Drinking & Riding?

[pipes]

Longhorn, I disagree with you on this thread being of little value. It opens up a lot of discussion and many people voice their opinions. I do agree with you that if one chooses to have a beverage on the hill that it is their business and if it threatens the the safety of me and my group then it becomes my business.
SledMamma, don't think for one minute that I wouldn't stop and talk to you just because I saw you holding a beverage in your hand. That is your choice and I don't make any bones about it.
Me taking water and only water up the hill is a personal choice, one that I made for Myself, I find that if I don't drink enough water when I work my arse off I get tired and find myself making mistakes.

Lets keep this thread civil and friendly. It would be a shame to have this thread locked down. Lot of good points made on either side of the argument (for a lack of better works)

 

[mudboy]

I guess I know how to be left alone on the trail now. Just sit there with an empty beer can and I will have peace and quite all day
. This thread can go side by side with people that smoke and request a no smoking room in a hotel only to sit in the bathroom with the exhaust fan on having a smoke.

 

[Longhorn]

Longhorn, I disagree with you on this thread being of little value. It opens up a lot of discussion and many people voice their opinions. I do agree with you that if one chooses to have a beverage on the hill that it is their business and if it threatens the the safety of me and my group then it becomes my business.
SledMamma, don't think for one minute that I wouldn't stop and talk to you just because I saw you holding a beverage in your hand. That is your choice and I don't make any bones about it.
Me taking water and only water up the hill is a personal choice, one that I made for Myself, I find that if I don't drink enough water when I work my arse off I get tired and find myself making mistakes.

Lets keep this thread civil and friendly. It would be a shame to have this thread locked down. Lot of good points made on either side of the argument (for a lack of better works)

Pipes...

Great point, I guess I was only meaning that I have seen posts like this get real ugly real fast. That was what I was meaning about no value...

I do however find it fascinating hearing the wide range of views on a single topic. I do agree, great points on both sides... and it sure is nice to be able to voice your opinion (so far) without being flamed so badly that you never want to participate again!

 

[dirtball08]

Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. I enjoy having a cold one after blazing around whether it's on the trail, the mtns, or around home. It's all a personal choice. Does this make a bad person? Everyone has their opinions. As long as everyone makes it home, it's all good.:d

 

[SledMamma]

Longhorn, I disagree with you on this thread being of little value. It opens up a lot of discussion and many people voice their opinions. I do agree with you that if one chooses to have a beverage on the hill that it is their business and if it threatens the the safety of me and my group then it becomes my business.
SledMamma, don't think for one minute that I wouldn't stop and talk to you just because I saw you holding a beverage in your hand. That is your choice and I don't make any bones about it.
Me taking water and only water up the hill is a personal choice, one that I made for Myself, I find that if I don't drink enough water when I work my arse off I get tired and find myself making mistakes.

Lets keep this thread civil and friendly. It would be a shame to have this thread locked down. Lot of good points made on either side of the argument (for a lack of better works)

Oh, I wasn't necessarily targeting you Pipes. I don't have a problem with your views. I just have a problem with righteous people who have stated on this thread that they ride away from and steer clear of those of us who pack beverages. I think its rather prejudicial to just assume that I am a danger. Of course, if a group or individual is visibily intoxicated, then I too would make the choice to give them a wide berth. I would happily share my water with you any day Pipes!

As for your comment Bogger... that just made me laugh and feel a little more human. I don't ever drink beer unless I am playing hockey or sledding, and it is my extreme exhaustion when doing either sport that makes it taste so good

Overall, this is a good discussion to have front and center. You can bet that somewhere there is a person (or twelve) who is not speaking up, who chooses to drink/lefty smoke on the hill on a regular basis, and who is right now re-evaluating their thinking based on what they are reading on this thread. And that can only lead to good things!!

+ =

 

[goodngrubby]

As part of a social activity, I always pack a few trail pops. I know my limit, and don't overdo it. My garbage comes back out with me, along with other peoples, so I really don't see a problem with it. Plus I drink light beer, so I don't get drunk, I just pizz a lot.

