3" Track on 2012 163

[maxwell]

LOL.

yes i see where cory is coming from especially with his riding style it is similar to mine but much more advanced. having a steeper attack angle with the 7 tooth allows the front end to hover and pull up ontop of the snow into a slight wheelie position to maneuver through the trees better. my findings anyways. im much more in control with the skis off the ground...sounds weird! i could see the chaincase putting to much ski pressure down and pulling the sled forwards and down rather than forwards and upwards slightly.

i just lost myself. but it makes sence in my head

 

[oler1234]

x2 on extendend case and skies in the air gig. Everyone thinks its for show.... really you dont know what your missin out on. Some may argue that the sled will auger with skies in the air setup. myself.... skies are just extra drag as well i am usually going higher and farther than most anyway. Also with less angle on the track, your button hooks would be much larger, the angle is what makes the circle.

 

[Caper11]

You sure you want a 3", to tell you the truth i don't know if i am satisfied with it.

Pros:
slow speed meanuvering is great in bumper deep or more
goes great up a hill in powder....straight
floats really nice on powder compared to my stock 08 track
pull back on the bars and she cats like a mofo or pulls right over

Cons:
I can't spin wipe the tail like i used to when side hilling a pulling it straight up
takes a lot of power to rotate it, i know my sled now bears in on full bore pulls
i run 1 bar hotter all the time, more or less 2.... even in 3ft of powder
must run a full length mud flap
must run scratches
when i am stuck, it is a PIA to pull out now as the paddles are deeper and resist more. roll over trick is now your friend
the paddles are so long they fold over on hard pack trails making it slippery, maybe its a hp thing i dunno
VIBRATES like mofo compared to something smaller due to the 7th drivers
you need at least bumper deep pow to really make this thing worth your wild.
pushes in the corners or trying to turn horrible bad.


i am sure my opinion will change as time goes on and adapt better to the track, but my initial results is am on the fence. Cause really if it is handlebar deep powder, your still not going to go much further than your buddies 2.5". As well if you only are getting a 1ft or less, you are not going to see any advantage at all over your buddies. I am sure suspension tuning is seriously required to gain back what i lost. And this is coming from a 7 day sled run out in golden with bumper deep or better pow every day. As well i don't know why anyone would want something short with this much aggression, you can literally bring it over backwards if you pull back a little.

I'm also on the fence about the 3" being worth the money, ESPECIALLY when comparing to doos new 2.5. But there hasn't been the snow this year that I was hoping for. I'm not seeing the same results as you tho. your pros are right on but i'm not seeing the cons.
I can pull s hooks and such but it takes a little more effort. it side hills like crazy, but its hard to keep the back end from washing out, because it wants to wheelie more. I have very little vibration, there was quite a bit when the track was brand new tho. I don't have temp issues.
Now that i'm clutched properly it's a huge improvement over the 2011 stock setup, but the new 2012 2.5 is 25 lbs lighter than a 3" and the sled carries more track speed with the new clutching and gearing.
when you get this track in good powder it keeps on moving when you start thinking you should turnout.
But as far as climbing whether its deep or not, I don't think the 3" is going to have that much of a edge (if any) over that new 2.5 that doo has on long pulls. So far I have not seen a gain in that area, but in the trees, you'd really have to screw up to get stuck with that track on.

 

[oler1234]

caper, my riding style is odd to most haha as well my suspenion setups. I love pullin just the odd techinical climbs that no one really thinks of. So as noted for me... it goes well.... straight, which may not be considered straight for others. We did have a 2012 etec out with a 2.5 on it. This thing was way easier to move around than my 08 setup. Your right on with any advanage at all. And that leads back to my origional point, when its 5ft deep.... everyone is stuck your just gonna go slightly farther than your buddies. I dont know how much is left on the table for me with my clutching one pro was i didnt loose any track speed. Was pull 50mph at only 76/7800rpm, should be 55 once i get her in at 8300ish. Actual ground speed had to be way up, was flying over the tops of everything it seemed. as for track weight, mine weight 62lbs and my old 08 stocker track weight in at 54lbs.

