Club membership... Please take my money.

[C of Red]

I really really really really want to support the sport with a membership. I used to have a couple but stopped due to constantly paying daily fees to ride areas outside of my choosen memberships. There is only so much "fun money" to go around, especially now days. I will admit to being a snow whore. My favourite place to ride is where the big dump was last night. I also want to explore ALL the different areas in BC and AB. There is so much diversity in riding the various mountain clubs, all unique in there own way. Because of this I ride anywhere 5-7 hours from Calgary. Up to 7 or 8 different clubs a year, none more than 3 or 4 times, some only once. I completely understand that low membership numbers allow special interest groups to get their way or at the very least make their voices appear louder.

Please help me give my money for a membership so that my name can be added when defending our riding areas. Otherwise I will continue being the nameless person purchasing a day pass.

Maybe I'm ignorant and there is already something in place. But if not... allow me to purchase a Western Canadian membership and I'll buy one tomorrow. A couple ideas...
1) Something like the multi use ski cards for the various ski hills. You don't even need to give me the 1st, 3rd or 7th day free.
2) Let me purchase a West Canada membership then charge me less than a none member day pass (50-60%, or whatever is needed) at the trail head for each area when I use it.
3) to help grow the sport maybe once a season have a take you kid / spouse for free weekend (members only). I read an article tonight that stated the average sledder was 43-44 yr old male.

I'm not trying to offend any of the hard working people who give so much. The online article refferenced extremely low annual club memberships and how it has been this way for 50+ years. Maybe a new approach is required.

I cannot be the only person who stopped buying memberships due to riding multiple areas. Others like me, what would get you to purchase a membership?

thanks

 

[Lund]

Your not alone and i quit buying memberships years ago because of that exact reason you have stated.
I have been in the snowmobiling world longer then the majority and was at one time involved with clubs, trying to make changes with these idiots is nearly impossible as they are 100% stuck in their way's.
Of all the provinces BC has the worst system in place, they even fight amongst each other and untill recently there was even 2 freckin association for the clubs. Neither one knew what they were doing, mostly arguing clubs.
I have ZERO time for them and will not support their backward system. When i go out i pay my pass and thats it.
If we loose riding area's because of lack of support by member's, you can only blame the current system in BC, not sledder's them selves. Most of us cannot afford to buy multi membership passes to ride.
The current system only works for those who ride the same place over and over and over and over and over.....F'N BORING
I'ed rather quit sledding then do that.

What BC should do is adopt a system similar, not the same to Quebec. ONE season pass that cover the entire province. That i would support 100%.

Either way the future of sledding and club support is in the younger generation hands and until the system get's its crap together i don't see anything great coming out of this system. Myself, i have had great sledding years and now it no longer matter's to me. I can take it or leave it.
The best sledding has long past, today we have great sleds but snow is not comparable to what it use to be, how ironic.

 

[bobsledder]

You hit the nail on the head with the interclub comments. You are supposed to get a discount between BCSF member clubs but not all all clubs honour that including my home club. The trail access issues due to logging and the club doing nothing for parking so people are forced to ride dirt this winter make me understand why people use other ways to get to the alpine and avoid the groomed trails in.

 

[ferniesnow]

We all admit, the less government the better. There have been deep discussions about a Provincial Trail pass; it isn't a simple/perfect concept. While I was the table, I took some of my concerns to clubs in Saskatchewan while at a sled show in Saskatoon. This is a similar system to Quebec. The SSA manages the funds in a transparent subjective manner. There is a check list of criteria. So, it should all run smoothly. It doesn't. There are clubs that think they are not getting what is their due. They do not agree with the decision of the SSA and come up short on funding. You would think that politics wouldn't enter into the equation but somehow (human nature is involved here) it does.

The way it is now, the individual clubs need all the money they can generate to operate. It costs big bucks to groom trails in the mountains and there are no connecting links (or at least not very many). Each club has there own riding area(s) and if they want riders to come they have to spend the bucks to groom, maintain cabins, have safe trails, etc..

A Provincial Trail pass IMHO would not work. In the Sea-to-Sky area, they think it would work and there is a quiet movement to accomplish something. Personally, I just think it would bring a myriad of controversy and the lesser clubs would want more and more of the "pie". Take Revelstoke as an example. Big bucks to support the infrastructure and big bucks to keep it going. Do you think they can afford to "give away" any of their monies to other clubs?? I don't think so. It is run like a business and so it should be. They shouldn't have to support any other clubs or organizations in the process.

