All MUDDERS!

[LID]

The anti-quadder environmental nuts are against quads (and bikes) being in the bush at all. You're never going to satisfy them. If the government gets stupid and tries to close down the bush, you'll just see people say to hell with the government and go anyway. Maybe that's what we need in this province/country, some civil disobedience. Our governments are just getting to be a bunch of dictators.

You're right, we're never going to satisfy the granola's, I could give a rat's ass about them and I'm sure Shibby feels the same way. I used to have Grizzly's and Kodiaks and rode them everywhere from Beaver Mines to Ft.St.John. The big thing is not giving them legitamate reasons to get the general city-dweller-non-atv'er involved on their side. They are the bulk of the votes and the politicians have to listen to them to keep their jobs.

IF they try to close things down?\
Apparently they have been doing it for years, right under your nose! Waiprous lost 100's of km's of trails, closed by guess who, the government, why, because the sheep (non-atv-city-folk) took notice and were complaining. Where was your civil disobedience there?

Look at Indian Graves, no trucks, jeeps, or vehicles over 800lbs. That means no side by sides, and you can only camp in four little "nodes" instead of wherever you want. Where was your civil disobedience there?

The thousands of acres that have been closed may not be your area, but guess who's area is next once these great riding zones are ruined. Right now we're very lucky to be able to load up after work, and go ride 30min outside the city.
These areas were not closed because of people who like to ride in the mud and I'm not dumping on quads or kwads. They were closed because of too much public (and sometimes blatantly intentional) destruction and the press coverage that went with it.

If you bring bad press to these high profile areas, you spit in the face of the organizations, like the quad squad, RMDRA, and the Jeep club, that build bridges, fight year round to keep terrain open, and get more terrain open.

Sorry to put a damper on your spring mud-pit excitement. Just think about the future, or lack of it, for all of us.

 

[fargineyesore]

You're right, we're never going to satisfy the granola's, I could give a rat's ass about them and I'm sure Shibby feels the same way. I used to have Grizzly's and Kodiaks and rode them everywhere from Beaver Mines to Ft.St.John. The big thing is not giving them legitamate reasons to get the general city-dweller-non-atv'er involved on their side. They are the bulk of the votes and the politicians have to listen to them to keep their jobs.

IF they try to close things down?\
Apparently they have been doing it for years, right under your nose! Waiprous lost 100's of km's of trails, closed by guess who, the government, why, because the sheep (non-atv-city-folk) took notice and were complaining. Where was your civil disobedience there?

Look at Indian Graves, no trucks, jeeps, or vehicles over 800lbs. That means no side by sides, and you can only camp in four little "nodes" instead of wherever you want. Where was your civil disobedience there?

The thousands of acres that have been closed may not be your area, but guess who's area is next once these great riding zones are ruined. Right now we're very lucky to be able to load up after work, and go ride 30min outside the city.
These areas were not closed because of people who like to ride in the mud and I'm not dumping on quads or kwads. They were closed because of too much public (and sometimes blatantly intentional) destruction and the press coverage that went with it.

If you bring bad press to these high profile areas, you spit in the face of the organizations, like the quad squad, RMDRA, and the Jeep club, that build bridges, fight year round to keep terrain open, and get more terrain open.

Sorry to put a damper on your spring mud-pit excitement. Just think about the future, or lack of it, for all of us.

Okay to satisfy you, I'll go find these areas you mention, drive for hours to get to them and ride them if you like. Yeah right. Considering that I don't even know where these areas are, not sure how I could have been disobedient. You say that these areas were not closed because of people who like riding in the mud. The responses on here have been by those that are just that, "people who like riding in mud." I don't know these areas, but one thing I do know is that when I've read press about closing areas, one thing that comes to mind is the garbage left behind, along with tearing up mud holes. I don't leave garbage in the bush, but I will admit to tearing up the odd mud hole. I won't apologize for that. If you think that is spitting in the face of your "clubs" then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Anyone that drives a dirt bike, (I've seen many dirt bikes cause ruts and tear up trails) then ridicules those that ride quads, seems a bit self-righteous to me, and then has the gall to call those that don't agree with their opinion "rednecks"?

 

[Shibby!]

Okay to satisfy you, I'll go find these areas you mention, drive for hours to get to them and ride them if you like. Yeah right. Considering that I don't even know where these areas are, not sure how I could have been disobedient. You say that these areas were not closed because of people who like riding in the mud. The responses on here have been by those that are just that, "people who like riding in mud." I don't know these areas, but one thing I do know is that when I've read press about closing areas, one thing that comes to mind is the garbage left behind, along with tearing up mud holes. I don't leave garbage in the bush, but I will admit to tearing up the odd mud hole. I won't apologize for that. If you think that is spitting in the face of your "clubs" then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Anyone that drives a dirt bike, (I've seen many dirt bikes cause ruts and tear up trails) then ridicules those that ride quads, seems a bit self-righteous to me, and then has the gall to call those that don't agree with their opinion "rednecks"?

