Canadian Investments In Solar Power Tanked For 2nd Straight Year(TAKE NOTE NOTELY!!)

[Cdnfireman]

The new technology is really inexpensive. 1 PV unit plus 1 micro inverter will pay you back in 4-5 years. Add in wire, mounting system, permits and enmax fee for hook up of net metering your looking at 5-7. PV panel has a 30 year life expectancy, inverter 15 years. The enmax meter is their baby from what I understand. I haven't got that far yet. That's based on current electricity prices. If it goes up it's a win for you.



If you want super cheap and easy ( not code compliant yet ) 1 PV panel and a $100 micro inverter that plugs into any 120v wall outlet and you are back feeding the grid with power. In other words creating the power you are using.
Example
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/140938704801

The government doesn't make it easy to go green though. I can pull a homeowner permit to completely wire my house and garage( done it) but a home owner cant pull a solar generator permit. Pretty ridiculous because the new systems create the 120v/240v right on the roof. From there it's basic 14/2 or whatever you are planning on running. The permit is based on the cost of the system.
Doing your own work can save thousands and the companies doing this work know that. Also don't pay for someone to "design" your system lol.
Another option is to lease a system. They supply everything it's a turn key operation. No money down or very little. What you save in utilities you pay to the leasing company. Then just like a car if you want to keep it you pay out the residual. Always a way for someone to make a buck lol
If you are interested in learning about solar there are lots of free and low cost seminars around

I'd love to see your payback calculations. they don't work for the big installations that have economy of scale, so I seriously doubt that they work for your miniature system.
Aside from the cost of the materials, you need to get a permit and inspection etc. Also, you need to call you insurance company and inform them that you've made a major addition to your house. They usually will require an engineering inspection and sign off for your roof system, since you'll be adding additional weight to your trusses that they likely weren't designed to support. If they won't support the additional weight, you need an engineered drawing and reinforcement of your roof to reflect the additional load. Major bucks.
If you still own the house when it's time for a new roof, you can quadruple the cost as the solar system needs to be removed to re-roof.
Additionally, you will likely need to install a sealed, vented, fire resistant battery box. Lead acid batteries vent hydrogen gas that needs to be vented, and lithium batteries need to be protected from excessive heat as they will self ignite and burn uncontrollably above a certain temperature, or if short circuited.
As a professional fireman and incident commander, if I respond to a house that has a solar array on the roof, and upon size up if I suspect that there is heat exposure inside the attic space, I immediately make the call to go to a defensive posture. I will not risk my crew on an interior attack, as I would have every reason to assume that the roof structure is compromised and likely to fail. Insurance companies are now facing this reality and adjusting their rates to reflect it.
You may feel all warm and fuzzy about your solar installation, but in reality its a giant dud of an idea for a single family dwelling.

 

[doorfx]

There are no batteries in a grid tie system? I mentioned permits above. I didn't factor in the insurance company you are correct. $400 to have an engineered drawing that gets submitted along with your application for permit. You can't get a permit without it. My trusses were engineered with solar in mind. I built the garage.
I'm not proffering to be an expert ,I'm just passing along a bit of what I have learned in this process. If I take a $20 out of my wallet and it gets replaced in five years and continues to pay me for fifteen more, I'm happy with that. I do feel warm and fuzzy every time I hit the switch and know it's my power I've created. To each their own and I'll just have to agree to disagree.
Seriously if you want to educate your self about what new technologies are out there and how much costs have come down, attend one of the seminars. The people putting them on have no stake in this. They are free seminars.
You might just learn something that could help you at your work.
Ps. VRLA batteries do not gas they are used in UPS systems inside buildings all over the world.

 

[rzrgade]

And as a real estate developer ... Good luck selling a house with a owner installed system.

And seriously , when I hear it's s great idea to do it because of the rebates & subsidies...
Really ! Where in the world do you think the cash from rebates comes from ....??

Ask the people of Ontario how this great "green electricity " program is working out .....lol

Put all this money into new clean energy coal power plants ... Now that would provide jobs / cheap safe power / and boost our economy !
When Japan can buy our coal and build state of the art Coal power plants ....
We must be the laughing stock of the G7 countries ..

ohh-boy
.



