Any experienced 2nd gen cummins guy's here?

[lloydguy]

As per title I have a 02 5.9 cummins giving me grief and am not sure what direction
to go. Truck will start and idle and that's about it,push throttle 1/4" or to the board's it don't matter. Sometimes rpm's will slowly increase other times noda. I have p0220 (i think will have to double check that #)Anyway computer say's app's voltage is too low.APPS is approx 3 years old and 100% inspec, .59 idle and 3.81 @ WOT.I did this test at the request of the guy I bought the apps from
https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/ar...ter-issues-and-alternator-noise-testing-r388/

and my number's are all over the place, on the 20 AC scale i got .01 ten times and .03 two times. On the 2 AC scale I get .050 to .060 everytime so far.How can i be holding a steady .01, turn the dial from the 20 scale to the 2 scale and get a totally diferent#?(.060)
Do I have an alternator problem, a ecm or pcm problem, or is my Vp44 about to go bye bye? Anyone want to give me a outside perspective?
Thank You for any and all reply's

 

[seen46]

is this a intermittent problem or is it currently undriveable?[h=2][/h]

 

[lloydguy]

It is undriveable , I have cleared the codes and they come back the instant I start it.
(except once when it just ran like crap surging and bucking for 5 min before the codes
reappeared)
I removed both ground cables and relearned the Apps voltage with no improvement.
green/black at PCM has exact same voltage as green black at APPS, so I dont think the
problem is on the input side of the PCM anyway.

 

[AreWeThereYet]

Have you reset the APPS?

 

[seen46]

What are all your exact codes?
have you tried disconnecting the alternator and running it, to see if a failed diode maybe causing dirty power.
can you get access to a scan tool capable of live data? you could see what your ECM/PCM TPS signal are actually seeing in real time and if theirs any dropouts.
and how many km's are on your vp 44.

 

[seen46]

And did this just happen out of the blue, or did it slowly get worse?

 

[neilsleder]

I am willing to bet the tps is shot. My 98.5 did this to me.


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[Summitric]

P0220 isn't a legit fault code....

 

[Bnorth]

strange that the Apps measure in spec as it really sounds like dead pedal due to apps.

 

[deaner]

Exact same thing happened to me. Changed out the throttle position sensor and no difference. Ended up being the ECM. They arent cheap

 

[lloydguy]

And did this just happen out of the blue, or did it slowly get worse?

It just happened out of the blue,not running poorly before these codes came up at all.I took i tout
on the hyway and using the cruise it ran 100% no stutter's, noda.
My battery's are a little weak, they are going back today for warranty.At least that is one possible
culpret out of the way.Cause as many of us have learned a dead or partially dead cell can cause
hundred's of weird problem's to pop up.
My next test will be to pull the main fuse and field charging wires(or what ever they are called)
from the Alt. to see if anything changes with the Alt out of the loop.

 

[Summitric]

What are the codes you had??

 

[lloydguy]

P 0122 is the only code unless you rev it up while its sputtering, then I get P 0236 as well.
I think the P0236 is nothing to worry about and it just pop's up because of the P0122( I think)
I pulled the 140A main alt fuse and field wires as per moparman's test and codes still came
back the instant I started the truck.Alt. AC voltage jump's between .045 and .052 during my
last few tests.I also uninstalled my Quadzilla XZT just to make sure it couldn't be causing a
problem.It made no change what so ever with it taken out.
Does anyone know if the green black from the apps goes directly to the PCM then a diferent color
goes to the ECM and VP 44 or does the green black split and one goes to the PCM and other goes
to ECM?

 

[seen46]

If your cruise and high idle were working fine this means your vp44 and pump control module and PCM are most likely fine.
With what your saying your problem is either a bad apps, wiring, connector or a bad ECM. make sure you inspect the connector at the apps and ECM closely for corrosion and clean it well.
All your apps wires go directly to the ECM

Retest your apps using this procedure -
Remove the neg battery cables. Remove the APPS connector from the bottom of the APPS/throttle bracket.

NOTE: All of these tests are key switch in off position.

Test 1. Check for open or short condition between pins on the connector. Connect ohm meter (set on 1K range) on pins 4 and 5 and read resistance pedal up and depressed. Should read 2000 to 3000 ohms. If measurement outside these parameters, replace.

Test 2. Check resistance between sensor pins. Measure w/ pedal released and depressed. Measure between pins 3 and 5. Released should read 1500 to 3000 ohms. Depressed should read 200 to 1500 ohms. Note: Released resistance should be at least 1000 ohms more than depressed. Replace unit if it doesn't meet these criteria.