 

[maxwell]

caper, my riding style is odd to most haha as well my suspenion setups. I love pullin just the odd techinical climbs that no one really thinks of. So as noted for me... it goes well.... straight, which may not be considered straight for others. We did have a 2012 etec out with a 2.5 on it. This thing was way easier to move around than my 08 setup. Your right on with any advanage at all. And that leads back to my origional point, when its 5ft deep.... everyone is stuck your just gonna go slightly farther than your buddies. I dont know how much is left on the table for me with my clutching one pro was i didnt loose any track speed. Was pull 50mph at only 76/7800rpm, should be 55 once i get her in at 8300ish. Actual ground speed had to be way up, was flying over the tops of everything it seemed. as for track weight, mine weight 62lbs and my old 08 stocker track weight in at 54lbs.

in your instance you have an 860 correct? i think that extra 5-8mph trackspeed are what will really make the 3" shine. or at least keeping the trackspeed the same as a stocker but with the 3" should be a huge improvement aswell. i would think with that 860 and the 3" you should be blowing everyone away...no?

i noticed this because i had setup a 2009 with the bikeman performance kit and 3" track. this thing is a monster compared to my 2011 stock etec with 3". and i credit it to the extra few ponies from the performance edition kit keeping that track speed up to at least factory speeds if not better with the 3"

 

[oler1234]

maxwell blowing away.... HAH i got a nice little vid of me racing a AC 1100T up to gorman lake...... he is all in, plowing the pwoder away, i am just playing with the gas as i pass him. I could have hit mcdonalds first before he got to the top. Compard to the 2012 etec, yes most the time i am blowing it away. When in the thick of the trees and technical, not so sure yet. I am still adjusting my sled right now, but the advantage is not huge yet. Most because for any meanuver in the trees you cannot keep the momentum up like i usually do which sacrifises alot, due to the extra push and not being able to spin wipe the tail around. Some chassis tuning and i am sure it will be huge.

 

[popcorn popper]

One thing to realize about installing the 3" on a xp is you should drop and roll. It may fit with smaller drivers but it's so tight you have very poor snow evacuation in tunnel. You may gain very little from the 2.25 or 2.5. Anyone I know who does this mod also does drop and roll. We just had a similar situation with a zx chassis where we had a 2.5 installed and it was extremely tight in tunnel. We later installed a 2.25 and now the sled is climbing higher than ever. We can only explain it by tight clearance.

 

[climbin]

When I switched to the 3" x 174 on my 09 with an Avid chaincase the handling went completly for sh&t. The only way to gain it back was to put the extended front skid shock in and lengthen out the limiter about an inch. Then pull the handlebars back so the standing position gets you back behind the center balance point. I think the drop and roll puts the rider ahead that much further and makes really hard to turn otherwise. I'm not sure the 3" is taking me any further than my 2.5" in the trees because now I'm more point and shoot versus carrying more speed around the trees with the 2.5.

 

[thegeneral]

One thing to realize about installing the 3" on a xp is you should drop and roll. It may fit with smaller drivers but it's so tight you have very poor snow evacuation in tunnel. You may gain very little from the 2.25 or 2.5. Anyone I know who does this mod also does drop and roll. We just had a similar situation with a zx chassis where we had a 2.5 installed and it was extremely tight in tunnel. We later installed a 2.25 and now the sled is climbing higher than ever. We can only explain it by tight clearance.

This is exactly what everyone said when I decided to put the 3" on my 08 3 yrs ago. It was WRONG then and its WRONG now. The 3" works very well on the XP with the 7 tooth drivers and stock chain case PERIOD.

 

[Summit69]

This is exactly what everyone said when I decided to put the 3" on my 08 3 yrs ago. It was WRONG then and its WRONG now. The 3" works very well on the XP with the 7 tooth drivers and stock chain case PERIOD.

x2 :d:d:d

 

[fredw]

we have compared the rolled case to the 7tooth drivers many times with the 3 inch track.... our findings are not what you see, i have posted many videos on this

one video a few years ago we had a rkt860, with a robby case, bakers skid and a 174, i had the 880 with 7tooth drivers, bakers skid, and a 162 3 inch, so mostly only difference was the robbey case, results were on every hill we went to the 880 dominated, and the shoots we climbed were deep wet heavy snow where track speed dominated, he was over 8mph slower, i also compared this to racers edge and another great running sled from red deer, the rolled case never stood out for the 4 grand they were worth

few videos of the first comparsion

sleding 009.MOV - YouTube
sleding 007.MOV - YouTube

sleding 005.MOV - YouTube
sleding 010.MOV - YouTube

One thing to realize about installing the 3" on a xp is you should drop and roll. It may fit with smaller drivers but it's so tight you have very poor snow evacuation in tunnel. You may gain very little from the 2.25 or 2.5. Anyone I know who does this mod also does drop and roll. We just had a similar situation with a zx chassis where we had a 2.5 installed and it was extremely tight in tunnel. We later installed a 2.25 and now the sled is climbing higher than ever. We can only explain it by tight clearance.

