Caribou

[drew562]

Wolf litters average 5 pups. Cougar averages 3-4. Ungulates typically have one offspring sometimes twins. Anyone see where I'm going with this?

Just so everyone knows, theres plenty of wolves to go around.

Exactly. And leave them alone they will thrive and grow in numbers. For a while. Then along comes a mother nature with a disease or sickness that will take the wolves to incredibly low numbers (naturally) Now the deer. Moose. Elk. Ect have time to get there numbers up again. Pretty simple

 

[frock]

Exactly. And leave them alone they will thrive and grow in numbers. For a while. Then along comes a mother nature with a disease or sickness that will take the wolves to incredibly low numbers (naturally) Now the deer. Moose. Elk. Ect have time to get there numbers up again. Pretty simple

It's not that simple anymore drew. Once the moose, elk, deer, mountain goat/sheep, buffalo and caribou numbers are decimated the wolves turn to the ranchers and farmers to feed them. We have altered the system that Mother Nature spent centuries setting up.

 

[Lund]

Seem's like S&M has a lot of experts on the wolf, caribou problem. You guy's should run for BC government and join the rank's of Ms. Clark F...ups
Between this wolf kill BS program, the salmon farming along our coast destroying our natural environment killing our wild stock, did you know fish farming is pretty much band world wide and yet its ok in BC coastal waters . Kinda like the wolf kill program LOL, going against what was proven not to work.
Then Hydro land flooding destroying perfect agricultural and aboriginal land to give power to the US.
May i go on.....Grizzly trophy kill's, in BC we are viewed as Africa of the north, we also have the highest pouching problem in North america with limited CO officer's and limited resources.
Vancouver is now the second most unaffordable city in the world to live in and BC has the highest child poverty rate in Canada, WTF???....
The BC government has its own agenda and its not for the wild life or natural protection of this province but the money they can pocket for them selves
Christy Clark and her cronies IMO are criminals.

 

[Summitric]

Yup... All the problems of the world solved here on snowandmud.com........

 

[ZRrrr]

24 October 2012

Alberta Conservation Association publication

Number of poaching events in 2011 is close to 2,930, or an average of 8.02 per day. Extrapolate that number and it becomes evident that staggering numbers of Alberta's wildlife are harvested illegally—left to waste, or sold on the black market.

Top 5 – Elk, moose, bighorn, sheep, black beer, deer.

Average is 2,000 poaching events per year since 2009. Add in licenced hunting, vehicle impacts and death by natural causes outside of being killed and the number is quite staggering.

I don't think the wolves are having as big an impact as some would have you think.

This should get the ranchers here fired up.........

From ESRD website:

In Alberta farmers are compensated full market value for loss of livestock from a confirmed kill.

“The costs of veterinary care and medication associated with the incident or the loss of an animal, up to the value of the animal based on the average for the type and class of livestock. For all livestock, compensation is based on the average commercial value for the type and class of animal on the day it was killed.
If the livestock killed is cattle of less than one year of age, the producer has the following options:
Producers have the choice to accept compensation at the time of loss or
Producers can choose to wait until the end of October and receive compensation based on the Canfax average for the month of October, based on an average weight of 550 pounds. The minimum payment on a confirmed kill is $400.”

Alberta Conservation Association states that the number of claims under the compensation program has gone up considerably since the program started. All sorts of speculation as to why. I believe in certain cases this program can be applied to guardian dogs as well.

A farmer can pay between $36 to $42 per AUM (animal unit month, consisting of one cow and one calf) to graze an animal on private land. On public grazing reserves it is less than $2 per AUM. Assets such as fences, irrigation etc., are considered public assets and are usually paid for by the province. Grazing associations are responsible for only 2% of original cost per annum.

Let's face it, the wolf has yet again become the bastard poster child (i.e. distraction) from the real issues.

Like Lund mentions....follow the money..........always follow the money.

 

[Summitric]

I JUST HAD THIS EMAILED TO ME....

