Club membership... Please take my money.

[tex78]

I can tell u, unless your the revy sled club

The members passes is what starts and pays the majority of the season at the start and middle

And I can tell you that just about all clubs either just break even or have a small float left over from the year prior


So a 3-5 year test with no money for 25 buck day passes will 100 % not work

 

[tex78]

The costs for everything even being non profit is crazy, just about all places get a small gift from tourism of there town


But if u have been to revy, u can tell who gets way too much free money, that tax we all pay for everything in revy feeds


New big money groomers, retarded big cabins, new club shack ect




No other sled club get this treatment

 

[LBZ]

People need to remember not every area requires the same amount of monies for upkeep and maintenance. Trying to determine which deserves more money than the other would be tough. I'd be willing to bet even with the same traffic as say Brandywine, Renshaw trail costs more to maintain due to it's length and how much is at a low elevation.

It's a tough call to figure which way would be the best to go. As much as I hate to say it, government support to even it out and help manage may be the only solution like they do out east. Not something I want personally mind you.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

 

[Lund]

I don't ever recall saying anything about government involvement or anything about my personal cost being a problem. But was just stating the fact that i pay my way like everyone else...but hey, people can assume what ever they want. That isn't why i have posted on this thread.
Really, sledding for me has been part of my life and the cost is irrelevant compared to other things i do. In reality it doesn't compare to the cost of fishing the ocean and owning your own gear or working on a pilots licence with the hope of owning a plane.
Either way, the response from Fernie is exactly the response i got in the past on this subject....SO it ain't going to change.

C of Red, i like your proposal. Very similar from what i recall to that was put on the table in the early 90's.
But the narrow minded mind set of the time didn't even consider it, it appear's the mind set hasn't changed much.

With my last post, i just wanted to clarify that i did not solely put a proposal together for BCSF. In fact the idea came from member's of several different clubs. I at the time was a member of the Black Tusk snowmobile club in Vancouver and worked on the original proposal with other members.
The response we got after trying to propose the idea was. "people in the interior don't snowmobile like we do, its mostly farmers and trappers that use snowmobiles". It was said as a JOKE....but that was the attitude at the time.
So i basically washed my hands of the BS and hope there is a future for the sport. But i think in the long run the green movement will squeeze sledding as a sport.
So shoot the messenger...it doesn't matter, it is what it is.

 

[ferniesnow]

So if Hunter's needs $175.00 for a membership and someone is going to collect $80-$120 for distribution of a provincial pass, where does Hunter's consistently get the extra money? It doesn't work, if someone says, "this year we will have to cut you by 20% because club A was mismanaged." The way it is now, clubs charge what they require, have fund raisers, and sell memberships to balance the books. If anyone else is handling the money, there will be an administration fee and those administration fees tend to grow. We all know that and we all know what happens when government handles money. I don't even want to think what it would be like if there was another organization looking after money for individual clubs.

Lund, if you think you have the solution, get involved. I can tell you that there are lot of smart people involved and they haven't been able to come up with a solution. The last 5 years has had quite a change in the Federation and it isn't an easy road to haul. All I'm doing is putting out facts and some information on the money trail. I don't have a solution. I listen Lund, but the same old go around doesn't hold any credibility and like I said earlier with all the good intentions in Saskatchewan (BTW did you read that part or are you still stuck on what happens in Quebec with there millions of dollars that are put in by different levels of government?), there are still clubs that are not happy with the distribution. Club politics and provincial politics are always present and it works in strange ways. It is not black and white.

As for Revy, the city donated $100,000 for a new SnowCat and with the amount of hours on their cats, it is very economical to get rid of the "houred out" older beasts. Nobody generates money like Revy and all the more power to them. Revy has been one of the clubs that will discount a daily trail pass for BCSF member from another club.

 

[bobsledder]

For information for those of you reading this thread, the government has been known to think that a daily pass should be the same amount of money as a skier/boarder has to pay (can you imagine the out cry????). Translate that into dollars whether it be a daily fee or an annual fee? There is some transfer of services with Resorts of the Rockies but certainly no transfer to Whistler/Blackcomb, Seymour, Grouse, Big White, Silver Star, Apex, Red Mountain, Revy, Golden, and others. The difference being that the ski hills are run as a business and for profit and not like a snowmobile club being a non-profit society.

Thing about skiing it is all marketing. 1100 for a season pass but you only pay 750. Buy early and pay in 6 installments. It gets you a 25 percent discount at other areas that belong to CWSA. Day pass is around 90 bucks but no one pays that. Loyalty cards, buy off mountain, ski and stay etc.

