bernie k
Member
mixing av gas or race gas don,t give you what you mite think say 50/50 race gas c110 mixed with 92 octane you would think you would get something in the middle say 100 octane but you don,t it would be closer to 95 them 100
Av-gas
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bernie k
Member
it,s when you have high compression is when you need to cool the burn down , so that is why you would use a higher octane , for higher the octane the cooler the burn . but remember the higher the octane the hard to start a cold engine in low temps
5 gallons of 92 and 5 gallons of 108 gives you 10 gallons of 100 octane. that's according to Sunoco's fuel mixing calculator, so it is the middle.
new24stroke
Active VIP Member
I would like to know how you figure c110 is cheaper than avgas.Have you ever bought a drum of c110.It,s about 600 bucks a drum.Avgas is about 300 bucks a drum.Half price
I think he might be referring to the costs in lilduke's post above about C12 (vs C110). C12 still only has a motor octane rating of 108.
Yes av gas is far cheaper, but race fuel is formulated specifically to ensure consistent quality. Run av gas if you want - but be aware av gas and race gas ARE NOT the same thing. There's a reason one costs more.
Im going to look into that c110,,and I'm going to go right to the VP distributor
in Calgary as I have a feeling my guy is marking it up BIG time.
I know it is pricey stuff but 10$/L is ridiculous.
Doesn't really sound like AV gas is the way to go ither.....
in Calgary as I have a feeling my guy is marking it up BIG time.
I know it is pricey stuff but 10$/L is ridiculous.
Doesn't really sound like AV gas is the way to go ither.....
Im going to look into that c110,,and I'm going to go right to the VP distributor
in Calgary as I have a feeling my guy is marking it up BIG time.
I know it is pricey stuff but 10$/L is ridiculous.
Doesn't really sound like AV gas is the way to go ither.....
Av gas is fine. Just have to remember it's not race gas. Use an octane number of 97-98 on av and you'll be fine. Typically wholesalers won't undercut their dealers. Not good for business.
Thanks,but does 10$/L sound right to you? I thought it was more like 4$/L?
If that is the going price not much I can do but find something cheaper like AV gas, but Burnie k mentioned av gas leaving a sticky film onthe cylinders,and that doesn't sound good??
Anybody else havethat problem? Or is something else likely causing that??
Thanks
DRD
Active VIP Member
If you can get by with AV it good fuel. It's all I run in my triple. If you need higher octane c-111 is pretty good. I haven't bought it in a while but $10 is high. My nephew priced some recently, about $600/drum.
I think the sticky film would be from the oil not the fuel.
Now if you were not getting a hot enough burn with your high octane fuel the oil will leave the film.
Perhaps the oil was a type that needed more heat to burn cleanly.
Super racing oil is not needed or recommended for stock engines because of this.
The combustion does not completely or cleanly burn the fuel oil mixture.
This gums up heads ,valves, exhaust ect. As well a polluting the earth we live on.
Just my opinion.
Alan
Now if you were not getting a hot enough burn with your high octane fuel the oil will leave the film.
Perhaps the oil was a type that needed more heat to burn cleanly.
Super racing oil is not needed or recommended for stock engines because of this.
The combustion does not completely or cleanly burn the fuel oil mixture.
This gums up heads ,valves, exhaust ect. As well a polluting the earth we live on.
Just my opinion.
Alan
new24stroke
Active VIP Member
Avgas is only about 1.50 a litre and mountain magic is selling vp 111 for 595 a drum.Or the is a new fuel out called dragon fuel and it,s about 520 a drum with the same properties as c-12
How many gallons is the VPc111 Drum for 595$?
just over 200L, 203, 205. something like that can't remember exact. Drums last year were $500-$520.
new24stroke
Active VIP Member
If I could have bought c111 for 500 bucks I would have bought one.
$10/l is high. Last year it was about $4.5/L if I remember right (for 5 gallon jugs). You get a better deal when you buy barrels.
edit: most av-gas will burn white - just so you know when you look at the spark plugs for your baseline jetting.
edit: most av-gas will burn white - just so you know when you look at the spark plugs for your baseline jetting.
Anybody try making thier own blends?? I hear from drag racers you can mix
your own "race gas" with things like acetone,mothballs,toulene ect??
Here is a little info i found,, think I may try it out...In my old sled first...lol
(Acetone is supposed to work the best,it has 150octane rating supposidly, don't have mixing chart though...)
FORMULA 1
Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.
FORMULA 2
Xylene
R+M/2...117
Cost...$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...97.0 Octane
30%...99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toulene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toulene and advertised as *race formula*.
FORMULA 3
Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)
R+M/2...118
Cost...$3.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.6 Octane
20%...97.2 Octane
30%...99.8 Octane
Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU content than toulene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.
FORMULA 4
Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combines with water.
FORMULA 5
Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl Alcohol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60-$1.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...Not Recommended
30%...Not Recommended
Notes: Similar to Methanol/Ethanol. Isopropyl Alcohol is simply rubbing alcohol.
On a side note the "c12" I paid 10$ a liter for,, I'm pretty sure it's not c12??c12 should be died green or something shouldn't it??
This stuff is clear! I hope that bastard didn't sell me nitro methane or something that will blow up my sled!
yep I'm making my own gas phuk it.....:d
your own "race gas" with things like acetone,mothballs,toulene ect??
