Avalanche Incident in Heartbreak - Investigation

[SouthRockiesAvalancheTeam]

We had a report passed on to us about a large avalanche triggered near Corbin in the Heartbreak sledding area on Jan 17th. We went in the next day to find out more - check out our findings here:


Forecaster Blog - Canadian Avalanche Centre » Jan 17 avalanche incident investigation

 

[CUSO]

Those fellas were lucky.. Heavy debris at the bottom...

Thanks for the info!

 

[powdergirl]

Glad to hear they are ok that is some heavy and thick debris. Watch out for those slab slide stay in the trees and medows for a while people.

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[sled_wrangler]

Wow don't even want to imagine what it would feel like to be in a slide like that ... that is some heavy hard snow

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[ferniesnow]

Thanks for sharing. Lots of evidence in the eastern Koot's of the chitty snowpack. Please be careful out there.

 

[Shadam]

we had big plans for this season to snowboard from high peaks and other crazy lines ... had ...

boards and sleds stayin in da trees ...

 

[JMCX]

ABS pack won't save you in that meat grinder type slide.

 

[waynemags]

wow that's pretty heavy layer. hope I never experience that.

 

[fredw]

We rode south fernie on Wednesday and snow was so hard it we need scratchers dam near, snow was terrible the little that was left, so we took off to revy

we been in that part of heartbreak, bad luck, rain gauge at Corbin .... It's always sketchy as hell in the open areas, seen many slides over the years and snow is usually wind blown and hard..

If we don't stay in the trees we don't even go to that side anymore... I find the other side much better in the trees, but still very sketchy in the open treeless areas... Lots of avalanche terrain to cross...Had more than one buddy die to avalanche in there so be carfull

 

[jpgmtech]

Really appreciate the post! Good stuff there.

 

[drew562]

Wow. Slabs like that would squeeze you guts out you eyes. Pretty scary. Be safe !!

 

[pano-dude]

good info, I would like to know what the thought process of the riders who made the decision to climb there was. did they assume it was safe? did they do an assessment? did they not see the province wide bulletin? or did they just have no clue? were they noobs or trained?

report said the party stepped up to provide the info, lets here it all. a mistake was made lets discuss and learn from it.

IMO classic no go spot with the current conditions.

 

[moyiesledhead]

IMO classic no go spot with the current conditions.

Almost a no-go in any condition! There is zero vegetation to anchor snow on that slope...nothing but slick rock. Of course I guess that can be hard to tell sometimes if you haven't seen it in the summer.

 

[Slamnek]

I really wish i knew what some of these people are thinking when riding in the mountains. I just got back from mcbride and we watched people high mark in some unbelievable places. Places that you shouldn't go on a good day!! we also saw tons of tracks up into the nastiest places that were obviously avy paths. Ride safe and smart people.

 

[SouthRockiesAvalancheTeam]

From my phone conversation with just one member of the group of 13-14 people there that day I can tell you this:
I believe they did assume it was safe as they entered the slope. Not sure what you mean by doing an "assessment". There are numerous ways of assessing the snowpack and stability of an area. You do not necessarily have to dig a snowpit. There can be other clues like signs of recent avalanches, shooting cracks, the weather conditions etc. He personally spoke of having a bad feeling about the slope in his gut so he likely noticed something possibly subconsciously. The human factor can be a big part of incidents like this. It can be hard to speak up in a large group especially without hard evidence to support your feelings. Also as human beings we tend to feel safer in large groups on bluebird days and are more likely to gain trust in a slope after several highmarks have already been put in. I don't believe there were any professional avalanche technicians in the group but the member I spoke with had done an avalanche safety course through his employer. Hindsight is 20/20: its easy to judge these guys harshly but if we all think back on our time spent in the backcountry we can all remember taking some big risks.

 

[Modman]

That picture struck a note in my brain that something was there before - then I remembered it!