I think similar could happen in sledding. Isn't 5 bucks of every trail pass supposed to go to BCSF for insurance so if you are a club member riding another area they don't need to pay that? This is what the guys from coast were bitching about. Don't know if that is the case but I hear guys saying that and therfore riding another way in. In our area going up from 6 mile for example.

 

[bobsledder]

The costs for everything even being non profit is crazy, just about all places get a small gift from tourism of there town


But if u have been to revy, u can tell who gets way too much free money, that tax we all pay for everything in revy feeds


New big money groomers, retarded big cabins, new club shack ect




No other sled club get this treatment

They run there club a little smarter than some. Strategy is to price pass so it is a no brainer to get one and sell a lot. Very large membership qualifies them for lots of grant money and they really do help generate buisness in their town.

 

[ferniesnow]

Thing about skiing it is all marketing. 1100 for a season pass but you only pay 750. Buy early and pay in 6 installments. It gets you a 25 percent discount at other areas that belong to CWSA. Day pass is around 90 bucks but no one pays that. Loyalty cards, buy off mountain, ski and stay etc.

I think similar could happen in sledding. Isn't 5 bucks of every trail pass supposed to go to BCSF for insurance so if you are a club member riding another area they don't need to pay that? This is what the guys from coast were bitching about. Don't know if that is the case but I hear guys saying that and therfore riding another way in. In our area going up from 6 mile for example.

Bert, the only monies the BCSF get are the $26 from a club membership fee. Nothing from trail passes. It is typical about riders bitching about having to pay for a trail pass whether it be $20, $25, or not getting a $5 discount. They bitch loud and clear at the poor collector just doing his/her job.

Can anyone imagine a bureaucrat suggesting that a membership or a daily pass for sledding should be in the realm of what they have to pay for skiing??

This is dealing with people and to come up with a system that is equitable and unbiased has not been able to satisfy the masses here in BC. The big draw back comes from the disgruntled riders thinking they shouldn't have to pay so much. I have said it before and I will continue to say it, I don't want the government messing with our costs as it will only cost more and I certainly don't want the government involved with collecting the monies as we will not get the services that we presently do.

I am content with the status quo, buy my memberships, and volunteer where I can to help reduce the costs.

 

[bobsledder]

Bert, the only monies the BCSF get are the $26 from a club membership fee. Nothing from trail passes. It is typical about riders bitching about having to pay for a trail pass whether it be $20, $25, or not getting a $5 discount. They bitch loud and clear at the poor collector just doing his/her job.

Can anyone imagine a bureaucrat suggesting that a membership or a daily pass for sledding should be in the realm of what they have to pay for skiing??

This is dealing with people and to come up with a system that is equitable and unbiased has not been able to satisfy the masses here in BC. The big draw back comes from the disgruntled riders thinking they shouldn't have to pay so much. I have said it before and I will continue to say it, I don't want the government messing with our costs as it will only cost more and I certainly don't want the government involved with collecting the monies as we will not get the services that we presently do.

I am content with the status quo, buy my memberships, and volunteer where I can to help reduce the costs.

Agreee... i dont think they complained to the trail collector but they probaly did. I sure took it on the chin as a club member though having a beer at the loading area. It is 5 whole bucks�� i figure get over it or stay home and ride where you are a member.

 

[Lund]

Lund, if you think you have the solution, get involved. I can tell you that there are lot of smart people involved and they haven't been able to come up with a solution. The last 5 years has had quite a change in the Federation and it isn't an easy road to haul. All I'm doing is putting out facts and some information on the money trail. I don't have a solution. I listen Lund, but the same old go around doesn't hold any credibility and like I said earlier with all the good intentions in Saskatchewan (BTW did you read that part or are you still stuck on what happens in Quebec with there millions of dollars that are put in by different levels of government?), there are still clubs that are not happy with the distribution. Club politics and provincial politics are always present and it works in strange ways. It is not black and white.

Sorry Doug i never said i had a solution but i believe the organization in its current form is missing alot and a reform or overhaul should be looked at IMO.
Here is one reason. Back to the original point of this thread and my original point on posting.
Club membership is great for those who ride that particular riding area, in that case it work's. And back in the 70s, 80s, 90s most sledder's did exactly that, rode their home area or club area.
Today that is NOT the case. Now maybe on S&M the locals do and the peeps you know....but i now more sledder's that travel and live in BC to ride other area's and do this all winter, then i know that don't. Usually diehard rider's and seasoned rider's travel.
I'm not talking about Albertan's, but BC rider's only.
These guy's seldom buy season passes, but pay at the gate like i do. The problem with that, we are not counted as member's of anything. A strong united membership is what will give sledding a future...that's not happening in its current form. That's why a united system should be looked at seriously.