I buy membership where I ride the most and don't worry about trail pass fees where I go occasionally. I belong to 4 clubs. In Fernie, a membership costs $80.00 and a daily trail pass costs $20.00. If you ride 4 times, you break even. Other clubs are similar. There are advantages to membership. Yes, it costs money. Tell me what doesn't!

By the individual clubs selling trail passes (and I am talking about "grooming fees"), they see all the money and balance their books. If the government or a provincial body collected a Provincial Trail pass, there would be an administration fee (call it whatever). You and I know where that goes and it may or may not go to support the sport. The cost of a Provincial Trail pass would be how much? Ontario sells them for $400 or there abouts, Quebec very similar, and just imagine the outcry. Locals in BC don't like the $20-25.00 daily fee now. They scream and holler and feel it is their right to ride the groom trail for free! Go figure!

Membership has it's privileges. Get off your wallet and pay your way!

 

[Kaz Dog]

"C" - long time, no talk..... I hear what you're saying, and here is my best advice/response.

As you are an Albertan, you can support being a snowmobiler in Alberta by going on the Alberta Snowmobile Association website and buying a membership/Trail Pass. This membership/Trail Pass allows for, in a large part, the operation and insurance for our provincial trails all over the province. Under "Nearest Club", I would urge you to indicate the Calgary Snowmobile Club (C.S.C.). We have just finished our first year of grooming at "our" trails at Cataract Creek Snow Vehicle Public Land Use Zone, west of Longview, and sure could use your support there. And come out to our Poker Rally next January, 2017 (more info later). New this year is, by the A.S.A., Free Avalanche Training for 100 A.S.A. members (AST1 or AST 2) who complete both classroom and field training by January 30, 2017. If more than 100 apply for this re-imbursement of their course costs by this date, a draw will be held and the first 100 people drawn will receive a 100% refund.

If you want to know more about our local club, the C.S.C., you can go to our website and signup for your Trail Pass and club membership there. We are actively maintaining and grooming Cataract Creek Snowmobile Trails with lots going on. Behind the scenes, we are representing the club members at the provincial level during South Saskatchewan Regional Plan (S.S.R.P.), A.E.P., Agriculture and Forestry, and Oldman Watershed Council meetings. We host monthly meetings the third Tuesday evening of the month if you choose to attend, this next year starting in September - April. We also have a monthly newsletter we send to members. Our Destination Rides every winter are a mainstay of the organization, with many successes this year, and our first helicopter call-out (pm me, I will give you the down low on it). As soon as our new Destination Coordinator completes the schedule, it will be up on our website. Calgary Snow Mobile Club - Come and Join the Club

B.C. is a tougher nut to crack, as their system is unlike others. Being that there is no "provincial pass" system there, change would be needed for this. If they take a look at the rest of Canada and see if they can change it to a hybrid of the rest, then it will change. As the provincial gov't in B.C. sets up local clubs to undertake grooming operations by area (this is my limited knowledge), there is no hope for a provincial pass system - as I see it. Time will only tell.

 

[bobsledder]

Oh I pay Doug. 400 bucks a year here for two of us ☺ i wish we only had to pay 80 bucks each. I dont allways break even on that but there are other reasons to join the club.

I ran into some guys from Cranbrook over here and was showing them were tney can ride on owl and hunter and they were not happy they Sicy didnt honour the discount they should have got. They knew the rules as they were the Cranbrook club executive.

 

[ferniesnow]

Oh I pay Doug. 400 bucks a year here for two of us ☺ i wish we only had to pay 80 bucks each. I dont allways break even on that but there are other reasons to join the club.

I ran into some guys from Cranbrook over here and was showing them were tney can ride on owl and hunter and they were not happy they Sicy didnt honour the discount they should have got. They knew the rules as they were the Cranbrook club executive.

Yes, it isn't simple. Between fighting to keep caribou closures open and general up-keep it is expensive for the club. It has gotten around to having to pay employees instead of the total volunteer basis we used to be able to use. That part is getting more and more expensive as we move forward. Book keeping, grant applications, trail agreements, grooming operators, collecting vendors, you name it, the clubs are paying for those "used to be" volunteer positions. People keep saying they are just too busy these days?

I don't know if it has been written somewhere that a BCSF member should get a discount. To my knowledge that is just an honourable thing to do between clubs. Not all clubs do it and Sicamous isn't the only one to not reciprocate. Replace an old cabin or build a new one, put a motor in a SnowCat, or a final drive and the bills are enormous.