Yup, there are multiple reasons why I said that, but a minor summation of why I did it is because people are too ignorant to see the big picture. But man, I've got "balls" and can ride mud.....

So you haven't heard of the areas. Big deal huh? Well, those areas are the three main riding areas around Calgary.

Does this affect you? No... probably not. You're around Edmonton right?

Well guess what, ours have all been affected. As stated, Indian graves no longer allows side-by-sides, trucks, 4x4's, etc. Wiaprous was basically reduced to stuff you can drive civics on, and Mclean is just awaiting it's newly released plan after seeing the overflow of traffic from the previously mentioned closures. Additional to this, Kookanusa near Fernie/Cranbrook has all but been mostly closed.

Following a trend here? Ever seen what happened in the states?

Don't think Edmonton is too far away. I imagine they are fighting their own battles and losing at an alarming rate.

The main reasons why these areas are being closed?

1) Environment - Water being the meal ticket.
2) Nature preservation - animals, terrain, forests, whatever.

Ask yourself what you can do to persuade the public we aren't as bad as they think and that with this new action for closures, we can change our ways and improve!

Doing otherwise, in my opinion, is spitting in the face of all the volunteers and groups fighting on both the front lines, building bridges, fencing off wetlands, and posting signs, but also in the offices pushing papers and having lawyers go to court for us.

Sure I've made some degrading comments, but when you open your eyes and see whats happening and what others are doing, I just can't imagine how people still think how they do!

 

[rzrgade]

In stead of bad mouthing the MUDDERS on here in the MUD PIT forum ,why don`t you do some good !!!
Two sugestions come to mind real quick :
# 1 Go to the big horn dam,cross it and follow the trail to the lookout over the lake. Turn around 180 degrees and look up the alpine meadow. You can`t miss it,it`s got a huge sign that says NO MOTORIZED Vehicles. If you can`t see that look for the DIRT BIKE single tracks & ruts heading up there. No it wasn`t us mudders who did that it was DIRT BIKES.....
#2 While preaching at the big horn take any of the roads that lead to the lake on your right as you come in. Go down there and talk to your young dirt bike buddies , the one that leave couchs and arm chairs and tents etc for the next party.... The ones that have Dad`s truck and a walmart tent and can`t afford an RV or a quad.

See I too can genaralize and point fingers. The above are JUST as responsible for getting areas shut down so get all the facts before you start pointing fingers.

I may MUDD ,however i ride with a lotof sxs `s and our box`s are full of others peoples crap by the end of the day, I have yet to see a dirt biker stop and HAUL empty beer cans out.
If you can`t tell all the story , then don`t tell any !!!!

 

[fargineyesore]

Yup, there are multiple reasons why I said that, but a minor summation of why I did it is because people are too ignorant to see the big picture. But man, I've got "balls" and can ride mud.....

So you haven't heard of the areas. Big deal huh? Well, those areas are the three main riding areas around Calgary.

Does this affect you? No... probably not. You're around Edmonton right?

Well guess what, ours have all been affected. As stated, Indian graves no longer allows side-by-sides, trucks, 4x4's, etc. Wiaprous was basically reduced to stuff you can drive civics on, and Mclean is just awaiting it's newly released plan after seeing the overflow of traffic from the previously mentioned closures. Additional to this, Kookanusa near Fernie/Cranbrook has all but been mostly closed.

Following a trend here? Ever seen what happened in the states?

Don't think Edmonton is too far away. I imagine they are fighting their own battles and losing at an alarming rate.

The main reasons why these areas are being closed?

1) Environment - Water being the meal ticket.
2) Nature preservation - animals, terrain, forests, whatever.

Ask yourself what you can do to persuade the public we aren't as bad as they think and that with this new action for closures, we can change our ways and improve!

Doing otherwise, in my opinion, is spitting in the face of all the volunteers and groups fighting on both the front lines, building bridges, fencing off wetlands, and posting signs, but also in the offices pushing papers and having lawyers go to court for us.

Sure I've made some degrading comments, but when you open your eyes and see whats happening and what others are doing, I just can't imagine how people still think how they do!

So by "change our ways" are you saying stop driving in the mud? Please clarify. Don't assume that because I don't belong to an ATV club means I am silent on the issue. I have spoke up many times and speak to the authorities in my area. I don't need to belong to a club to do that. There are others that do not belong to a club that do the same. I'm done discussing this as I find your attitude rude, arrogant and condescending (i.e."open your eyes"). We won't agree anyway, so I'd rather not discuss this with you anymore.