As for me to get involved, i'am involved in other way's. SAR, is my contribution to this sport, i've done my part with club's in the past and have no desire to do anymore. You said there is new blood in the organization, let them make the mistakes and figure it out, sledding isn't the only thing in my life.

 

[HotShotHarry]

I also believe in the importance of numbers. I buy a basic membership at the two places that I ride frequently, Mcbride and Blue River. I also pay the full trail pass fee for each area. I live too far away to be an active member but I do encourage my riding buddies to do the same { which most do not bother to do}. I think every sledder should be required to purchase a provincial membership and also pay the trail pass each time you ride in any area.This way the BCSF gets support and so does the local club.

 

[Lund]

I also believe in the importance of numbers. I buy a basic membership at the two places that I ride frequently, Mcbride and Blue River. I also pay the full trail pass fee for each area. I live too far away to be an active member but I do encourage my riding buddies to do the same { which most do not bother to do}. I think every sledder should be required to purchase a provincial membership and also pay the trail pass each time you ride in any area.This way the BCSF gets support and so does the local club.

That is what i'm trying to get across, but we in BC DO NOT have a provincial membership. Mostly because of old school thinking and mistrust. That IMO is BS.

So what are we gypsy rider's suppose to do? Today with the hi-way system and vehicles we have, it is a non issue to go out of town for the weekend and a lot of sledder's are doing it every weekend. Like i said, i know more that do then those that ride locally.

 

[Lund]

The costs for everything even being non profit is crazy, just about all places get a small gift from tourism of there town


But if u have been to revy, u can tell who gets way too much free money, that tax we all pay for everything in revy feeds


New big money groomers, retarded big cabins, new club shack ect




No other sled club get this treatment

Jeff, Revy does well because of it's close locality to Alberta and Calgary. In the grand scheme of thing's in BC, Revy is not as popular as you might think, there are many other area's in BC that not just rival Revy but are actually considered by many BC sledder's better. You just need to get out more and actually explore the other option's. Revy is what it is because of the Alberta rider's going there and Revy overall has profited from it and so they should.
If it wasn't for the Alberta economy at the time and it's close easy to reach locality, Revy would not be what it is or any better then Sicamous.

 

[HotShotHarry]

Well, perhaps a Provincial Membership [ with government involvement] which I also do not like,is too hard to implement. But a membership in the BCSF should be mandatory and required in order to purchase a trail pass.

 

[C of Red]

Sorry Doug i never said i had a solution but i believe the organization in its current form is missing alot and a reform or overhaul should be looked at IMO.
Here is one reason. Back to the original point of this thread and my original point on posting.
Club membership is great for those who ride that particular riding area, in that case it work's. And back in the 70s, 80s, 90s most sledder's did exactly that, rode their home area or club area.
Today that is NOT the case. Now maybe on S&M the locals do and the peeps you know....but i now more sledder's that travel and live in BC to ride other area's and do this all winter, then i know that don't. Usually diehard rider's and seasoned rider's travel.
I'm not talking about Albertan's, but BC rider's only.
These guy's seldom buy season passes, but pay at the gate like i do. The problem with that, we are not counted as member's of anything. A strong united membership is what will give sledding a future...that's not happening in its current form. That's why a united system should be looked at seriously.

As for me to get involved, i'am involved in other way's. SAR, is my contribution to this sport, i've done my part with club's in the past and have no desire to do anymore. You said there is new blood in the organization, let them make the mistakes and figure it out, sledding isn't the only thing in my life.

Thank you Lund, that was the purpose of my original post. How to get more people buying memberships and increase our overall numbers to fight any future loss of riding areas all over BC. Even the areas most of us do not ride. If there was a way to significantly improve overal membership our voice would be as loud as those who oppose us. The fact that it would also give us a collective voice rather than individual clubs can not be understated.

I'll commit to buying a membership this year for Golden. I'll ride there 3-6 days this upcoming season. I'll also pay at the gate to ride 2 days in Fernie, 4 days in Revy, 4 days in Sic and anywhere else I go for a one off trip (Cranbrook, Valemont etc). But most people who ride all over won't buy a membership which Will eventually prove detrimental to the sport overall.