Test 3. Check for a short to gnd in the sensor +5 VDC supply. Measure resistance between pin 5 and the engine block ground. Should read more than 100K ohms. Replace unit if less. Note: In order to accurately perform this, you need to run a jumper from the engine ground to the APPS bracket, since it is removed from the engine.

Test 4. Check for short circuit to ground in the signal wire. Measure resistance from pin 3 on the sensor side of the accelerator position sensor to engine block ground. Note: In order to accurately perform this, you need to run a jumper from the engine ground to the APPS bracket, since it is removed from the engine.

Reconnect the neg battery cables, turn the key switch to run, but don't start. Slowly depress then slowly release accelerator cable to calibrate the ECM to the APPS.

Diagram-

 

[lloydguy]

Do you mean was the high idle working properly from my Quadzilla module?
Because no, it was not.High idle hasn't worked in about 2 year's but with the
quadzilla site gone, I can not reflash the module to try to make it work again.
Yellow APPS supply voltage was 4.58, I don't know if that's relative info or not.
One time today after I did the alternator test after I cleared the P0122 and P0236
before i unplugged my scanned i let it run a second time before I turned off the ign.
and unplugged the scanner I got a P1475( 5 volt supply too high)
I don't know where its trying to tell me the voltage is too high?

 

[Summitric]

WHAT IS THE 8TH DIGIT ON YOUR SERIAL #?

PO122:
Tests 1 - 2




Tests 3 - 7




Tests 8 - 12




SYMPTOM
P0122-ACCELERATOR PEDAL POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL VOLTAGE TOO LOW

WHEN MONITORED
During engine running operation.

SET CONDITION
Low voltage detected at APPS signal circuit or low voltage detected between the Engine Control Module (ECM) and the Power Train Control Module (PCM) .

POSSIBLE CAUSES

5 Volt supply at APPS shorted to ECM sensor ground
APPS signal circuit shorted to ECM sensor ground
5 volt supply to ground
APPS signal circuit shorted to ground
APPS signal circuit open to ECM
PCM (APPS) short to ecm sensor ground
ECM (APPS) to PCM (APPS) circuit shorted
ECM (APPS) to PCM (APPS) circuit open
Short to ECM sensor ground.
Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS)
Engine control module
Powertrain control module

 

[Summitric]

P1475:

P1475

Tests 1 - 3




Tests 4 - 5




SYMPTOM
P1475-AUXILIARY 5 VOLT OUTPUT TOO HIGH

WHEN MONITORED
Key ON or Engine running.

SET CONDITION
Voltage above 5.7 volts on 5 volt sensor Supply circuit for 5 seconds .

POSSIBLE CAUSES

5-volt supply circuit shorted to voltage B+
Wiring harness or connector
Broken, bent or pushed out terminals
ECM

 

[seen46]

High idle is controlled by a separate circuit on the ECM. Cruise control is controlled by the PCM, than the PCM sends it to the ECM and the ECM then sends it to the pump control module on the vp44. If both of these work this means your fuel control side of things are probably fine. and its your APPS, wiring, connector or an internal short in the apps control side of things in your ECM.

Truck should go into high Idle on its own if:

1. Intake Manifold Temperature less than 0°C (32°F) and,
2. Coolant Temp is less than 60°C (140°F) and,
3. The Transmission is in Neutral or Park and,
4. The Service Brake pedal is not depressed and,
5. Throttle = 0% and,
6. Vehicle Speed = 0 mph
If not the dealer can enable it.
(It might not go into high idle because your ECM thinks your Throttle = % is bouncing around)

P1475 means the ECM detected more then 5.7 volts on the sensor supply circuit. There are only 3 pins that supply 5 volts on the ECM connector. They supply 5 volts to these sensors APPS, MAP, OIL PRESS, and CPS. And looking at that diagram, really the only way there could be more than 5 volts, on that circuit is if theirs an internal short in the ECM or a short between pins 15 and 03 on the ecm connector.

The fact that you have both P1475 and P0122 and the truck is undriveable and that it happened suddenly, really makes me think its your ECM if your 100% sure your APPS is fine. It would be interesting to hook up a scanner to it and see what its actually seeing.

 

[Summitric]

Sorry, guess it won't let me copy and paste the flowchart diagnostics from all data for you


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[lloydguy]

The 8th digit on my S/N is a C. I have a spare ECM out of an 01 cummins I can install
for test purposes, but if I have a wiring problem I would like to find it before I do that.
My oil preasure gauge will not work with the 01 ecm cause from what I have read the 01
used a 2 wire oil preasure circuit and a 02 used 3 wires.If I could find out what that 3'rd
wire is ,im sure I could make a jumper to make it work.
ECM has been changed twice on this truck in the past,maybe I do have a high resistance
wire somewhere that is being a problem?
I'm going out to do some testing now.