alberta government atv licensing and laws report on global

[plumbum]

heres a link to a global storey about what the government is doing or thinking of doing. i didnt find this but borrowed it from

New ATV laws eyed in wake of deaths

ahem.....(steps onto soapbox).... now is the time to join the AOHVA. here is a link. Welcome to the AOHVA Home Page . i had mentioned this before and even started a poll about it. the repsonse was interesting anyway. well even if you dont like the idea or whatever better be getting your say in there before it comes into affect. hopefully it isnt too late. (steps off soapbox).

 

[Garryese]

I probably will not be poplar with this statement but it is time for regulations and enforcement of existing laws. Too many people killed or hurt on quads with no helmets, no responsible supervision (kids) or alcohol induced. Supervision and alcohol aready have laws that allow charges to be laid; time to start enforcing the existing laws. The two recent counts I have done on helmet use show 88-90% of riders are using helmets; That is a large enough majority to enact a helmet law.

I have mixed feelings about licencing drivers. On one hand the ATV Safety Riding course is a good course to take, even for experianced riders and especially for those who sled aswell. On the other hand the vast majority of accidents have little to do with knowing how to properly drive an ATV. Licencing does not address helmets, supervision or alcohol.

Licencing also does not address improper or incomplete maintenance and that never seems to be reported in the news. I've seen it all but the classic example was DragonLadies Scrambler coming out of a repair shop with the brakes falling off.

One other thing to concider: The last time the government deemed a motorized recreational toy dangerous they did not consider licencing; They outlawed the manufacturing and sale of them (Trikes).

My two cents...

 

[Murminator]

I'm mixed on the licencing, it doesn't prevent supidity. Look how many motorcyclist on the road are killed they have licences and alot are killed do to stupidity. Friday on my way to Fort sask 2 crotch rockets passed us on 21 doing about 120KM doing wheelies They went on for about 3km gaining speed as they went , one guy had a bit of a wobble drop the bike down to 2 wheels and by there actions they were laughing about. they did this 4-5 times. I refer those ones as organ donors

 

[plumbum]

i firmly believe that education is the first and most imprtant step in preventing this. then laws to enforce the base recomendations for the people that refuse to listen to logic. there are too many invincable people on the trails, just ask them. the sport in general tends to lend itself to risktaking etc... but some dont even care about the people riding around them. this is why i refuse to take part in any more rallies. i understand that some are very well run, like yours, but the majority that i have seen and heard of are just a bunch of drunk idiots seeing who's dink is bigger. competition is fine but there are places for that, and rules to limit the danger invloved. races and mudbogs probably arent as popular right now because of that. try and tell some adreniline junkie to wait his turn and put a helmet on. nah, he'll just be an idiot at a rally with no real rules. that way he can still prove his is bigger without having to care about the wellbeing of those around him. at robb i was almost hit about 5 times, all because somebody was impatient and blasting past us that were waiting for the people to get unstuck. one time a guy just missed a kid, that was maybe 12, and his quad by maybe an inch, if that. that is part of the reason that i avoid them and take great care and consideration on where and when i take the family out to ride. if i was the parent i would have probaly been in a fight with the idiot. it is the wrong type of prevention but it may be what some need to learn. hey maybe i should just wait, i heard about the guy that got a severe beating..... anyway, enough from me, i'm just going to get worked up. lol.

 

[couleeman]

Anyone else notice something about the article. Every accident had something clearly wrong. Several had no helmet, a couple were drinking, one was high speeds, and one was minors riding one had 5 people on the quad.

Although I think the safety training is a good idea (I took one paid for by HONDA back in the states), you can't teach common sense. I can honestly say I have never wrecked or had an accident on the quad where I could say "I don't know what I did wrong". Most times it was either trying something stupid or just plain not paying attention. But because I will do something stupid again, I don't mix alcohol and riding, I wear a helmet while riding, basic common sense. All the laws do is make it more difficult for those that already use common sense and obey the law to ride.

Another thing of interest, in the U.S. it is law that the Manufactures must pay for a safety training course for all those buying a new ATV. Many dealers set up these courses right at thier shop. There is no reason why they can't do the same here.

 

[Sledderglen]

For years now the ASA and AOHVA have been asking for mandatory helmet use and for years they (gov) havent done it. Why? Biggest group against it was Hunters Association and Trapper Association. They said infringes on their abilities to carry on their way of life. Talk also of training for new users. No need was the response. It came to be that the ASA put together a safety unit that goes around to schools and teaches Safety sled and now ATV use to young students. Great program BUT some schools dont think it is neccesary and wont book the program for the school. This will all change when that special someone will die on a ATV. Sorry to suggest that but that what seems to make a difference.