 

[fredw]

and also every rolled case i have been with has had or had chain problems, from the extra long chain

 

[popcorn popper]

we have compared the rolled case to the 7tooth drivers many times with the 3 inch track.... our findings are not what you see, i have posted many videos on thisone video a few years ago we had a rkt860, with a robby case, bakers skid and a 174, i had the 880 with 7tooth drivers, bakers skid, and a 162 3 inch, so mostly only difference was the robbey case, results were on every hill we went to the 880 dominated, and the shoots we climbed were deep wet heavy snow where track speed dominated, he was over 8mph slower, i also compared this to racers edge and another great running sled from red deer, the rolled case never stood out for the 4 grand they were worth few videos of the first comparsionsleding 009.MOV - YouTubesleding 007.MOV - YouTubesleding 005.MOV - YouTubesleding 010.MOV - YouTube

Fredw are you talking Barry D sled? I have not seen a naturally aspirated sled get by this sled yet! In fact most turbos cannot!i don't see how a track that nearly touchs the tunnel can perform better than one where you can stick your hand up in front of track. This was one area brp made adjustments in bulkhead of zx to remedie from early models? The zx was a huge improvement

 

[fredw]

yes barrys sled is the best working sled i have seen(na), but he has a lot lot more extras, i hope to get out with him soon again, to compare my changes to his again, but i heard he has done some as well...lol

last time we were out i bet his sled and driver were 100lbs less, then add 3 feet of fresh, and a 174.... his dominated the day, and yes it took a dam good turbo to stay in front

i had a track with 9 paddles missing and swaped out the shockwave to the turbo sled, and since added some sweet improvents

as for clearence last year i pulled the bulkhead exchanger out to compare and with the extra clearence it made no difference in track speed, i think the lugs are so deep that the excess snow just does not build up, and cause a ressintance

 

[thegeneral]

as for clearence last year i pulled the bulkhead exchanger out to compare and with the extra clearence it made no difference in track speed, i think the lugs are so deep that the excess snow just does not build up, and cause a ressintance

Amen

 

[popcorn popper]

as for clearence last year i pulled the bulkhead exchanger out to compare and with the extra clearence it made no difference in track speed, i think the lugs are so deep that the excess snow just does not build up, and cause a ressintanceAmen

Fredw it could be ?? All I know is the tracks we had all improved from more clearance but all were lower hp and none were 3". I have the 3" on my 1000 and with. 8 tooth drivers have a ton of room. It was a huge improvement over stock track. Have not had a chance to run Barry yet this year. I hear he is really working well. We used to be close. But that was awhile ago

 

[Caper11]

Popcorn popper, ive seen the same results as fred w, I don't see how you believe the avid case will help with the snow resistance myth over the 7T.
The only advantage I see is the ability to run a larger diameter driver and get a better attack angle. From what I have seen with the clearance there is no difference than stock whan the sled is in the snow.
For instance I have a 3" 162 on my 2011 etec and my brother has and new stock 2012 etec with the 2.5, we both got stuck in the exact same area and as we helped each other get unstuck we had to roll both sleds to get them out. his sled had snow and ice packed up and stuck near the drivers and the paddels were making marks in the snow and ice, where as my sled was clear of any snow and ice. so who has the better snow cleanout.
Now the my sled is properly geared and clutched, my track speed has been consistantly been close to or over 50mph in 3ft of powder, and that is on the speedo so take 10% away from that, so 45mph actual track speed IMO turning a 3" is very respectable on a stock engine etec, and turning a heavy agressive track like that will definately show any clutching imperfections.

 

[popcorn popper]

Popcorn popper, ive seen the same results as fred w, I don't see how you believe the avid case will help with the snow resistance myth over the 7T.
The only advantage I see is the ability to run a larger diameter driver and get a better attack angle. From what I have seen with the clearance there is no difference than stock whan the sled is in the snow.
For instance I have a 3" 162 on my 2011 etec and my brother has and new stock 2012 etec with the 2.5, we both got stuck in the exact same area and as we helped each other get unstuck we had to roll both sleds to get them out. his sled had snow and ice packed up and stuck near the drivers and the paddels were making marks in the snow and ice, where as my sled was clear of any snow and ice. so who has the better snow cleanout.
Now the my sled is properly geared and clutched, my track speed has been consistantly been close to or over 50mph in 3ft of powder, and that is on the speedo so take 10% away from that, so 45mph actual track speed IMO turning a 3" is very respectable on a stock engine etec, and turning a heavy agressive track like that will definately show any clutching imperfections.

