make $10 a month go ahead. The rest of us will remain here and go sleddin'! Which, BTW, we could not do if we lived in a communist regime.

 

[fat tire]

Yes I am sure. I am anybody and I have been around the oil industry for about 25 years, off and on. must have missed all the evironmental disasters that everyone else seems to have witnessed.

So, should an oil companiy invest billions of dollars into a refinery only to rum it at half capacity just in case something happens? At least then they would be able to turn up production to meet shortfalls. These plants are made to run at capacity and the economics deteriorate very quickly if they don't run at capacity.

You have basically outlined the theory of supply and demand. When the need is high, the demand is high and the price is high. and vice versa. If you artificially saturate a market, the price will fall and borderline projects will not go ahead. In a year or two, there will be a shortage and the prices will rise again and these delayed projects can go again.

FWIW, I don't view the oilsands as an environmental disaster.

If you guys want to live in a communist regime and make $10 a month go ahead. The rest of us will remain here and go sleddin'! Which, BTW, we could not do if we lived in a communist regime.

You must be related to Stelmach.....ha ha ha ........maby 25 more years will do the trick.