Here is a little info i found,, think I may try it out...In my old sled first...lol
(Acetone is supposed to work the best,it has 150octane rating supposidly, don't have mixing chart though...)
FORMULA 1
Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.
FORMULA 2
Xylene
R+M/2...117
Cost...$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...97.0 Octane
30%...99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toulene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toulene and advertised as *race formula*.
FORMULA 3
Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)
R+M/2...118
Cost...$3.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.6 Octane
20%...97.2 Octane
30%...99.8 Octane
Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU content than toulene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.
FORMULA 4
Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combines with water.
FORMULA 5
Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl Alcohol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60-$1.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...Not Recommended
30%...Not Recommended
Notes: Similar to Methanol/Ethanol. Isopropyl Alcohol is simply rubbing alcohol.
On a side note the "c12" I paid 10$ a liter for,, I'm pretty sure it's not c12??
c12 should be died green or something shouldn't it??This stuff is clear! I hope that bastard didn't sell me nitro methane or something that will blow up my sled!
yep I'm making my own gas phuk it.....:d
TravisFader
Active VIP Member
Playing Chemist? Could be fun, or not, let us know how that works out for ya, im gonna talk to a few of my buddies with engeneering degrees and chemestry and what not and see if thats a good idea, and if itll work
Playing Chemist? Could be fun, or not, let us know how that works out for ya, im gonna talk to a few of my buddies with engeneering degrees and chemestry and what not and see if thats a good idea, and if itll work
Yah,,I'll let you know. I know some chemical engeneers I could talk to,
but I'll take the opion of some one who puts it in their 100,000$ car
a little more seriously
lolHeres another recipe I found for those who may be interested...
(there is alot of info on the net about "home brews" I'm finding some good stuff!)I'll try some out and let you know:d
How to make your own octane booster (this is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products). To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):
100 oz of toulene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)
This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes.
TravisFader
Active VIP Member
Some pretty interesting thoughts there. I gree with you though, when the guy who is putting his home brews in his 100000 dollar sports car over any chemist
here we go again....
Mix all the gas you want - your consistency will never be the same. Adding toluene to pump gas is a waste of $$$ and time IMO, pump gas mixes are so variable that one day it might be 89 octane, the next it might be 85. Hard to mix a consistent batch of fuel when your base fuel varies with humidity, temp, etc. MMT is banned in Canada and MTBE is banned in California. Most of the chemicals you'll be mixing will likely be harmful to your health. Take serious care when playing with them. Its highly unlikely your house insurance will cover your property losses from a fire (god forbid if you have one) and the investigation determines that you were mixing your own race fuel in your garage.
Race fuel costs more because it it blended properly, fractioned properly and manufactured properly.
I have never seen anyone with a $100,000 car, pouring paint thinner into the gas tank. Most of the internet articles you're reading are some guy with a beat up old porsche, thinking he's smarter than most petroleum engineers and making his home brewed go-juice which is giving him a seat of the pants performance increase. Most of the time, the components they are using are often corroding their system components and causing motor damage or fuel system damage - but you'll never read about the 3 times they replaced the fuel pump etc, on their internet article.....
Ask any serious big time performance engine builder what you should run in their motor - see if they will guarantee that their motor will perform as promised when you tell them you are going to run paint thinner, mineral spirits and transmission fluid through it - see what they have to say.
Home made gas is just like home made wine - some are good, some are bad, but none taste like the properly made stuff.
If it were me and I didn't want to buy race fuel due to the cost, I'd tune my sled so that I didn't have to run it. It would be far better (and cheaper in the long run) to have the head re-cut etc, so that race fuel was not required, than to burn down a couple of motors while running a home blend of race fuel.
Just my opinion.
Mix all the gas you want - your consistency will never be the same. Adding toluene to pump gas is a waste of $$$ and time IMO, pump gas mixes are so variable that one day it might be 89 octane, the next it might be 85. Hard to mix a consistent batch of fuel when your base fuel varies with humidity, temp, etc. MMT is banned in Canada and MTBE is banned in California. Most of the chemicals you'll be mixing will likely be harmful to your health. Take serious care when playing with them. Its highly unlikely your house insurance will cover your property losses from a fire (god forbid if you have one) and the investigation determines that you were mixing your own race fuel in your garage.
Race fuel costs more because it it blended properly, fractioned properly and manufactured properly.
I have never seen anyone with a $100,000 car, pouring paint thinner into the gas tank. Most of the internet articles you're reading are some guy with a beat up old porsche, thinking he's smarter than most petroleum engineers and making his home brewed go-juice which is giving him a seat of the pants performance increase. Most of the time, the components they are using are often corroding their system components and causing motor damage or fuel system damage - but you'll never read about the 3 times they replaced the fuel pump etc, on their internet article.....
Ask any serious big time performance engine builder what you should run in their motor - see if they will guarantee that their motor will perform as promised when you tell them you are going to run paint thinner, mineral spirits and transmission fluid through it - see what they have to say.
Home made gas is just like home made wine - some are good, some are bad, but none taste like the properly made stuff.
If it were me and I didn't want to buy race fuel due to the cost, I'd tune my sled so that I didn't have to run it. It would be far better (and cheaper in the long run) to have the head re-cut etc, so that race fuel was not required, than to burn down a couple of motors while running a home blend of race fuel.
Just my opinion.
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