PLEASE PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING PHOTOS! This is from a Dec 2011 CAC incident report (go to external documents to access the photo) https://www.avalanche.ca/cac/librar...ase/view/42630ee5-f200-414c-8e97-706663024e73

Does anyone see similarities in them? The first photo below is the 2011 avy and the 2nd is the 2014 avy. Apart from the obvious things like the avy happened in literally the exact same location, propogation pattern, run out, etc I'm wondering if the CAC South Rockies team has access to the Dec 2011 avy report (I'm not savvy enough to navigate the CAC site to find it), but I would be very interested to see what the conditions were like then and compared to now. If you do can you please post them for and let us know the comparison (weak base layer, etc).

Let's not beat up the guys who got caught, what's done is done, we've all made mistakes and you hopefully learn from them and move on. No one person is perfect. They've probably been over it 1000 times in their head and will 1000 times more, coulda shoulda woulda. Been there, done that. That being said, I would strongly encourage people to stay off that slope, clearly it presents a slide hazard, so please educate your riding buddies for this area that they are taking a HUGE risk by riding it. It has now demonstrated its power twice and both times groups got lucky. One day someone's luck will run out. I will post this same info in the Corbin thread in the hopes that riders for the area see it.

Hopefully there is learning from this and we save someone.

 

[pano-dude]

not my intention to judge, just wanted to get people talking about what can and should be done before ripping it up for the day.

by assessment I mean all of your points, my group makes the go no go decision as a group and everyone needs to have input. we talk recent weather, wind, precip, etc.

if someone has a concern we focus on it. if its a solid concern its no go

From my phone conversation with just one member of the group of 13-14 people there that day I can tell you this:
I believe they did assume it was safe as they entered the slope. Not sure what you mean by doing an "assessment". There are numerous ways of assessing the snowpack and stability of an area. You do not necessarily have to dig a snowpit. There can be other clues like signs of recent avalanches, shooting cracks, the weather conditions etc. He personally spoke of having a bad feeling about the slope in his gut so he likely noticed something possibly subconsciously. The human factor can be a big part of incidents like this. It can be hard to speak up in a large group especially without hard evidence to support your feelings. Also as human beings we tend to feel safer in large groups on bluebird days and are more likely to gain trust in a slope after several highmarks have already been put in. I don't believe there were any professional avalanche technicians in the group but the member I spoke with had done an avalanche safety course through his employer. Hindsight is 20/20: its easy to judge these guys harshly but if we all think back on our time spent in the backcountry we can all remember taking some big risks.

 

[fredw]

Good post and yes those two pictures look like a duplicate...

we should actually build a sign just prior to entry in there showing those two pictures and how prone that area is to slides... Might help are actually save lives to the unknown guys of the area...

another thing I want to mention... I was there as well a mountain range over and snow was very bad, but for guys that have driven a long ways its very tempting to go to areas that are unsafer in those poor of conditions

We also need to post more accurate info and pictures of snow conditions, so people don't drive that far Expecting much much better... The morning we went I was told by a local as well that it was very good, when it was terrible... And drove to Revy that night

love the area but have to respect it

 

[pistoncontracting]

we should actually build a sign just prior to entry in there showing those two pictures and how prone that area is to slides... Might help are actually save lives to the unknown guys of the area...

That's a good thought, but I honestly don't think a sign would do anything. It seems as machines can be bought off the show room floor, that are capable of taking people to these areas with very minimal effort, less thought is being put into the level of danger this type of terrain presents.

In December, we had a chat with an Elkford local at the Wrangler cabin. He was there with his g/f, and they both seemed pretty good. He then proceed to brag about climbing the 3 slide paths north of Elkford, saying it was sweet because there was never any other tracks. Now for those that may not know that area, there are warning signs, right beside a stack of probe poles.

I have no issue with retards like that killing themselves. BUT, it's the innocent people that those retards put in danger that bugs me.

 

[fredw]

I was involved in putting to plaque up in Elliot lake after Murray passed away in a avalanche... Trust me... Every time I go in there and see it I don't even think of climbing that shoot... It sticks for me