I dont beleive it is a myth as Daryl Baker has worked on this for years and we all know this knowledge was incorporated into the zx chassis as Daryl was doing rd for Bombi.It is quite possible that you have more room in your tunnel than your brothers stock sled?Also I would hope your 3" inch is climbing way higher than the stock track sled(your brothers 2.5).You are right in saying the angle and diameter makes a diff,thats why the 1000 had 10 tooth drivers for less rolling resistance.It all works together and if the rolled cases are not working as good the there is some adjustment that is out of wack.We have seen that where the track gets tight up front the track even rubs on tunnel top as centrifrical force throws track outward robbing power.Im not saying it won't fit but are you getting the full benifit of the lug.I will say if you are getting 45 mph with a stock motor and 3" thats impressive as Im only turning about 49 with 1000.When people are changing there cases are they making the right adjustments to the suspension to compensate?If you have rode with Baker and his buddies these guys are the ones to beat as they have all these mods workin together.In most cases they are the ones going the highest.It is hard to judge cause no two machines have the same mods so it usually is not an apple to apple case.

 

[Caper11]

I dont beleive it is a myth as Daryl Baker has worked on this for years and we all know this knowledge was incorporated into the zx chassis as Daryl was doing rd for Bombi.It is quite possible that you have more room in your tunnel than your brothers stock sled?Also I would hope your 3" inch is climbing way higher than the stock track sled(your brothers 2.5).You are right in saying the angle and diameter makes a diff,thats why the 1000 had 10 tooth drivers for less rolling resistance.It all works together and if the rolled cases are not working as good the there is some adjustment that is out of wack.We have seen that where the track gets tight up front the track even rubs on tunnel top as centrifrical force throws track outward robbing power.Im not saying it won't fit but are you getting the full benifit of the lug.I will say if you are getting 45 mph with a stock motor and 3" thats impressive as Im only turning about 49 with 1000.When people are changing there cases are they making the right adjustments to the suspension to compensate?If you have rode with Baker and his buddies these guys are the ones to beat as they have all these mods workin together.In most cases they are the ones going the highest.It is hard to judge cause no two machines have the same mods so it usually is not an apple to apple case.

Ok my buddies pro with the avid case and a 3" showed the same results as i saw on my brothers sled, there was lots of snow packed up around the drivers and the paddels were contacting the snow.
And as for climbing higher than my brother, ive said this before I don't believe the 3" is the highmark king on the hill when I'm riding with my brother or a stock 2012 summit due to one thing weight. the stock 163 2.5 track weighs 49lbs and the 3" 162 weighs 71 pounds and I'm finding that the heavier track wants to trench more than my brothers. his sled just goes faster up the hill. I cant compete with a sled that is pulling over 50mph actual track speed., and that is lighter., that new 2.5 doo track is one he'll of a track, actually the new 2012etec is one he'll of a sled for that matter.
Comparing my sled to say a clutched, and engine modded pro and stock 163 track well there is no comparision I'll go higher and faster up the hill. when his track speed is saying 45 actual on the speedo with me on the sled fresh track pull and i hop on mine, and mine is saying 51mph on the speedo on the same hill and fresh track and my ground speed is so much faster than the pros, for now I'll call the 7t driver clearance a myth. I don't see how spending another 3000 on a avid case mod will make me go 3000 dollars higher up the hill.

 

[popcorn popper]

Ok my buddies pro with the avid case and a 3" showed the same results as i saw on my brothers sled, there was lots of snow packed up around the drivers and the paddels were contacting the snow.
And as for climbing higher than my brother, ive said this before I don't believe the 3" is the highmark king on the hill when I'm riding with my brother or a stock 2012 summit due to one thing weight. the stock 163 2.5 track weighs 49lbs and the 3" 162 weighs 71 pounds and I'm finding that the heavier track wants to trench more than my brothers. his sled just goes faster up the hill. I cant compete with a sled that is pulling over 50mph actual track speed., and that is lighter., that new 2.5 doo track is one he'll of a track, actually the new 2012etec is one he'll of a sled for that matter.
Comparing my sled to say a clutched, and engine modded pro and stock 163 track well there is no comparision I'll go higher and faster up the hill. when his track speed is saying 45 actual on the speedo with me on the sled fresh track pull and i hop on mine, and mine is saying 51mph on the speedo on the same hill and fresh track and my ground speed is so much faster than the pros, for now I'll call the 7t driver clearance a myth. I don't see how spending another 3000 on a avid case mod will make me go 3000 dollars higher up the hill.

Well call it what you want!The reason your sled doesnt out climb your your brothers is not weight its hp.Those sleds are having a major workout to fling a 3",thats why they usually go on a 860 or bigger engine.Your brother sled is taking advantage of less lug and rolling weight which require hp.On my 1000 I usually see about 49 mph with 3" have yet to see a 800 sled go by even with same track?And this sled weighs 640 full of fuel.I think if you had all the mods done your brother would be toast as you are freeing up power.