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[doorfx]

And as a real estate developer ... Good luck selling a house with a owner installed system.

Good point ! Considering I already said the government won't allow a homeowner to pull a permit to do the work. So how could you possibly have an owner installed system ?

Might be $15 well spent

 

[rzrgade]

Trust me ,I see lots of strange ideas put into play .. With out permits .
Do you think people won't try this at home , to save a buck ?

There is the book world ... Then the real world ...
I live in the second one ...

Watch Back to school with Rodney Dangerfield ...
its free.

 

[Cdnfireman]

There are no batteries in a grid tie system? I mentioned permits above. I didn't factor in the insurance company you are correct. $400 to have an engineered drawing that gets submitted along with your application for permit. You can't get a permit without it. My trusses were engineered with solar in mind. I built the garage.
I'm not proffering to be an expert ,I'm just passing along a bit of what I have learned in this process. If I take a $20 out of my wallet and it gets replaced in five years and continues to pay me for fifteen more, I'm happy with that. I do feel warm and fuzzy every time I hit the switch and know it's my power I've created. To each their own and I'll just have to agree to disagree.
Seriously if you want to educate your self about what new technologies are out there and how much costs have come down, attend one of the seminars. The people putting them on have no stake in this. They are free seminars.
You might just learn something that could help you at your work.
Ps. VRLA batteries do not gas they are used in UPS systems inside buildings all over the world.

You may feel warm and fuzzy, but the fact remains that the technology is economically non viable. As for a homeowner installed system, none of the components are restricted items. Anyone can buy the material and install it. Just because the regulations say you need a permit doesn't mean everyone will get one, nor will they hire someone qualified to install it.
the pics of the small battery bank etc posted, whomever installed it did not follow the electrical code. It is a dangerous installation.
The only cost coming down is the production cost of the panels. Everything else is either stable in price or going up. The people putting on these seminars aren't doing it for free. They have skin in the game somewhere.
As for the batteries, there are some that are "sealed" and do not vent like a regular lead acid battery under normal operating conditions. All battery banks must be installed according to the electrical code which stipulates many things too numerous to list here. Suffice it to say that you can't just plunk them on a shelf somewhere in your garage and hook them up to the system. Even a small battery system like in the pics has the potential to be a dangerous thing.
Like a lot of things, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

 

[doorfx]

I wonder why the electrical inspector who passed my entire garage including the solar and battery backup didn't note all these violations? If you can see obvious violations, for gods sake and the safety of my family, please share !!!
I will have it corrected by my red seal ticketed electrician immediately.

The new enmax meters can detect anyone backfeeding the system. So if you go buy a PV panel , a micro-inverter and plug it into the grid it can be detected. So no, Joe home owner isn't going to be doing this. I had lots of help on this system including lots of free labor. I also took my time and bought everything piece by piece when prices were low. If you had to pay for an entire turn key system your payback might be a lot longer. Like I said "no batteries required"

 

[rzrgade]

Kinda my point ..lol
Joe taxpayer will be paying Joe homeowner to upgrade ...
I love the way NDP economics work ...


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[Summitric]

In 2 years, the solar panels as we know them will be defunct with the new technology coming out. It will have all changed

 

[doorfx]

Kinda my point ..lol
Joe taxpayer will be paying Joe homeowner to upgrade ...
I love the way NDP economics work ...


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Where will taxpayer dollars come into it ? Joe homeowner has to pay Joe electrician to hook it up ? No upgrades required.

 

[rzrgade]

In the form of green energy rebates / incentives / programs etc etc ....
Not withstanding the fact that our hydro rates will skyrocket due to miss management of our resource sector , thus funnelling funds into these quick fix green energy " programs" that costs thousands of $$ to administrate and apply . Not to mention again huge job loss outlooks .
In short : any goverment program that involves new departments / administration/ rebates /grants / applications etc. In plain words is a f$Cking stupid idea ....IMO

Look if you like solar panels all over your roof and it saves you a few bucks ... good on you . I can give you the name of a lot of people who got sucked in to it too... they ALL wish they had never started with them in the first place.