 

[ferniesnow]

I will NOT make friends on this... REPORT an impaired driver.... Oh that is right the boys will not sit at the parking lot... Cause the would need to bring in a lot more guys to help with the paper work. ZERO TOLERANCE

I have personally seen the RCMP at check stops coming out of Gorman and out of Coal Creek/Morrissey in Fernie.

If there were more of these it would eliminate the problem drinkers. IMHO, I don't think the RCMP bother much with the rider that has a beer here and there. They have way too much to doo.....

The thread has been great and I think what it really boils down to is "extremes" and we see that mostly whenever we ride: extreme drinking, extreme vandalism, extreme speed, exteme avalanche ignorance, extreme rudeness, etc.

Keep the discussion going and don't get p*ssed off, just plain old polite discussion and contributions.

 

[Modman]

I think what we are really talking about is "excessive" drinking here. Most of the "1-2 beer" crowd that replies to threads like this are generally pretty responsible and not raging alcoholics. But the debate always ends up with each side shaking a finger and splitting down the middle. Excessive drinking would be qualified as where the impact of booze starts to impair judgement or when you simply cannot go for a day ride without savouring the taste of sweet, mind-numbing alcohol. If you feel the NEED for booze during a ride or that it is a complete essential requirement and you would take a first aid kit out of your pack to ensure that you had enough room for a 6 pack, then its excessive IMO. All the replies I see on this thread are personal preference - but I haven't seen anyone saying that they have to drink when they are sledding or its their god given right.

I'm the devil's advocate actually, you decide for yourself - but I'll give you all some points to ponder and maybe they will make you think about which side of the fence you choose to sit on.

Righteous folks occur on both sides of the fence - As I read this thread its funny that there are the righteous folks who think that having a couple on the hill is OK, and there are the righteous who think that ZERO tolerance is the way to go. If you are telling people not to stop beside you and be righteous, are you not just as righteous (standing up for what you believe in)? People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Zero Tolerance - Its really funny to see lots of the so-called "righteous" people preaching zero tolerance during sledding, then think its OK to sit in the parking lot at the end of the day and drink 3-4 beer in a short timeframe and then drive home. uuuhhh - WTF?

If it affects you AND everyone - as already stated, but really, people are going to do what they want, regardless of other personal opinions. Sledders are strong willed people. But if drinking is going to affect other people on the hill (or children) then someone needs to have the realization that its not a good idea. If you are injured and have been consuming alcohol or illegal substances, you run the risk of someone not administering first aid. Many people will ask "how could you not help out an injured person?", but there are more and more cases of it showing up. Its against the law under the good samaritan act to start first aid and then stop, so people are now choosing wisely before they begin to treat someone. There is no right or wrong answer, but ultimately it comes down to self-preservation and how much risk you are willing to take to save someone else's life.

Also, drinking to excess and riding where you can injure others is just simply something that cannot be ignored. There is no end to what our group will do to stop someone from riding impaired.

"I know my limit" - Do you? Ever really done a facultative test to see what your reaction time is after 2 beers vs none? Bet even the 250lb+ crowd would be surprised how much it affects you. Some people metabolize alcohol really well and it does not really affect them. Some people use this as an excuse to drink on the hill. What you do depends on how honest you are with yourself, not with other people.

Power Vs Weight - BAC of 0.08 for highway limit, great argument. Could it be lower? Tough one. 3500 lb vehicle and lots of safety features. Does this protect you? In some cases. Does it protect people if they are hit by a drunk driver? Yes (their cars will protect them somewhat). Do the innocent always seem to be the ones that die? Yes. Am I advocating drinking and then driving in any way? NO, never. My point is this: Do the math on your SUV and figure out the power to weight, vehicle mass and figure out the safety features that will protect you. The speeds we see on trails are sometimes very close to highway speeds. Is it really easy to make a mistake on a sled? You bet. Did you not see the mogul in the shade of that tree? Minimal room for error on a sled since usually the areas where we ride carry far more risk if you make that mistake.