RIC – This petition is gaining tremendous momentum on Change.org, and your voice could help make a difference. Would you like to sign it?

http://email.change.org/wf/click?up...u8x-2F8AWiebBlNBnlfzRuOTxGEEOoCa0BfsDPQa28-3D [h=1] Save B.C. Wolves! [/h] Pacific Wild Denny Island, B.C., Canada [COLOR=#F9F9FB !important] Sign the petition ​ [/COLOR]​ January 15, 2015 B.C. Government green-lights controversial wolf hunt in the South Selkirk and South Peace regions. As many as 184 wolves to be shot from helicopters. Decades of habitat destruction and human encroachment have left BC’s mountain caribou on the edge of survival. Instead of protecting critical food and habitat for caribou, such as the lichen rich interior forests, the BC government has now placed the blame on wolves. Over 180 wolves are now being targeted for aerial killing in the next two months. These highly social and intelligent animals, icons of our natural heritage, should not be killed because of government negligence. Killing all the wolves in BC won’t bring the caribou back in the absence of habitat protection. Wolves are highly social and intelligent animals and research shows that predator kill programs increase reproductive rates in wolves and destabilizes pack structure causing more predation of livestock and other non-native prey. It is the view of Pacific Wild that this announcement is scientifically unsound and that wolves are being used as a scapegoat to divert attention from the fundamental problem of ongoing habitat destruction and displacement caused by human encroachment. "This is not management, it’s a tax-payer funded kill program of one of our most iconic species.” said Ian McAllister, Conservation Director for Pacific Wild. "This is not only a horrific day for wolves in British Columbia but a sad day for public engagement and policy that will surely bring international condemnation to our borders." Go to: www.pacificwild.org to learn more and take action Share through social media: @pacificwild #saveBCwolves Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter Contact Pacific Wild: info@pacificwild.org Pacific Wild is a B.C. based non-profit wildlife conservation organization and a leading advocate for changes to wolf management in British Columbia. www.pacificwild.org

 

[Joholio]

Seem's like S&M has a lot of experts on the wolf, caribou problem. You guy's should run for BC government and join the rank's of Ms. Clark F...ups
Between this wolf kill BS program, the salmon farming along our coast destroying our natural environment killing our wild stock, did you know fish farming is pretty much band world wide and yet its ok in BC coastal waters . Kinda like the wolf kill program LOL, going against what was proven not to work.
Then Hydro land flooding destroying perfect agricultural and aboriginal land to give power to the US.
May i go on.....Grizzly trophy kill's, in BC we are viewed as Africa of the north, we also have the highest pouching problem in North america with limited CO officer's and limited resources.
Vancouver is now the second most unaffordable city in the world to live in and BC has the highest child poverty rate in Canada, WTF???....
The BC government has its own agenda and its not for the wild life or natural protection of this province but the money they can pocket for them selves
Christy Clark and her cronies IMO are criminals.

What are the solutions then? You have pointed out the flaws... Come on lets hear it.

Grader man today said 8 wolves on the road chasin the "wild" horses trying to separate the colts. Guess whos got wolves to trap? Saw zero deer, elk or moose today, one big lynx... And a few groups of horses standing in the wide open so they can see the wolves/cougars/lynx approaching... Lots of wolf and cat tracks

 

[frock]

Seem's like S&M has a lot of experts on the wolf, caribou problem. You guy's should run for BC government and join the rank's of Ms. Clark F...ups
Between this wolf kill BS program, the salmon farming along our coast destroying our natural environment killing our wild stock, did you know fish farming is pretty much band world wide and yet its ok in BC coastal waters . Kinda like the wolf kill program LOL, going against what was proven not to work.
Then Hydro land flooding destroying perfect agricultural and aboriginal land to give power to the US.
May i go on.....Grizzly trophy kill's, in BC we are viewed as Africa of the north, we also have the highest pouching problem in North america with limited CO officer's and limited resources.
Vancouver is now the second most unaffordable city in the world to live in and BC has the highest child poverty rate in Canada, WTF???....
The BC government has its own agenda and its not for the wild life or natural protection of this province but the money they can pocket for them selves
Christy Clark and her cronies IMO are criminals.

I never voted for that douche we have in power right now, it was the asshats in the lower part of this province with all the voting power so blame it on your neighbours. I never claimed to be an expert either, but I do have over 50 years of experience working and living in the Yukon (born and raised there till 1972) and the northern part of this province. I have hunted, fished, camped, quadded, sledded and worked all over this northern area. Other than a few years in town I have lived in the country for most of this time.

I pretty much agree with you on everything except your points on the wolf kill. I don't have a degree, but I have seen what the wolf kills in past have done for this area and I support them based on that experience. Please show me the proof where the wolf kill program does not work.

 

[pfi572]

Thanks Frock ??
In the late 70's this was a huge debate also for northern BC.
I remember Deb Fleet loading a truck full if cows with hind quarters ripped apart, stomachs hanging out and in terrible shape.
Drove them around through FSJ for all to see.
Point was that wolves didn't attack live stock and only killed the sick and week . Bull crap!!!!
Have seen a pack with my own eyes work as like military taking animals down.
Reducing #'s work.

