jumpingjack
Active member
Has anyone gone head to head 2011 etec against 2012 etec to see how different they perform with the new track and clutching.
Any "First Ride" reports for a 2012 Summit E-tec?
- Thread starter Teth-Air
- Start date
snopro
Active VIP Member
I am with you Tex. The pilot 6.9's are a way better ski on the XP.
briguy99
Active VIP Member
hmmmmm...did i jump the gun when i got my 11 etec in march??
bstienwand
Active member
Wel have them head to head in a few weeks, let you know
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
As will we, putting the '11 against the '12 at the end of the month. We will be comparing sleds that are geared and clutched fairly equally though. I would never compare a stock '11 to a stock '12.
I think the minor differences to the motor in the '12 might speak volumes.
I think the minor differences to the motor in the '12 might speak volumes.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
uhhthe only 2011 we got has a 3" track on it? LOL
jumpingjack
Active member
What is different with the motor? As far as I know the motors are the same. The difference is in the track, gearing and clutching!
bstienwand
Active member
Ohhhhh yea forgot about that, I'll still take him tho
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
No, not the same. The pistons were an obvious change that some '11s had, the porting and cylinder design is different as well. The gains they were getting on porting the 2011's are now somewhat present on the '12.
The injectors are....wait why am I giving all the secrets away?
The primary is now indexed to the crank, so thats a first on this motor as well.
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britt
Active VIP Member
Now Iam going to have to throw away my 2011 and get a 2012!!!!!!!
Britt
Britt
Caper11
Active VIP Member
well ill see tomorrow, but its a stock 2012 up against a 2011 with a 3" and other goodies not a fare comparison tho. I'm glad to hear that the 2012 is a improvement its about time there is decent stock clutching, Ill try it tomorrow and make my own opinion. With the sled geared down that low it will feel like it has more power for sure.
I asked my dealer about the new cylinders and he said its the same engine as last year, other than the updated pistons.
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
The gearing is nice to see. Most people have never run with gearing as low as these sleds come with stock. I think %90 of the riders on the 2012's will be happy. One engine builder labled the gearing as "pigeonholing" to guys who ride the mountains. Well its about freaking time we get gearing on a mountain sled that matches the terrain in which we ride and not trail gearing. I love low gearing. Been riding a few sleds for a few seasons with very low stuff.
The engine differences are minor as I have said before, but they are there. Some changes they were supposed to make this year never happend. Its unfortunate not all dealers have the same info/knowledge.
The 2012's low and mid range will benefit from the changes. I would be worried some parts that are only on the early release 2010 800 etecs and the 2011's might not be available very long down the road should there ever be an issue as some systems are new this year. Not to say it couldn't happen to the 2012's down the road as well. (see injectors)
I went to go post a link, hmmm...they have actually changed the part number, but I do have the parts list for the 2012's printed off and its different. I'll keep watching for more proof that the changes are there.
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Caper11
Active VIP Member
I agree with the parts numbers being different, but that does not mean that the actual part changed, I even asked him again today, if there was a updated cylinder and ecm reflash. I asked what the old 2011 etec pistons looked like after 2000km and he said they were like new. I asked if there was a new ecm flash for the new piston he said no.
I remember going threw this last year about a pipe sensor p/n difference, microfich said one number and the part said another. There was no difference in the sensor just a p/n change. I don't know why Doo does this but they do it. Maybe to make us think that that there is a actual new updated part in there. Id like to see some actual liturature from doo saying that there is a actual cylinder change.
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
Yes I know every year they change the part numbers. What is strange is early when they first released the part numbers they had a different view for the top end. Its now the same and the part numbers are the same for 2011/2012.
I don't believe there is an updated ecm flash for the 2011's either. Being that the injectors are larger on the 2012, the mapping would be different. Its not something that would work on the 2011. A piston update wouldn't require a flash. The pistons update for the '11 was to cure a faulty product and only sleds which had those pistons in them had to be updated. BRP's manufacturing process follows all parts installed by batch and can determine when a part from supplier A or supplier B is in your sled.
There are a number of very reliable sources that have said the cylinders are different. Dealers and aftermarket Doo guru's have both said it. Until I can put them side by side I can only go on what they say. These guys are fairly reliable.
