Crown Land Access

[linksys]

Does anyone know the rules regarding crown land access?

Are we allowed to access crown land on snowmobiles?

What about leased crown land that is still owned by the crown but leased by a farmer for grazing cattle?

 

[teeroy]

Does anyone know the rules regarding crown land access?

Are we allowed to access crown land on snowmobiles?

What about leased crown land that is still owned by the crown but leased by a farmer for grazing cattle?

you can access crown land on a snowmobile/dirt bike/atv provided you have proper insurance and registration and meet all requirements, such as headlight and tail lights as well as a spark arrestor. you can access lease land as well, but must respect the land lease in regards to cattle gates etc, if they are closed when you get there, make sure you close them after you pass through. a person holding a lease on crown land cannot prevent access by the public. a buddy of mine got beat up by a farmer that had a lease for cattle, dude freaked out and clubbed him with a fencepost...farmer joe was in the wrong and charged accordingly.

 

[linksys]

This may be a stupid question...a few friends were discussing this the other day.......but what if a fence gets put up right on a main trail. And the lesee did not put any gates to access the trails. Trails that were there long before he came along and leased the land.

Do we, the ATV'r/snowmobiler, have any rights of access when our access to a trail is blocked?

 

[teeroy]

I'm positive they have to include an access point somewhere, but I don't think it has to be where it is beneficial to others. but they cannot prevent public access, this I know for certain.

 

[Sledderglen]

Lots of issues on this topic. If it is leased the lease holder has the right to stop access with rules and conditions. Example if it is a grazing lease he can control access during cattle season. The lease holder cant control foot access as much as motorized access. If a real issue Public Lands and SRD and the leaseholder and you can work a deal out for access if denied by leaseholder that continues to denie access even when his use is not being used example Snowmobile use during winter when no grazing going on. Thats why you see horses wintering in some lease land. Control access to themselves and leave out the public.

Foot access rules. Hunters,hikers,birdwatchers,berry pickers just watch out for the farm animals

 

[snochuk]

I'm positive they have to include an access point somewhere, but I don't think it has to be where it is beneficial to others. but they cannot prevent public access, this I know for certain.

Not all leases are the same if the lease holder accepts environmental stewardship, then acces can be blocked to ALL forms of motorized vehicles year round. Glen is correct in the statement that foot access can not be blocked unless there are animals present. If lease holder claims livestock diturbance then foot access can be blocked. This is the agreement for the lease we just renewed as well as my cousins lease. The other way to block access is like Glen mentioned to keep horses during the off season. This usually happens when the farmer is tired of fixing cut fences which was an actual problem. It is the responsibility of the PERSON ACCESSING the lease to check the type of access allowed. Foot access can not be blocked in the grazing off season if no livestock is present.

Crown land should also be checked as there are restrictions to accessing certain areas that are not posted. These areas are typically protected due to their unique vegitation.....yes there are such places in north cental Alberta. Again it is the resposibility of the PERSON ACCESSING to do the research and check for restrictions (does your ATV met regulations for off road use...not all do as purchased or with certain exhaust mods).

Information on lease holders, lease type and access restrictions can be checked through municipality county offices. Same as checking for where you can hunt. Call in, get info, buy the $12-15 map, be legal and piss nobody off. While you are doing all of this it's a good chance to get the locals name off of the map and go visiting. Did this in Foremost antelope hunting last fall. Got access to a lot of areas just by talking to farmers servicing equipment early in the morning. Read the map and could carry on a conversation about neighbors names and where their land was...the locals pick up on this...still never shot nothing but added to the experience.

lynksys
Government of Alberta Sustainable Resource Developement is an exellent place to start for information, they give out hard copies if you go to see them that are more detailed than the website.

 

[teeroy]

yeah, you and Glen are correct....I wasn't thinking when I posted that motorized vehicles could access lease land at any time, just that it couldn't be closed to public access.

 

[Cat401]

Really good topic...we just came across this last weekend in the canyon between Hanmore / Whitemud area. A main route past what we call "the bowl" is now fenced, not along the trail but diagonally accross it. The guy did put a gate but not on the trail (where it should be in my opinion). I absolutely don't condone wire cutting and have never done it, but I see why it happens...block off a trail that has been used for years and don't put a gate or put a gate in a stupid area.

I'm sure the trail route through that area will get adjusted over time but you might want to be careful coming over one of those hills because you will slam into a 3 wire fence if your not carefull.

 

[BIGHORN1]

there is also something similar to this west of rocky on the old rail line, there is a gate right in the middle of the trail but it also has a chain and padlock on it. the trail has migrated around it over time and re-routed itself but i do not agree with fencing off land that is obviously crown land.