Now realize that your sled has the equivalent power to weight ratio of a high HP dragster but without any sort of protection. At least my race cars had 5 point harnesses and full roll cages. Your helmet will only protect your noggin, the rest of your body is very vunerable to severe damage from an impact and there is nothing holding your @$$ to the sled. High speed and less protection.....if you get injured it will be bad. Does alcohol play a part in reaction time? Scientifically proven it does.

Just some things to ponder.

 

[Bogger]

Common now Modman...... I was trying to weed out the common sense and get the extremeists ranting.....then you gotta go and make it all civil and factual........:d

Good post, good points, all true.....

My grandfather once said to me...... "What do you mean you're a safety guy.... how are we supposed to weed out the retards with people like you always saving the stupid........... stupid can't be fixed, Darwin must be rolling over in his grave........"

 

[JaySimon]

My insurance is void if I'm found to have any booze/drugs in my system.

There's a different angle to think about as well.

 

[xcya]

OK, LETS MAKE ANOTHER POINT HERE. THOSE WHO SAY, IT'S OK, SHOULD ASK YOURSELFS WHY THERE IS A ZERO TOLERANCE RULE AT ANY ORGANIZED SNOWMOBILE OR POWER SPORTS EVENTS.

NOW I WANT TO MAKE ANOTHER POINT, I DIDN'T START THIS THREAD TO GET PEOPLE PO'D, IT WAS JUST A CONCERN AFTER SEING THE HARD LIQOUR BEING CONSUMEED ON THE TRAIL. HATS OFF TO ALL YOU WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE. ALSO, WHY SHOULDN'T YOU BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT YOU? WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO OTHER PEOPLE. GETTING PO'D IS JUST PLANE IMATURE

 

[Bogger]

Zero tolerance at events is for insurance purposes.........

when sleding I'll have a couple, but sleds are very fast and I'm a novice rider so I'm careful......I drink alot more on my quad, people dissagree with it but to each their own, Is it smart? nope..I'm not foolish enough to say it is... Will I hurt anyone playing in the mud with an average speed just above what my winch is capable of? possibly myself but no one else...(If I road a sport quad I probably would limit myself as I do on the sled) Do I get fall down stupid drunk??? no but I'll pack a 6 pack with me on the quad for a 6 hour run.
For the record... I'm not pizzed off and never have been at any time while posting in this thread

Cheers.....

OK, LETS MAKE ANOTHER POINT HERE. THOSE WHO SAY, IT'S OK, SHOULD ASK YOURSELFS WHY THERE IS A ZERO TOLERANCE RULE AT ANY ORGANIZED SNOWMOBILE OR POWER SPORTS EVENTS.

NOW I WANT TO MAKE ANOTHER POINT, I DIDN'T START THIS THREAD TO GET PEOPLE PO'D, IT WAS JUST A CONCERN AFTER SEING THE HARD LIQOUR BEING CONSUMEED ON THE TRAIL. HATS OFF TO ALL YOU WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE. ALSO, WHY SHOULDN'T YOU BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT YOU? WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO OTHER PEOPLE. GETTING PO'D IS JUST PLANE IMATURE

 

[08summit]

I don't see anything wrong with spending 6-8hrs on the hill and consuming a couple beer over the course of this time while BS with the buddies and checking out the scenery.I do my share of sledding in the mountians each year and do not think there are many people out there that get pi$$ed while driving...I'm sure there is the odd one but this thread is making it look like the hills are full of Alcoholics that are a danger to themselves and everyone around them. This is a socialable activity where people are always going to stop for the odd beer.

As far as being illegal or "Voiding" your insurance as someone said is far from the truth UNLESS you are over the legal limit of .08...Just my 2 cents

 

[pipes]

08summit

As far as being illegal or "Voiding" your insurance as someone said is far from the truth UNLESS you are over the legal limit of .08...Just my 2 cents


JaySimon
Re: Drinking & Riding?
My insurance is void if I'm found to have any booze/drugs in my system.