I don't believe there is an updated ecm flash for the 2011's either. Being that the injectors are larger on the 2012, the mapping would be different. Its not something that would work on the 2011. A piston update wouldn't require a flash. The pistons update for the '11 was to cure a faulty product and only sleds which had those pistons in them had to be updated. BRP's manufacturing process follows all parts installed by batch and can determine when a part from supplier A or supplier B is in your sled.
There are a number of very reliable sources that have said the cylinders are different. Dealers and aftermarket Doo guru's have both said it. Until I can put them side by side I can only go on what they say. These guys are fairly reliable.
Caper11
Active VIP Member
That fair enough, good discussion. I was just wondering tho, if doo possibly did these changes and improved the engine why not try to market that improvement like the track and the driveline calibrations. But whith the way they are selling i guess they didn't have to.
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
No one from Ski-Doo ever came out and said, hey we made these changes to the clutching and gearing. It was all info gathered from owners. The ideas get thrown around at dealer demos and prototype test rides and some of the changes never make the cut in the manufacturing line.
The 2.5" track is marketable. You can see the negative's on dootalk and other forums about the gearing changes, so sometimes its not so wise to say they made changes as many so called experts will be negative before it ever hits the snow and its actually quite trivial. If they don't like it they can change it.
There have been minor changes for the 4 years to the XP that never get mentioned, small things like the difference in the cooler trim on the '08 to the cooler trim on the '09, the center shock change on the 2010, the crank stub being longer in 2011. There were also minor changes in the clutching and gearing every year as well. Its not something they gets listed anywhere other than in the specs or micro fiche. Then to add weight into these sleds when the light weight XP was the highlight of the marketing is counter productive. 439 lbs in '08 for a 154 vs 459 for '12. Just like with a women, if it gains 20 lbs, we aren't going to be happy
Some interesting info though, the PowderMax 2.5" is 10lbs lighter than a CamoExtreme 2.5". Fairly good weight loss on a comparable track.
The 2.5" track is marketable. You can see the negative's on dootalk and other forums about the gearing changes, so sometimes its not so wise to say they made changes as many so called experts will be negative before it ever hits the snow and its actually quite trivial. If they don't like it they can change it.
There have been minor changes for the 4 years to the XP that never get mentioned, small things like the difference in the cooler trim on the '08 to the cooler trim on the '09, the center shock change on the 2010, the crank stub being longer in 2011. There were also minor changes in the clutching and gearing every year as well. Its not something they gets listed anywhere other than in the specs or micro fiche. Then to add weight into these sleds when the light weight XP was the highlight of the marketing is counter productive. 439 lbs in '08 for a 154 vs 459 for '12. Just like with a women, if it gains 20 lbs, we aren't going to be happy
Some interesting info though, the PowderMax 2.5" is 10lbs lighter than a CamoExtreme 2.5". Fairly good weight loss on a comparable track.
sscamaro_skwark
Active member
I am curious as to where all the weight has been added, I noticed the weight was added in 2010, I assume the non-ported track accounts for some vs the ported tracks but there must be more places also. The narrower a-arms should have dropped weight slightly, handlebars, etc.
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
Seat, etec motor, adding re-enforcement where needed, skis, spindles (although I haven't weighed them), track, exhaust, paint on tunnels, and BRP recalibrated their scales
Stantheman
Active member
Put the first 150km on my E-tec over the weekend and I cant be happier. Compared to my 10 M8 its a beast. Sure it has a longer, wider, deeper track but hey. I like the narrow front end, it really does seem light in the deep snow and seems to hold a side hill better then I was expecting. Engine worked without a miss, lost power once but it was buried in snow and the air intakes were iced over. I wouldnt blame this on break in.
Go doo!
Go doo!
I put 90km on my first ride and it didn't miss a beat, 3' of fresh with no base and the track really floated well and I don't mind the ski's at all, does help with sidehill! Could use some more power but that's a separate issue Funny thing my '12 163" used 24L of fuel and my buddy's '11 154" used 35L !! He has bmp stinger and everything else is all stock! Didnt think track length should make that much of difference, and his has 900km so broken in !! So not sure if the '11 gears and clutching is making the difference...
Funny thing my '12 163" used 24L of fuel and my buddy's '11 154" used 35L !! He has bmp stinger and everything else is all stock! Didnt think track length should make that much of difference, and his has 900km so broken in !! So not sure if the '11 gears and clutching is making the difference...Similar threads