 

[HID power]

Don't do this although I hear it worked. About 10 years ago there was a local rancher who didn't want anybody accessing his leased CROWN land and put up locked gates and fences across many well used trails. It was fine in the summer when his cattle were there but in the winter the gates were still locked and no cattle. He was being a prick about it. Somebody, Not me (I was not into skidooing yet), but somebody cut the wires to make an opening in the wires. Then they proceeded to make about 15 openings to prove a point of allowing access to crown land. When he came back in the spring and had to fix his 5 wire fence in over 15 spots, he must have seen the light and common sense kicked in because he placed gates in the right places where the trails ran through. Not expensive steel gates but just a barbed wire opening between the 8 or 10' spaced posts. He placed signs asking to keep gate closed and those signs are still up today. Its amazing, sledders come through, see the signs, open the gates, close the gates and everybody respects each other and there have not been any issues since.
Its amazing how well things work when people respect each other and common sense is used.
Not sure why some farmers/ranchers see snowmobilers as a threat.

 

[snochuk]

Don't do this although I hear it worked. About 10 years ago there was a local rancher who didn't want anybody accessing his leased CROWN land and put up locked gates and fences across many well used trails. It was fine in the summer when his cattle were there but in the winter the gates were still locked and no cattle. He was being a prick about it. Somebody, Not me (I was not into skidooing yet), but somebody cut the wires to make an opening in the wires. Then they proceeded to make about 15 openings to prove a point of allowing access to crown land. When he came back in the spring and had to fix his 5 wire fence in over 15 spots, he must have seen the light and common sense kicked in because he placed gates in the right places where the trails ran through. Not expensive steel gates but just a barbed wire opening between the 8 or 10' spaced posts. He placed signs asking to keep gate closed and those signs are still up today. Its amazing, sledders come through, see the signs, open the gates, close the gates and everybody respects each other and there have not been any issues since.
Its amazing how well things work when people respect each other and common sense is used.
Not sure why some farmers/ranchers see snowmobilers as a threat.

If someone tried that stunt with the present lease agreements the farmer would be able to show the damage to SRD and the area would be permanently closed to all motorized access immediatly. No debates, no meeting with club, no nothing just closed, and closed forever! PERIOD!! I would not ever post or condone such an action as this would be the best way to piss the farmer off by causing him more work.

A much smarter action would be to show up with the materials to make a couple gates and get the OK to go build them. Show a little effort and you'll likley be in....be an ass and you'll be out. Cutting wires nowadays will just get everybody out in a hurry.....quadders and sledders.

I know a lot of lease holders in the area and if a fence gets cut you ain't gonna see no open gates, you will see a lot more steel gates and locks though.

 

[Sledderglen]

Our club trail system crosses private land many times. We open and close gates. A rancher had a quad issue opening his gates in the summer. That spring when we closed the gates we bought him some better gates that were a little stronger. He was impressed and now sees that we are there to help him.You need to work with the owner not against. A little help goes along way.

 

[barleyfarmer]

I have crown land that I lease for my cattle and there are rules that you place on your lease agreement that have to be approved by SRD.I have the same problem with guys cutting fences in the summer time on atv's because it's crown land!I open my fences every fall for sledders to pass through my lease,my lease is 640 acres in one block.Most leases are foot access only(mine included)when livestock are present during the timeline that you have approved by SRD.Most leases have the cattle off before hunting season because some people should not be able to own a rifle so its for the cows safety!!Alot of farmers have a problem with atv's on their leases because of any damage (quad ruts,etc)the farmer gets his ass chewed out by SRD for damage to the environment and everyone knows sh.. runs down hill!Most people are decent about it but it only takes one or two a-holes to ruin it for everyone else!You do have quite a bit of say who can access your lease because we also pay land taxes on a grazing lease,like private property.A person can go on SRD's website and you can look up the person to contact to access a lease and what ever rules they have applied on their lease.Not every farmer is an azzhole about access but just phone them first!

 

[Sledderglen]

I have crown land that I lease for my cattle and there are rules that you place on your lease agreement that have to be approved by SRD.I have the same problem with guys cutting fences in the summer time on atv's because it's crown land!I open my fences every fall for sledders to pass through my lease,my lease is 640 acres in one block.Most leases are foot access only(mine included)when livestock are present during the timeline that you have approved by SRD.Most leases have the cattle off before hunting season because some people should not be able to own a rifle so its for the cows safety!!Alot of farmers have a problem with atv's on their leases because of any damage (quad ruts,etc)the farmer gets his ass chewed out by SRD for damage to the environment and everyone knows sh.. runs down hill!Most people are decent about it but it only takes one or two a-holes to ruin it for everyone else!You do have quite a bit of say who can access your lease because we also pay land taxes on a grazing lease,like private property.A person can go on SRD's website and you can look up the person to contact to access a lease and what ever rules they have applied on their lease.Not every farmer is an azzhole about access but just phone them first!

Thank you for this post. Better to ask permission and deal with the lease holder. People in Alberta think CROWN LAND is open season. It`s not all open. Leased out,Parks,protected area,TFA,LOC PNTs just some of the ways the government has given rights to others that is on CROWN LAND.

 

[Summiteer]

Just because there is a 'trail' on a crown lease does not mean anything. Unless that trail is mapped as such and maintained by a club it has absolutely no status. Any leaseholder is well within their rights to fence it off.