There's a different angle to think about as well.



I'm guessing a young driver with a probationary license.

 

[SKIROULE]

This is a very intresting thread! The majority seems to be for drinking on the trail even though it is illegal and all seem to accept this in one way or another. My intrest in reading / participating in this thread was to find out what the overall view was and would paint a picture of where people are at. Imagine what the headline would be if the media got a hold of a thread like this! I'm not preachng to anyone on right or wrong but as for me I choose not to drink on the trail and save it for the hotel. I plan to get my kids involved in the sport but first I feel I must set a good example for them to follow.

 

[SledMamma]

The majority seems to be for drinking on the trail even though it is illegal...

I am confused. Is it really illegal PERIOD, or is it only illegal if you are over the legal alcohol limit? I'm not being argumentative, I am sincerely asking this question, because I honestly don't know...

 

[Longhorn]

I am confused. Is it really illegal PERIOD, or is it only illegal if you are over the legal alcohol limit? I'm not being argumentative, I am sincerely asking this question, because I honestly don't know...

'My Understanding' (I cannot find the fine print to back up, so take it for what it is...)

In BC snowmobiling 'under the influence' this means at ANY BAC is illegal. In Ontario the law is from .05 to .08 30 day loss of licesnse even if on an ATV or snowmobile.

I cannot find the Alberta rules/laws but the open liquor law would apply regardless but doesnt really cover 'operation' but booze within proximity of the driver would still be an offense. If I can find the actual laws, I will post.

 

[birdie]

People will always justify there way of seeing the Booze and sledding
but in my way of thinking the 2 do not Mix
Now I realise we are all Men & Ladies and we make choices with how we
live out our lives but it seems to me that the drinking could be left to the
places back at Hotels, Bars, cabins, Etc

There is really not reason for this to go on in a sport where we are having enough issues with Avy's, Cariboo Rights, Tree Huggers, Parks made bigger and lost areas to ride
Surely people we could get out act together and Go have Fun in the Hills

Ride hard Enjoy the Mountains and Go and have a drink afterwards

birdie
:d

 

[Longhorn]

I am confused. Is it really illegal PERIOD, or is it only illegal if you are over the legal alcohol limit? I'm not being argumentative, I am sincerely asking this question, because I honestly don't know...

Ok, I have done a lot of research tonight and this is a very vague question...and really hard to find a answer for...

You can be ticketed for being 'under the influence' but it seems that this judgement is made by either RCMP or Fish and Wildlife. This can be at any blood alcohol level. AFTER .08 then you are considered legally impaired, and can actually lose your drivers licesnse while snowmobiling. You can also be fined for 'open liquor' if seen consuming alcohol outside of any licensed establishment, so at the bottom of the hill, on the trail, at the cabin, it is absolutely illegal.

Anyways, I am done my research for tonight. Makes for interesting reading, and some very scary stats about snowmobile deaths. Ontario seems to have the best records of stats, real hard to find info about Alberta and BC.

 

[SKIROULE]

'My Understanding' (I cannot find the fine print to back up, so take it for what it is...)

In BC snowmobiling 'under the influence' this means at ANY BAC is illegal. In Ontario the law is from .05 to .08 30 day loss of licesnse even if on an ATV or snowmobile.

I cannot find the Alberta rules/laws but the open liquor law would apply regardless but doesnt really cover 'operation' but booze within proximity of the driver would still be an offense. If I can find the actual laws, I will post.

I will try and dig up some of the regulations but am quite sure that this will fall under illegal conveyance, possesion and consuming alcohol in a public place. really you would think it to be the same batch of charges as if you were drinking in a public park or like I said before if you had a couple of beers beside you on the seat of your truck. By my saying this is illegal I do not mean that it is against the law to drink period, it is illegal to have with you and to actually drink it on the trail. But as with Longhorn I will try and find print to back it up.