Auto Execs Are Coming Clean: EVs Aren't Working

[ZRrrr]

Electric Vehicles Set to Be Auto Market's 'Next Big Flop,' Says FreedomWorks Economist​

Stephen Moore, senior economist at FreedomWorks:

Mr. Moore's grim prediction for the EV market came in an interview on Fox News's "Varney & Co." program on Oct. 30 and an op-ed in The Daily Caller on Oct. 29, in which the economist compared

"The obvious lesson for the industry: you can’t bribe Americans to buy cars they don’t want. Given the all-in approach mentality for EVs at Ford and GM, it’s clear that Detroit never got this message," he wrote.

Even though the Biden administration has been pushing EVs on the public, including an offer of a $7,500 subsidy, less than 10 percent of all new car sales over the past two years were electric, according to a study published in early September by GOBankingRates.

More recently, executives at General Motors, Ford, and Mercedes-Benz conceded that there's weakening demand for EVs, with some announcing they would pull back on their own EV targets.

Mr. Moore says that waning EV demand is a possible signal that, aside from a relatively small fraction of early adopters of new technologies, buyers on the whole are simply not that interested.

Honda and General Motors announced last week that they were scrapping a $5 billion plan to develop EVs together, while GM said that it was slowing its electrification strategy.

GM is "moderating the acceleration of EV production to protect our pricing, adjust to slower near-term growth in demand and implement engineering changes that will bolster profits," GM Chief Financial Officer Paul Jacobson said during an Oct. 24 earnings call with reporters in which he revealed that the weeks-long strike by unionized auto workers had already cost the company $800 million and counting.

Ford said earlier this month that it would temporarily cut one of three shifts at a plant that builds its electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck after slowing its EV ramp-up in July.

More recently, Ford CEO Jim Farley said in an earnings call with investors last week that the situation with EVs has been "challenging."

Ford has suspended $12 billion in EV spending on manufacturing capacity.

"Given the dynamic EV environment, we are being judicious about our production and adjusting future capacity to better match market demand," said Ford CFO John Lawler on Thursday.

"All told, we have pushed about $12 billion of EV spend, which includes capex, direct investment, and expense," he added.

 

[lilduke]

I hope dodge smarten's up. And brings back the 6.2super charged hemi for next year.

 

[Frosty19]

Electrical vehicles not only perform terribly but are just as bad if not worse for the environment when you take into consideration bettery and electricity production
What they need to do is make gasoline engines more efficient and Hybrid tech if they want to use electricity as a secondary helper source IMO.
As a basic example a 1993 silverado got 11/16 mpg, a 2023 gets 16/20, 4 mpgs in 30 years of design between engines and vehicle tech overall is a pretty sad.
At a certain point an everyday driver no longer sees any benefit from 10 extra hp and 20 lbs of tq over another model, or deciding if they need one or two rows of massaging seats. Make the vehicle more efficient, and maybe it'll even make it so the average person doesn't need to finance a new vehicle for 5-7 years at a time.
But until people stop buying the current trends, they will continue

 

[Caper11]

I hope dodge smarten's up. And brings back the 6.2super charged hemi for next year.

I heard dodge is up to something. New hemi engine, not sure on the details, but if what I watched comes true, it will probably piss off alot of “last call” car buyers.


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[tmo1620]

I heard dodge is up to something. New hemi engine, not sure on the details, but if what I watched comes true, it will probably piss off alot of “last call” car buyers.


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Yep my dad heard the same thing and he’s one of the last call owners lol


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[Caper11]

Yep my dad heard the same thing and he’s one of the last call owners lol


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Oh wow! what did he get? I drooled over the black ghost. It went for 225k, I ended up with a SUV with a hemi for the family instead. lol


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[neilsleder]

I heard dodge is up to something. New hemi engine, not sure on the details, but if what I watched comes true, it will probably piss off alot of “last call” car buyers.


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They got that inline 6 twin turbo. They can get some impressive number from that maybe a bigger version of that. The hemi is getting old and needs update

 

[lilduke]

Update sure. Six cylinder is not the kind of update im looking for though lol

 

[neilsleder]

Update sure. Six cylinder is not the kind of update im looking for though lol

Yah no doubt lol

 

[Caper11]

They got that inline 6 twin turbo. They can get some impressive number from that maybe a bigger version of that. The hemi is getting old and needs update

Nope that Hurricane 6 supposedly will have less HP than what’s being talked about on the new hemi engine.