Going back to the Quebec suggestion, the Provincial and Federal governments put tremendous monies into the infrastructure; literally, millions are given by government. Can you or anybody else see the BC government pumping big money into our sport? Not on your life would they support a form of motorized back-country use. I am sure our government is more into closing us down rather than supporting us to pump more money into the local economies.

 

[moyiesledhead]

I ran into some guys from Cranbrook over here and was showing them were tney can ride on owl and hunter and they were not happy they Sicy didnt honour the discount they should have got. They knew the rules as they were the Cranbrook club executive.

A bit hypocrytical of them. We don't give BCSF discounts on trail passes in Cranbrook either. Might have to talk to those boys. I buy a Cranbrook membership every year, even though I might only ride Lumberton a couple of times. It's not about payback for me. Don't like groomed trails now that i'm on a snowbike anyway.

 

[bobsledder]

A bit hypocrytical of them. We don't give BCSF discounts on trail passes in Cranbrook either. Might have to talk to those boys. I buy a Cranbrook membership every year, even though I might only ride Lumberton a couple of times. It's not about payback for me. Don't like groomed trails now that i'm on a snowbike anyway.

Hold on.... I got that mixed up Cranbrook guys were great. There was two groups up there that day. Guys from Cranbrook had been at Eagles day before and said no one would share the routes with them so were surprised I did.

It was guys from Chiliwack that were pissed about the discount. Guy said he was president of their club and that was a BCSF rule according to him.

 

[C of Red]

Hey Scott, I hope all is well.

I understand the buy an Alberta Membership philosophy since this is my residence. However, I have a difficult time doing so. I generally don't ride in the province. Unfortunately this is the same reason I no longer purchase a membership to the local club. The C.S.C has some great hard working individuals, but it doesn't operate in areas I ride and there is only so much $$$ to go around. I would support a none club specific Western Canadian membership wholeheartedly, unfortunately this is not an option.

Conversely I purchase a Montana none resident snowmobile trail pass every year. It is not club specific and covers me when I meet my American friends in Cooke City, Missoula and around Seeley Lake. That being said the overwhelming majority of my riding is in BC and I purchase a day pass each and every morning.

C

 

[C of Red]

As some have suggested a person could bite the bullet and buy multiple memberships. It would be nice to do this but I doubt I could pass that through the better half. She already think I spend to much sledding (especially on parts). My four most common riding areas Golden, Revy, Sicamous and Fernie would cost $635 a year or more on top of the other areas I would still have to pay daily fees to ride.

I suppose the silver lining is in 10 yrs the wife may agree to move to one of these areas. Then I can purchase a membership and be active in the club.

C

 

[Lund]

WOW, $80/year, i wish. That was like 10yrs ago in this region.
A membership at Hunter's range is $175 for primary rider then $125 for secondary rider. This allows me to ride Hunters range, Owlshead only. Anywhere else i have to pay with no discount except if i go to the coast. At the coast the clubs will give you 10%..........IT A BULLVINE POOP SETUP, ran by OLDFARTS with OLD IDEA's and thinking of only there area and not the sport in general. There meeting are full of BICKERING, which is typical of people stuck in their way's.
An inter provincial system would work, i know, i proposed it 25yrs ago with the organisation as a full business plan. Layed it out for them and they refused it...WHY
It's all about CONTROL and MONEY, like typical old idealist, they don't want to improve the sport in general in the province but just want to improve and capitalize it in their little riding area, so they all operate as independence.
Overall, the green movement prefers and like it this way, as they see the unstableness and inconsistency between regions and clubs. They know we're not UNITED, but more of a rag tag organization.
Unfortunately it would require a full clean out and shake down of the current organization and NEW young blood put into place to change thing's with fresh ideas.
Like that's going to happen LOL.

 

[ferniesnow]

As some have suggested a person could bite the bullet and buy multiple memberships. It would be nice to do this but I doubt I could pass that through the better half. She already think I spend to much sledding (especially on parts). My four most common riding areas Golden, Revy, Sicamous and Fernie would cost $635 a year or more on top of the other areas I would still have to pay daily fees to ride.

I suppose the silver lining is in 10 yrs the wife may agree to move to one of these areas. Then I can purchase a membership and be active in the club.

C

Doing the math, at $20/day you would have to ride 34 days a year to break even on the $635. If you did the math for Revy at $25/day it would work out less. That is a lot cheaper than using a ski hill! Yes, it is sweet to live here and it is also sweet to pay senior rates!

If someone could come up with an idea where the "progressive clubs" or the "have clubs" didn't have to support the clubs that are not doing well (sort of like the equalization payments Alberta pays to the Fed's), it would be worth discussing. In the meantime, it will be the status quo for quite awhile.