 

[team dirt]

Long live the wolf. I would like to see more wolves in my area and maybe take care of this caribou problem once and for all. If there are no animals to protect then there should be no reason to keep us sledders out.

 

[ZRrrr]

"Alberta's wolf cull, as reported in the Canadian Journal of Zoology in Nov, 2014, failed to achieve any improvement in Boreal Woodland Caribou adult female survival, or any improvement in calf survival, and as such had no effect on population dynamics."

"analysis of wolves' faeces show that they eat very few caribou, as they prefer to hunt deer."

According the Alberta Carbou Committee the reason for the cull "is to protect the woodland caribou, a subspecies of reindeer (Rangifer tarandus caribou), whose numbers have been diminishing rapidly.

Who is the Alberta Caribou Committee: organizations such as Petro Canada, Shell, BP, Conoco Phillips, Koch Petroleum, TransCanada Pipelines, Alberta-Pacific Forest Industries and the pulp company Daishowa Marubeni.

Wolves lived alongside Caribou and all other species for 1000's of years before fragmentation of their habitat by seismic lines, pipelines, roads, oil platforms, timber cutting.............

 

[ZRrrr]

This is funny, but in the same light may be the truth. Rest assured that once the culls again show little long term progress, recreational use will be the next target.....and it won't be pretty.

Long live the wolf. I would like to see more wolves in my area and maybe take care of this caribou problem once and for all. If there are no animals to protect then there should be no reason to keep us sledders out.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Long live the wolf. I would like to see more wolves in my area and maybe take care of this caribou problem once and for all. If there are no animals to protect then there should be no reason to keep us sledders out.

In the immortal words of a particular Wildsight environmentalist I've been arguing with over mountain caribou for 15+ years, when I finally trapped him into admitting why he wouldn't agree to lifting snowmobile closures if caribou recovery failed:

"I might find some other reason to close it."

 

[adamg]

I work in the bush, caribou will not survive they may be the stupidest animal god created....

Sledding buddy tells me that someone in the environmental science field told him that same thing. Dumbest animal around, amazing they didn't go extinct a long time ago.

 

[gates559]

We got a herd of boo here. I seen them last winter walking up the middle of the frozen Wapati river, and I seen them about ten years before that further south of town. I have never seen a wolf in my life. Dinosaurs are extinct and I dont miss them a bit.

 

[ferniesnow]

............. Dinosaurs are extinct and I dont miss them a bit.

Thank God for climate change! Ice age and it has pretty much been getting warmer ever since. Aren't we glad?

 

[Joholio]

Still waiting Lund

 

[Lund]

Still waiting Lund

Joholio, i don't claim to have a solution to the problem. But time and time again the solution of shooting wolves has NEVER worked, in contrary to the non believer's thinking. The wolf populate quicker when their under such stress as extermination. The wolf is not the only animal that does this, so does the African lion.
All i em saying is shooting the wolves is a short sighted view and solution and in the long term will not work. World wide this has been proven.
If your going to exterminate the wolf, you have to completely 100% exterminate them, such thing was done in the US by pressure from farmers. Did that help, NO it brought on other problem's. Now they have been importing wolves from BC to try to resolve those problem's.

When i was station in Germany, they had a similar problem and came up with a fairly successful solution, "not perfect".
Wolves main diet consist mainly of small game including deer. They rarely are interested in anything larger unless there is a lack of their natural food.
What they did is introduced farm raised deer to the areas where wolf population was causing an issue. What they found was the wolf population stabilized and farmers reported a lot less problems with wolves in general.
This was back in the 80's and i believe the practice might be still on going.

Anyhow IMO, the shooting of the wolf is a uneducated short sighted solution, typical of those that have little understanding of an ecosystem.

 

[moyiesledhead]

All i em saying is shooting the wolves is a short sighted view and solution and in the long term will not work.

Unfortunately for the Wolves a short to medium term solution is exactly what Caribou need right now. Habitat recovery will eventually look after the predator problem by keeping Wolves/Cougars primary prey away from where the Caribou live and therefore keeping the predators away as well. That's how nature has been doing it until we messed up with logging practices. We've fixed the logging problem, but getting habitat back to that point is gonna take decades. Caribou don't have that long, as evidenced by the South Selkirk population going from 46 to 18 in just 2 years due to predation. If we don't stop those deaths now there won't be any Caribou left by the time the habitat has recovered to the point of controlling predation naturally.

 

[gates559]

Cougar population is getting pretty high out that way. Probably why I don't see many deer or moose anymore compared to a few years ago.