 

[CR500R]

Typical knee jerk reaction from Government. Wearing a helmet is a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned, if you get on a bike,quad or sled without a helmet you are an idiot and natural selection needs to happen to these people. Reading those few deaths in the global article it's pretty easy to guess all were related to either excessive speed, alcohol, and improper use, stupidity or a combo of the above. Nothing that would have been prevented by licensing or training. These vehicles are covered in warning labels, but ever time I go riding guaranteed I'll see some kid under 16 riding Daddy's "700" quad or see mom doubling 1 kid and dad doubling 2 kids on the vehicle. One example was last summer in Maclean, we came across a family quading that got way in over there heads dad and mom both carrying a child each, both inexperienced as well, mom flipped her quad over backwards with child on it, the mom needed to be airlifted out with chest pain, guessing some broken ribs, fortunately the child was unhurt other than scared. In this case luckily no one died.

Licensing will not cure stupidity and until they find a cure for stupidity, people are going to die, like it or not.

 

[couleeman]

Typical knee jerk reaction from Government. Wearing a helmet is a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned, if you get on a bike,quad or sled without a helmet you are an idiot and natural selection needs to happen to these people. Reading those few deaths in the global article it's pretty easy to guess all were related to either excessive speed, alcohol, and improper use, stupidity or a combo of the above. Nothing that would have been prevented by licensing or training. These vehicles are covered in warning labels, but ever time I go riding guaranteed I'll see some kid under 16 riding Daddy's "700" quad or see mom doubling 1 kid and dad doubling 2 kids on the vehicle. One example was last summer in Maclean, we came across a family quading that got way in over there heads dad and mom both carrying a child each, both inexperienced as well, mom flipped her quad over backwards with child on it, the mom needed to be airlifted out with chest pain, guessing some broken ribs, fortunately the child was unhurt other than scared. In this case luckily no one died.

Licensing will not cure stupidity and until they find a cure for stupidity, people are going to die, like it or not.

You forgot to add that mom and dad have no helmets on and the kids have their pedal bike helmets on if anything.....

But your spot on with everything else.. You can't licence or educate stupidity.

 

[shan]

Maybe one thing people should consider is the spike in atv related injuries and deaths coincides with with the increased sales in Alberta.We do lead the country in atv sales and the more people on them the more will get hurt.Like was said before a little common sense is whats needed .I believe in helmet use and sensible riding but I definitely do not believe in having the government legislate every little thing that I do.

 

[Rucky]

For years now the ASA and AOHVA have been asking for mandatory helmet use and for years they (gov) havent done it. Why? Biggest group against it was Hunters Association and Trapper Association. They said infringes on their abilities to carry on their way of life. Talk also of training for new users. No need was the response. It came to be that the ASA put together a safety unit that goes around to schools and teaches Safety sled and now ATV use to young students. Great program BUT some schools dont think it is neccesary and wont book the program for the school. This will all change when that special someone will die on a ATV. Sorry to suggest that but that what seems to make a difference.

I have never even heard of the course coming through schools... What does that tell you..

Also, I must add that THE MEDIA ONLY BROADCASTS THE "BAD"... That is the major problem. Do you ever see news stories on the Snow and Mud Campout? No, but you will see the story of how some idiot totalled a quad doing one of the things CR500 mentioned making it seem like all quaders do the same. Doesn't this get old?

 

[Garryese]

For years now the ASA and AOHVA have been asking for mandatory helmet use and for years they (gov) havent done it. Why? ....

Glen, while I agree with what you have said I do believe part of the answer has been the government using "common sense" on this one.

There is little to no effective enforcement of FLUZs restrictions, insurance, registration, public mischief, impaired drive (even on an ATV or sled), treaspassing, AVT/Sled operation in provincial parks, etc. So, who enforces any new legislation when existing legislation cannot be enforced?

I put 3500 mile on my machines last year and was checked twice for insurance and registration, both times while I was in camp with everything in order. If I was deserving of a fine and on the trail, could they catch me? Not a chance!

At the S&M camp out last year there was more than one machine without the proper paper work, we were checked while in camp and no fines were handed out. This example is the norm., not the exception and SRD knows it.

SRD seems far more interested in education then enforcement because education has a chance and enforcement is only effective for those who allow themselves to be checked.

If you find it hard to believe the governmet has taken the common sense route to date, then maybe the best answer to the orginal question is best answered with a question: Who is going to enforce any new legislation?

 

[Sledderglen]

Ask anyone who rides inthe Bighorn area who enforces the laws there. If they want they can enforce. They get the money and hire the people. What they do for the regular users is OK gentle reinforcement on the rules and regulations. If and when they ever decide to enforce what they can they will. Add aftermarket exhaust and no spark arrestor to your list of what they can get you for. At least if they made it mandatory to have a helmet people may use it more just so they don`t get asked where it is. Thanks Gary see you ina couple of weeks

 

[rknight111]

Maybe one thing people should consider is the spike in atv related injuries and deaths coincides with with the increased sales in Alberta.We do lead the country in atv sales and the more people on them the more will get hurt.Like was said before a little common sense is whats needed .I believe in helmet use and sensible riding but I definitely do not believe in having the government legislate every little think that I do.