Here in BC, with the new OHV laws and snowmobile registration, there isn't one red cent going back to the sport. It all goes to ICBC and that is not the way it should be. So, it will be a long time before any government in BC gets behind this sport that pumps millions into local business.

 

[Lund]

Now with the new registration requirement's a provincial user system would even be easier to implement.
Sledders would pay an annual fee to BCSF. The purchased fee would come with a, member number matched to his or her's sled registration number on the side of the sled, then as they go to different area's the trail master(trailpass seller) would record the sled registration number. This info would then be sent to BCSF and funds would be distributed accordingly to where that member rode. This way also they would also have a better idea's on infrastructure and popular places and help promote the lesser used area's.

 

[ferniesnow]

WOW, $80/year, i wish. That was like 10yrs ago in this region.
A membership at Hunter's range is $175 for primary rider then $125 for secondary rider. This allows me to ride Hunters range, Owlshead only. Anywhere else i have to pay with no discount except if i go to the coast. At the coast the clubs will give you 10%..........IT A BULLVINE POOP SETUP, ran by OLDFARTS with OLD IDEA's and thinking of only there area and not the sport in general. There meeting are full of BICKERING, which is typical of people stuck in their way's.
An inter provincial system would work, i know, i proposed it 25yrs ago with the organisation as a full business plan. Layed it out for them and they refused it...WHY
It's all about CONTROL and MONEY, like typical old idealist, they don't want to improve the sport in general in the province but just want to improve and capitalize it in their little riding area, so they all operate as independence.
Overall, the green movement prefers and like it this way, as they see the unstableness and inconsistency between regions and clubs. They know we're not UNITED, but more of a rag tag organization.
Unfortunately it would require a full clean out and shake down of the current organization and NEW young blood put into place to change thing's with fresh ideas.
Like that's going to happen LOL.

and you want someone to pay your way????????????? Mike, still a hell of a lot cheaper than the ski hill. Get in the know and quit living in the past. The BCSF has changed and that has happened in a good way. It is full of NEW young blood. It is not "OLDFARTS" as you put it and it is not operating on "OLD IDEA'S". A new provincial organization was formed because people could't change the structure from within. What happened to the new organization? In a nut shell, it found it couldn't operate cheaply and people got burned out resulting in that organization folding it's doors and transferring everyone the the BCSF. It is interesting how money is required to run the infra structure and it is interesting why there is no provincial money injected into the sport that brings in millions of dollars into the local riding areas.

A provincial trail pass has been discussed extensively and there is no way that the monies would flow smoothly without an added cost and there would still be unhappy clubs and or riders. A lot of change has taken place in 25 years and there still is not a manner in which this would work. Lay out your plan here and let us peruse it. I'll ask a question here, how much money does Hunter's have in the kitty at the end of the year? Can you answer that? Can they afford to give any away to another poorly organized club?

In the Sea-to-Sky, the need for a "regional pass" comes about because when one area is rode out (Brohm), they want to be able to go to another area and not pay, wanting someone else to absorb the cost. Why should someone else be paying for them? This is an expensive sport and it isn't going to get cheaper unless we go back to no cabins and no grooming.

Waiting to see your plan and maybe you should get involved and start the ball rolling again. You seem to think it would work. I'm just an OLDFART with OLD IDEAS!

 

[Lund]

Well i know nothing of Hunters range business, i'm not a member and haven't been for nearly 8yrs now.
All i can tell you is Karen and i have paid last season $1250 in trail passes. That is over $600 each to ride, just in passes.

Like i said, if your the type who like's the regular, that works buying a club pass for your region.
But if you extend your riding into different regions, it doesn't work.
Last year i rode, Hunter range(Enderby), Owlshead, Eagles pass(Sicamous), Boulder, Frisby, Area51(Revelstoke), Greystokes(Kelowna), Coquihalla lakes and 10K(Hope), Honeymoon(Merritt), Brandiwhine(Pemberton).

This is how i proposed it could be done.
Now with the new registration requirement's a provincial user system would even be easier to implement.
Sledders would pay an annual fee to BCSF. The purchased fee would come with a, member number matched to his or her's sled registration number on the side of the sled, then as they go to different area's the trail master(trailpass seller) would record the sled registration number. This info would then be sent to BCSF and funds would be distributed accordingly to where that member rode. This way also they would also have a better idea's on infrastructure and popular places and help promote the lesser used area's.