 

[leonard]

Every area I've ever heard of getting closed down was not due to Mud riding.

Indian graves.. dude they had a massive PARTY out there and destroyed them so it got closed down to everyone.

Most places that get closed down is due to usually 3 things.

1. Trash
2. Destruction of a park "indian graves got destroyed"
3. Fire's

I've never heard of a trail getting closed down because someone rutted out a mud hole.

If people don't destroy things like a bunch of 16yr old's then none of that would have happened.

look at down near Whitecourt. they blocked off the entrance to the sand hills here which is basically a park with a building /staging area ect .. i went back there 2 weeks before they did tho and it looked worse than a garbage dump.

Had nothing to do with ATV's just POS people who couldn't drive another 15km to the actual dump.

That's how ch!t gets closed down i doubt they were looking at the spin ruts 20 ft away from that garbage pile.

basically my point is.

when the Gov has to get involved to clean up a mess they close ch!t down. when they have to put out forest fires that they think were made by Rec campers .. they close ch!t down.

 

[rzrgade]

Right on the money....

 

[Shibby!]

It's funny because other then long weekends, I rarely see any garbage out on our trails. If I do happen to see a water bottle or can, it was likely because it fell out of a backpack. In the event I do, I ALWAYS turn around and pick it up. I can't carry much with no storage, but because our trails are relatively spotless in ours areas, there isn't much issue. In a year I can count how many bottles I find almost on one hand.

In the event of long weekend party people, guess who steps up and cleans up? Not the government. The local groups. For years the 4x4 guys, ATV groups, and motorcycle groups volunteer their own time on weekends and week nights to clean up garbage left from camping and tow out cars and damaged trailers.

You guys in other areas are generalizing our areas as well. We've already made the step to cleaner trails.

I'm not saying it's just quaders doing damage, but I'm saying "MUDDING" isn't helping. In the 4 years I've been riding this area, I've seen reasonable trails get turned into mud holes of massive proportions. To me, and the public, it might as well be garbage because there is nothing left of the land.

I'm all for closing all recreation areas down on long weekends. Nobody goes in.

I'm not posting here to gain popularity. I don't give a rats ass what "friends" I make on-line. What I hope to do is persuade people, even one person to manage and maintain trails by proper usage.

I'd love to share such moments out in the country with my kids, but that's a very dim light at the end of a very long tunnel.

 

[mudboy]

I see a popular theme here ... Sounds like calgarians have no respect for the outdoors. Maybe we should right a letter to out MLA's requesting to get the May long weekend cancelled ?? I have to work it this year anyways..
On a more serious note though. I will have to agree with Shibby on the damage done in those areas. Ihave personally been to the waiprouse / ghost ridding area a few times and it does have a lot of abuse. The mud holes do keep getting wider and wider and wider. The clubs down there do a heck of a job installing bridges and the few bad apples still continue to not use them. They install orange snow fence around the marsh / swamp lands and people continue to drive over them and tare the heck out of things. I do feel for the guys in that area because unlike us down here in the north they have some of the most scenic ridding less then an hour from home. That is also the biggest down fall, because it is readliy avaible to so many people from different areas

 

[LID]

That's part of the issue. If is wasn't so pretty out there, you wouldn't have all the twice-a-year hikers complaining so much when they get back to town with their subaru, MEC puffy vest, and latte.

You don't hear them complaining about people bogging through muskeg in Wabasca.

The amount of trash EVERYONE picks up is retarded. The dirt bike club is out there hauling truckloads out as well.
It's the same in the cabins out sledding. They need a sign like at the gym for putting weights back-- "If you're man enough to lift it, you're man enough to put it back on the rack."

 

[mudboy]

Why is it that it seems to happen down south though ??? I was in the crowsnest pass camping and quadding this past summer and the first spot we were at we had to move in the am. We discovered land mined of tp and poop every where. Now I have been random camping for the last 15 years and have never come across anything of that sort before. When talking with the fish and feathers guy down there he said it is amazing what is left behind I thought it would be tenters but he explained it is people in great big motor homes and trailers that seem to be the culprits

 

[goodngrubby]

It happens everywhere. We ride at Medicine Lake alot during the year. It always amazes me how much crap we bring out of the bush. Why is it so hard for people to understand that if they have the room to take it in, they have the room to take it out. It's not just bottles and cans that get left behind, we brought back a broken tricycle once, wtf would somebody have that crap out there? It just boils down to a severe lack of respect, and I agree totally that that type of chit is what will shut our riding areas down alot faster than hitting a mudhole or two.

 

[Byron]

WOW this thread got popular ahhaa