Seen a vid of the hurricane in the direct connection drag chassis. Pretty pathetic and sounded like crap.


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[jhurkot]

Electrical vehicles not only perform terribly but are just as bad if not worse for the environment when you take into consideration bettery and electricity production
What they need to do is make gasoline engines more efficient and Hybrid tech if they want to use electricity as a secondary helper source IMO.
As a basic example a 1993 silverado got 11/16 mpg, a 2023 gets 16/20, 4 mpgs in 30 years of design between engines and vehicle tech overall is a pretty sad.
At a certain point an everyday driver no longer sees any benefit from 10 extra hp and 20 lbs of tq over another model, or deciding if they need one or two rows of massaging seats. Make the vehicle more efficient, and maybe it'll even make it so the average person doesn't need to finance a new vehicle for 5-7 years at a time.
But until people stop buying the current trends, they will continue

Can you explain how EV perform terrible?

 

[Caper11]

The law of conservation of energy also applies to EV’s.
Every time a EV is charged, energy is wasted, it would be like spilling 5L of gas on the ground everytime an Ice vehicle fills up.
Whether the loss is in the charging process, or the loss is in the Vehicles drivetrain and wind resistance itself.

EV’s cannot do the same amount of work during the same amount of time as a ICE vehicle.

EV Charging Efficiency: Why Are There Energy Losses and How to Avoid Them?

Why are there charging losses when charging an EV? And what can you do to minimise the energy loss? Read the article!

go-e.com

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[jhurkot]

The law of conservation of energy also applies to EV’s.
Every time a EV is charged, energy is wasted, it would be like spilling 5L of gas on the ground everytime an Ice vehicle fills up.
Whether the loss is in the charging process, or the loss is in the Vehicles drivetrain and wind resistance itself.

EV’s cannot do the same amount of work during the same amount of time as a ICE vehicle.

EV Charging Efficiency: Why Are There Energy Losses and How to Avoid Them?

Why are there charging losses when charging an EV? And what can you do to minimise the energy loss? Read the article!

go-e.com

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Here is an example of charging efficiency on my home charger....

 

[Frosty19]

Can you explain how EV perform terrible?

In a vacuum of perfect conditions as with that diagram, sure they seem like they're the next great idea.
As Canada in particular, add cold weather, efficiency under load (ie. Towing), battery degradation and replacement over time, vehicle range and lack of charging locations, time to recharge them.
Thats not even considering how a lot of electricity generated for the charging stations and at home ports is by "dirty energy" anyways. The entire operation of mining lithium, cobalt etc is done with fossil fuels and cobalt is one of the most harmful elements to mine in itself.

Before mass producing vehicles and losing billions, more needs to be put into the technology to overcome some of the above issues IMO

 

[jhurkot]

In a vacuum of perfect conditions as with that diagram, sure they seem like they're the next great idea.
As Canada in particular, add cold weather, efficiency under load (ie. Towing), battery degradation and replacement over time, vehicle range and lack of charging locations, time to recharge them.
Thats not even considering how a lot of electricity generated for the charging stations and at home ports is by "dirty energy" anyways. The entire operation of mining lithium, cobalt etc is done with fossil fuels and cobalt is one of the most harmful elements to mine in itself.

Before mass producing vehicles and losing billions, more needs to be put into the technology to overcome some of the above issues IMO

It's physics. Energy out/energy in= efficiency
I would argue that all energy is dirty, some more than others.

 

[Frosty19]

It's physics. Energy out/energy in= efficiency
I would argue that all energy is dirty, some more than others.

Would you say it's a battery issue then and not the electric motors used?

 

[jhurkot]

Would you say it's a battery issue then and not the electric motors used?

When you compare the energy of the batteries in litres (take kWh and divide by 8.9) the amount of energy stored in them is very small. So a Model Y running at 50% efficiency is still achieving 55 mpg.

 

[lilduke]

How efficient is this diesel super charger

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/harris-ranch-superchargers-powered-by-diesel-generators-really.310833/

 

[jhurkot]

How efficient is this diesel super charger

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/harris-ranch-superchargers-powered-by-diesel-generators-really.310833/

Did you read the link you just posted?


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[lilduke]

Did you read the link you just posted?


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Haha nope