 

[ferniesnow]

Well i know nothing of Hunters range business, i'm not a member and haven't been for nearly 8yrs now.
All i can tell you is Karen and i have paid last season $1250 in trail passes. That is over $600 each to ride, just in passes.

Like i said, if your the type who like's the regular, that works buying a club pass for your region.
But if you extend your riding into different regions, it doesn't work.
Last year i rode, Hunter range(Enderby), Owlshead, Eagles pass(Sicamous), Boulder, Frisby, Area51(Revelstoke), Greystokes(Kelowna), Coquihalla lakes and 10K(Hope), Honeymoon(Merritt), Brandiwhine(Pemberton).

So how can you come on here and complain???????

There are no club passes for Regions that I know of. I buy 4 club memberships and support with purchasing club memberships where I ride the most. I don't complain about going to Revy, Sicamous, Eagles, Golden, Hunter's, Cranbrook, and on some occasions the Sea-to-Sky and paying my way with day passes. Clubs don't have an over abundance of money. This is not about you and your cost, it is about the big picture. Trail passes are a small cost when figuring out the total expenditure one spends on the sport. It is like it is said, "a dude comes into the staging area with big sleds, big truck, and big trailer and complains about a $20 trail pass".

I joined a club this year and it took the volunteer secretary/treasurer until the end of the season to get the monies into the BCSF. So how fast will money turn around with your scenario? In the post above (post #14), why does the BCSF have to get involved? Pay the club operating the grooming and infrastructure and let them manage "their money". We don't need "more government" (not meaning the BCSF is government) just let the local people do what they do best. Manage an area for our benefit and quit whining.

 

[ferniesnow]

For information for those of you reading this thread, the government has been known to think that a daily pass should be the same amount of money as a skier/boarder has to pay (can you imagine the out cry????). Translate that into dollars whether it be a daily fee or an annual fee? There is some transfer of services with Resorts of the Rockies but certainly no transfer to Whistler/Blackcomb, Seymour, Grouse, Big White, Silver Star, Apex, Red Mountain, Revy, Golden, and others. The difference being that the ski hills are run as a business and for profit and not like a snowmobile club being a non-profit society.

 

[C of Red]

In my initial post I wasn't complaining about the cost of daily passes. I agree you have to pay to play and have zero issues paying the daily fees and supporting the clubs where I ride. If anyone does shame on them. But I do recall the previous few years on this forum calls for people to join clubs to protect the areas we all enjoy riding. What I was trying to get across was the need for a provincial or regional membership to entice more individuals to purchase one. The greens are a large unified group, the sledding community needs to have the membership numbers to compete. I believe anything that can be done to increase overall membership should explored. Lund has some good ideas as far as ensuring the club which is rode receives the funds. This certainly doesn't need to be mismanaged by the government, I agree with you on that Fernie. It would lead to extensive waste.

Here's a thought... charge $80-$120 for a BC or Western Canadian Membership. Charge another $10 every day I hit the hill (standardize the $25 fee for none members among all clubs). Local clubs keep the funds collected at the gate. Put a bar code on my sleds sticker or wallet card and scan it every time I go through the a gate regardless of which area I ride. Take the annual totals from each area over a three to five year timeframe and average them out. This will allow the appropriate distribution of membership fees to the clubs. I realize there is a lot more to this and its not so simple but if increased membership is required make it possible to attain more people. At $80-$120 for a membership I can't see too many people not buying one if the none member day pass is still $25. There are the names and memberships which are required, it will certainly get mine. Hell, I will buy a membership for my wife and she only goes out 2 days a year.

I used to purchase memberships for the C.S.C and Golden. But depending on snow conditions sometimes I would ride Golden only four days a season. I never rode around Calgary but the local club has some great people and the club rides were always fun. The last couple years I have traveled more than ever to find the "big dump" of snow. On top of that I still want to ride everywhere. All these clubs have beautiful terrain and towns around them.

 

[Lund]

I don't ever recall saying anything about government involvement or anything about my personal cost being a problem. But was just stating the fact that i pay my way like everyone else...but hey, people can assume what ever they want. That isn't why i have posted on this thread.
Really, sledding for me has been part of my life and the cost is irrelevant compared to other things i do. In reality it doesn't compare to the cost of fishing the ocean and owning your own gear or working on a pilots licence with the hope of owning a plane.
Either way, the response from Fernie is exactly the response i got in the past on this subject....SO it ain't going to change.

C of Red, i like your proposal. Very similar from what i recall to that was put on the table in the early 90's.
But the narrow minded mind set of the time didn't even consider it, it appear's the mind set hasn't changed much.