 

[ferniesnow]

That is what i'm trying to get across, but we in BC DO NOT have a provincial membership. Mostly because of old school thinking and mistrust. That IMO is BS.

So what are we gypsy rider's suppose to do? Today with the hi-way system and vehicles we have, it is a non issue to go out of town for the weekend and a lot of sledder's are doing it every weekend. Like i said, i know more that do then those that ride locally.

So you are saying that sledding is like golf. The need to play in different areas/courses is desirable! Golfers travel and they pay green fees which by the way are more expensive than a daily trail pass. Do you hear them thinking there is a better, cheaper way to explore different courses?

The old school thinking has gone Mike. Get that through your head. Mostly young people on the Board of the BCSF and they are trying to wrap their heads around the issue. Nothing has come out of the wood work yet that will work. If the OLD FARTS left the fold would it be better? IMHO, it is good to have some OLD FARTS as there are pitfalls that don't need experimenting with again. Take in point the young MLA's in Alberta. Ideological but not very practical.

A practical, functional system for our style of sledding is difficult to achieve. You can't keep all of the people happy all of the time.

 

[bobsledder]

So you are saying that sledding is like golf. The need to play in different areas/courses is desirable! Golfers travel and they pay green fees which by the way are more expensive than a daily trail pass. Do you hear them thinking there is a better, cheaper way to explore different courses?

The old school thinking has gone Mike. Get that through your head. Mostly young people on the Board of the BCSF and they are trying to wrap their heads around the issue. Nothing has come out of the wood work yet that will work. If the OLD FARTS left the fold would it be better? IMHO, it is good to have some OLD FARTS as there are pitfalls that don't need experimenting with again. Take in point the young MLA's in Alberta. Ideological but not very practical.

A practical, functional system for our style of sledding is difficult to achieve. You can't keep all of the people happy all of the time.

Check out vipgolf.ca This has been done for golfers

 

[ferniesnow]

Thank you Lund, that was the purpose of my original post. How to get more people buying memberships and increase our overall numbers to fight any future loss of riding areas all over BC. Even the areas most of us don not ride. If there was a way to significantly improve overal membership our voice would be as loud as those who oppose us. The fact that it would also give us a collective voice rather than individual clubs can not be understated.

C of Red, the overall numbers are the members in the BCSF. Buy a BCSF membership and you are counted (go on-line and buy that membership for the cheapest club and there you go. You are a counted rider). There are countless riders that are not counted, just like there are countless unregistered sleds in BC. As an example in Fernie, the out-of-province members out weight the locals. Why is that? Partly, because the out-of-province members know they are getting a deal (the locals get the same deal but don't really know how fortunate they are) and the locals are hung up in local politics and can't wrap their head around what is going on. Lots of them don't like the tourism aspect, they don't like the business aspect, but yet, they want groomed trails to the alpine and cabins. Who pays for that?

The BCSF works very hard on increasing membership. A big hurdle has recently been achieved with the amalgamation of the two provincial organizations. There are a few independent clubs in BC and that membership isn't counted with the provincial numbers. Why are they independent? Are they a bunch of OLDFARTS, mistrusting the system, or something totally different? You would have to ask them as I don't know their reasoning.

 

[HotShotHarry]

Now you are getting me confused Doug. IMO, there is a desire to ride different areas and most of my riding buddies do just that! I think either a Provincial membership or a membership in the BCSF should be mandatory in order to purchase a trail pass. I would rather not see more government involvement, but it may be necessary in order to be heard at that level.

 

[Lund]

So you are saying that sledding is like golf. The need to play in different areas/courses is desirable! Golfers travel and they pay green fees which by the way are more expensive than a daily trail pass. Do you hear them thinking there is a better, cheaper way to explore different courses?

The old school thinking has gone Mike. Get that through your head. Mostly young people on the Board of the BCSF and they are trying to wrap their heads around the issue. Nothing has come out of the wood work yet that will work. If the OLD FARTS left the fold would it be better? IMHO, it is good to have some OLD FARTS as there are pitfalls that don't need experimenting with again. Take in point the young MLA's in Alberta. Ideological but not very practical.

A practical, functional system for our style of sledding is difficult to achieve. You can't keep all of the people happy all of the time.

HAHA...i like that. Maybe except golfer's don't need a collected voice. The Green movement target is sledder's over golfer's.
Great conversation Doug, hopefully something comes out of it.