If they get the kinks worked out , and they are economically viable at some time in the future ,great....until then ,no thanks .
I know VERY few commercial buildings use them , why not? If it payed back reasonably , every large facility would have them wouldn't you think ? Obviously , solar seminars are going to promote them lol.....When i go to a Car dealership he tries to sell me a new vehicle !

I am much more concerned with getting safe/reliable/ reasonably priced/energy efficient electricity out of our resources that work for the vast majority of users right now , in the present .If i put everything into a house that ;will pay for itself in time"....

Well that house would never ever be built, because 95% of the people could never afford it in the first place !

 

[skegpro]

Where will taxpayer dollars come into it ? Joe homeowner has to pay Joe electrician to hook it up ? No upgrades required.

Oh boy really?

 

[rzrgade]

Read the amount of people hired to "save " us energy ...
About the only jobs our government can create lately ....

Just great !



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[Cdnfireman]

I wonder why the electrical inspector who passed my entire garage including the solar and battery backup didn't note all these violations? If you can see obvious violations, for gods sake and the safety of my family, please share !!!
I will have it corrected by my red seal ticketed electrician immediately.

The new enmax meters can detect anyone backfeeding the system. So if you go buy a PV panel , a micro-inverter and plug it into the grid it can be detected. So no, Joe home owner isn't going to be doing this. I had lots of help on this system including lots of free labor. I also took my time and bought everything piece by piece when prices were low. If you had to pay for an entire turn key system your payback might be a lot longer. Like I said "no batteries required"

Your battery connections are wide open and exposed, as are your inverter connections from the battery bank. Imagine if your neighbor returned your hedge clippers and laid them across the terminals. They need to be protected from contact, or installed in an area or enclosure accessible to qualified personnel only.
I don't see a disconnect device between your batteries and the inverter. You need one to disconnect the batteries from the rest of the system for maintenance. You also need an over current device on the load side of the batteries. (That might be whats in the positive line and screwed to the wall. Hard to tell)
I also don't see a disconnect device between the system and the solar panels. You need that for the same reason. The panels AND the batteries are sources of electrical power and must have a mechanism to safely isolate them, the same way your house has a main breaker to isolate it from the electrical grid.
FYI, I'm also a journeyman electrician. At the very least, throw a piece of plywood over the batteries to protect the terminals from accidental contact.

 

[doorfx]

They are protected with boots now as that was an early picture. 300 v fusible between batteries and inverter and a breaker box installed with highest potential protected on both battery and PV side. Thanks for your input.

 

[rzrgade]

Canadian Investments In Solar Power Tanked For 2nd Straight Year(TAKE NOTE NO...

Not to mention 9 single wires running through that hole (1.5"?)in wall with no slack .
And not stapled properly prior to entering your panel
Circuit breaker panel
My inspector would of failed you right there ....


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[Flatlander_01]

They are protected with boots now as that was an early picture. 300 v fusible between batteries and inverter and a breaker box installed with highest potential protected on both battery and PV side. Thanks for you input.

Looks like a nice little setup can't say I would do my house but a cabin for sure even gave me a idea for my sled camp thanks for posting.

 

[doorfx]

Not to mention 9 single wires running through that hole (1.5"?)in wall with no slack .
And not stapled properly prior to entering your panel
Circuit breaker panel
My inspector would of failed you right there ....


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Really ? ^^^^^
You know gade, I am truly sorry that the salient points of this conversation have completely eluded you. When your rhetoric is based on conjecture and hearsay, it is very difficult to take you seriously.
If you ever choose to educate yourself, let me know. We can sit down and have a fireball. Then we can have an intelligent, two sided conversation, debating the pros and cons.
Maybe we can even go for a ride, if you have decided which is the best brand by then. Oh hell it doesn't matter , let's just go with your flavor of the week/month/year.
Until then , c'est la vie

 

[rzrgade]

Canadian Investments In Solar Power Tanked For 2nd Straight Year(TAKE NOTE NO...

I will take you up on the beer ..

Thanks
Sounds like you need a couple ..

Seriously because you got showed up a little ... No point in tripping your breaker . If you check what the OP is about , it's not really about your little solar panel experiment.
BTW , I have wired more than my share of new houses & simply put ... Your pictures tell the story !

Corona & lime ....




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[doorfx]

I will take you up on the fireball ..

Thanks


Cheers