I agree with this comment. ATV's, UTV's and Snowmobiles are very popular in Alberta these days. I was lucky to share a Honda Mini trail 70 :d with my sister when I was young. Now the average household that has 'toys' in Alberta has more than 1, they have a few. You go in half the atv stores and there sold out of the popular models. I rode my quad on a real hot day without my helmet and it did not feel right, one mistake and you can be killed. I had a personal friend killed in June this year and I wonder if he was wearing his helmet would that of changed things. When we go sledding, one guy we ride with removes his helmet on occassion when he goes for a fun climb and some jumping . That is your protection, if you go flying and bang your head you can be finished.

Here is the recent list from the Edmonton Journal

Recent Alberta quad deaths in 2008:

- July 19: A 24-year-old St. Albert man died after crashing his quad into a clump of trees northeast of Edmonton in Floating Stone Provincial Park. Police say speed was a factor.

- July 4: A 43-year-old man died crossing a T-intersection near Grande Prairie when he lost control and crashed into a ditch. RCMP said he was not wearing a helmet.

- June 31: A 20-year-old man from Vermillion died after leaving a party and then rolling his quad. RCMP said he was not wearing a helmet and alcohol was a factor.

- June 1: A 26-year-old man died west of Leduc when he crashed into a ditch. He was not wearing a helmet.

- June 1: A 14-year-old girl died in hospital in Edmonton a week after crashing a quad into a ditch near Fort McMurray. A second 17-year-old girl was also seriously injured in the crash.

- May 14: A two-year-old boy died near Taber when a quad carrying five people hit a rock and the boy was thrown from the vehicle. A 32-year-old man was driving the quad on a Hutterite colony. None of the passengers were wearing a helmet.

 

[Rucky]

I agree with this comment. ATV's, UTV's and Snowmobiles are very popular in Alberta these days. I was lucky to share a Honda Mini trail 70 :d with my sister when I was young. Now the average household that has 'toys' in Alberta has more than 1, they have a few. You go in half the atv stores and there sold out of the popular models. I rode my quad on a real hot day without my helmet and it did not feel right, one mistake and you can be killed. I had a personal friend killed in June this year and I wonder if he was wearing his helmet would that of changed things. When we go sledding, one guy we ride with removes his helmet on occassion when he goes for a fun climb and some jumping . That is your protection, if you go flying and bang your head you can be finished.

Here is the recent list from the Edmonton Journal

What I would really like to see is the ratio of ATV, etc riders to ATV, etc riders killed both now, and in years past. I think if the math was worked out there wouldn't be the "SPIKE IN ATV RELATED INJURIES" that is claimed...

 

[CR500R]

What I would really like to see is the ratio of ATV, etc riders to ATV, etc riders killed both now, and in years past. I think if the math was worked out there wouldn't be the "SPIKE IN ATV RELATED INJURIES" that is claimed...

Exactly what I was thinking as well. In fact, I'd go a far as to venture a guess that the numbers would be lower, as someone else said, there was a time toys were a rarity, now it seems every household has a few in the garage.

 

[couleeman]

Recent Alberta quad deaths in 2008:

- July 19: A 24-year-old St. Albert man died after crashing his quad into a clump of trees northeast of Edmonton in Floating Stone Provincial Park. Police say speed was a factor.

- July 4: A 43-year-old man died crossing a T-intersection near Grande Prairie when he lost control and crashed into a ditch. RCMP said he was not wearing a helmet.

- June 31: A 20-year-old man from Vermillion died after leaving a party and then rolling his quad. RCMP said he was not wearing a helmet and alcohol was a factor.

- June 1: A 26-year-old man died west of Leduc when he crashed into a ditch. He was not wearing a helmet.

- June 1: A 14-year-old girl died in hospital in Edmonton a week after crashing a quad into a ditch near Fort McMurray. A second 17-year-old girl was also seriously injured in the crash.

- May 14: A two-year-old boy died near Taber when a quad carrying five people hit a rock and the boy was thrown from the vehicle. A 32-year-old man was driving the quad on a Hutterite colony. None of the passengers were wearing a helmet.

How much you want to bet that all but one could of been prevented quite easily? I am guessing the one with the 2 minors could of been prevented as well by a little common sense.

Doctored an old saying cause it seems to fit.... Quads don't kill people, stupid kills people.

 

[Murminator]

Here is a little good news

 

[plumbum]

that is some good news. thanks murray. at least we now know where the recent gopvernment activity has been concentrating. hopefully there arent any bad laws introduced at the same time.

 

[mudboy]

The helmet law would not bother me as I already wear one. However like what was mentioned above I two would like to see the stats on the number of people who own machines now days. I can remeber 10 years ago, going to Robb for a long weekend was not a problem. Now if you do not go out a week ahead of time good luck finding a descent spot. There are deffiantly a lot more people involved in this activity now

 

[Mongrol]

Dawin had it thought out with his theory of SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST.

The aviation community has a relevant saying. "Bad pilots and bad aircraft designs have habit of leaving the food chain".