Avalanche training and personal liability

[scotts]

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with someone who had inquired with a training provider ( name withheld, but one of the older ones out there) regarding enrolling in an AST level 2 course! This person was advised to take the level 1 course yearly instead of the level 2 to reduce the possibility of incuring liability within your group in the event of a incident??
I was a little shocked to hear this coming from a established training organization, and greatly saddened to consider this as a possibility!

I hesitate to even bring this to light in fear of anyone ever not seeking the maximum amount of training available, but I feel it's something that needs to be discussed..

 

[catinthehat]

How will any type of training reduce your liability in the event of an incident?
You are only liable if you are at fault for something or negligent, training will only go against you then as you should have known better.
I am not suggesting anyone is better off not taking any training, just that statement doesn't make sense from that standpoint.

 

[fidorama]

I fail to see how such training has anything to do with any liability??? Is some family gonna sue you because of your training, when you are not able to save the life of a love one?? I don't really get it?

 

[Pantherscry]

I doubt you could be liable for anythjng in the case of an incident because of a higher level of training. If you are a guide making all the decisions for the group it would be a different story but if your out with friends you will be ok.

 

[BackCountry81]

coming from my Search and Rescue background , I can speak on this a little. In BC for sure, regardless of training, starting at entry level and up. You fall under the good Samaritan act . As long as you are not out there MAKING MONEY off of it. IE: Guiding ect. with no waiver you are covered. Go out, take an Avi Course. Update your avi course. Get as much training as you can, encourage your riding buddies to do the same. All the equipment in the world ( beacon / probe / shovel / air bag ) wont help if the people youre with don't know how to use it.

 

[Shadam]

if I lead someone into unfarmilure terrain, I am responsible to lead them out. which is fair enough in most cases. but add ego's, beer and bad atitudes ???

the level 2 course is only for those looking to get into "the industry". maybe it is viewed as being a trained proffessional.

 

[~Rowdy~]

if I lead someone into unfarmilure terrain, I am responsible to lead them out. which is fair enough in most cases. but add ego's, beer and bad atitudes ???

the level 2 course is only for those looking to get into "the industry". maybe it is viewed as being a trained proffessional.

I disagree completely. Level 2 is for people looking to gain more knowledge.

 

[RGM]

I disagree completely. Level 2 is for people looking to gain more knowledge.

There is the AST 2 course and a CAA operational level 2 course. Two totally different things.

I have heard the same thing said about first Aid and that if you are out with your buds and screw up any needed first aid you may be liable. I have never heard of a court case where this was ever an issue or with anything regarding avy's.

 

[~Rowdy~]

There is the AST 2 course and a CAA operational level 2 course. Two totally different things.

I have heard the same thing said about first Aid and that if you are out with your buds and screw up any needed first aid you may be liable. I have never heard of a court case where this was ever an issue or with anything regarding avy's.

If he is talking AST2 then I disagree but any ops course is at a professional level yes.

Regarding first aid, no because you are covered under emergency medical aid act at work and Good Samaritan law outside of work. As long as there isn't gross negligence and you aren't acting outside of your scope of training.

edit: to clarify I'm not sure on the original posters inquiry into liabilities for Avalanche educated people being liable.

 

[Shadam]

sorry Rowdy, I was reffering to the CAA operational level 2 course, not ast2.
yes we need a little more clarification as to which course. stupid they call them both 1 and 2. gee ... how about 1 2 3 4 ???
ast2 is needed as ast1 mostly focuses on atitudes and decsion making.

 

[Zacs Avy Crew]

Years ago we stumbled upon a post on SnoWest.com. It related to the opposite situation though. A rider with no education somewhere in the US triggered a slope and killed a rider from another party.
Can't say as we've ever heard of any discussions related to liability and recreationally trained people.

Not sure if there was a misunderstanding somewhere or not about the liability comment but any AST providers we know definitely encourage riders to update or upgrade their avy education on a regular basis. Practical experiences and research lead to new learning every season...there are always new tools to put in the 'avy toolbox'.

Personally I'm pretty sure I would feel far worse to make a mistake due to a lack of training.

 

[chesapeake]

A few years ago we were told that if you take someone out and there is a problem then the most experienced person could be held responsible. I know that if you lead a trip as a volunteer for the Calgary section of the Alpine Club of Canada all people that go on the trip have to sign a waiver form that the club or leaders cannot be held responsible. That is why I only go out with a small group of friends who are on the same level of experience.