2020 7.3l f350

[mur190]

Anyone running one with a few KM's on it yet?
Likes, dislikes. Comparisons...

 

[Bezzola]

I have the v10 in my rv and like it but its no diesel by any means
it gets the job done i put a 5 star transmission tuner in it recommend by a ford tech it made a huge improvement

 

[HotShotHarry]

My brothers went just over 3000kms before the transmission had to be replaced. A friends 2020 never made 3000kms before a shift module failed. Took almost 3 weeks to get it replaced.

 

[mur190]

My brothers went just over 3000kms before the transmission had to be replaced. A friends 2020 never made 3000kms before a shift module failed. Took almost 3 weeks to get it replaced.

Ouch! wonder if the 2020 6.7's are having trans issues with that new 10 speed as well...

 

[Legend14]

Always better to buy a second year of the new model, get any bugs worked out.

 

[pfi572]

Wonder why the trans problems.
I have a 10 speed in my 2019 1/2 ton and it’s awesome so far .
31000 kms and not a problem.
Hmmmm

 

[sirkdev]

My coworker has had 2 2018 f150 10 speeds one 5.0 one 3.5 eco boost and both have had transmission issues first one was replaced and second one not sure yet it’s at dealer now. Knock on wood that’s all over with because I just got a 2020 with a 10 spd.

 

[catalac]

2020 srw f350 6.7 10 speed 22,000km driveline has been perfect. A few other issues but my 10 speed works well.

 

[ABMax24]

Unfortunately Ford has been known for it's tranny issues from time to time, the 6R140 behind the 6.7's didn't always have the best solonoids, causing shifting problems.

The 10 speeds in the F150 seem to have their issues as well, my brother has a 2019 with the 3.5 and it tried to grab 7th and 8th gear at the same time at 120 km/h, locked up the rear wheels for a brief moment before it released. A TCM reflash and a new internal wiring harness and the problem seems to be solved for now.

 

[Legend14]

The f150 10 speed is a different transmission of the super duty 10 speed.

 

[Caper11]

Anyone running one with a few KM's on it yet?
Likes, dislikes. Comparisons...

Are you bored with your truck already Bud???

 

[ABMax24]

The F150 and Superduty transmissions are very similar in design although the actual parts are different.

NEW 10 SPEED TORQSHIFT® HEAVY DUTY SELECTSHIFT® AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION

10R140 10 Speed Heavy Duty Build Features and Facts
~

• TLDNR Spare Me The Details Summary Comparison between Super Duty vs F-150 10 speeds:
  
  • Physically, these two 10 speed transmissions are very different
  • Functionally, these two 10 speed transmissions are very similar

• Differences between 10R140 10 speed in Super Duty versus 10R80 10 Speed Automatic in F-150
  
  • Entire 10R140 is physically larger in length, width, height, and girth than the 10R80
  • While only 3.5 lbs heavier than the 6R140, the 10R140 is over 120 lbs heavier than the 10R80 (353.5 lbs. vs 230+/- lbs.)
  • The 10R140 can handle nearly twice as much input torque and twice as much load as the 10R80
  • Testing cycles during development were tougher and longer in duration
  • 2.5 million miles of developement testing logged for the 10R140
  • All sun, ring, and planetary gears are different, despite being similar in layout, arrangement, design, and drive ratios produced when combined
  • Torque converter is different, as is the TC lock up schedule and strategy
  • Input shaft is longer and thicker, as are the intermediate and output shafts
  • Output planetary set gears are larger
  • Torque converter is different
  • 93% of the transmission parts are different between the Super Duty 10R140 10 speed vs the F-150 10R80 10 speed
  • The remaining 7% parts in common do not transmit torque... solenoids, switches, spring valves in control system, etc
  • The operator selectable drive modes differ in name, number available, and function between the 10R140 and the 10R80

• Similarities shared by Super Duty 10R140 10 Speed and F-150 10R80 10 speed transmissions
  
  • Shares same architecture and power flow
  • Shares same number and arrangement of clutches (although not the same number of individual clutch plates within a clutch element pack, depending on engine application)
  • Shares same number and arrangement of gear sets (although the gear teeth, gear size, and number of planetary gears in the gear carriers differ between models)
  • Shares new oil forumulation for the transmission lubricant... The latest Mercon ULV is specified for both 10 speeds
  • Clutch design details that are shared/similar
    
    • Centrally mounted triple clutch assembly on the intermediate shaft
    • Six clutches in all: four rotating elements, and two brake elements (Brake A, B; Rotating Clutch C, D, E, & F)
    • The brake elements (A & B) are nested one inside of the other, which reduced the length of the transmission
    • The nested clutch and hub design not only saves space, but permits fluid relief that can lead to less parasitic losses when clutch is open
    • Two of the four rotating clutch elements (D & F) are also nested
    • The nested brake and clutch elements helped enable 10 speeds to fit in the same overall transmission case length of a 6 speed
    • No matter which gear, only two clutches are off/open at any given time, to reduce friction losses
    • The 6 speed design typically drags three clutches instead of just two... so the 10 speed clutch engagement design reduces parasitic losses
    • Wavy springs implemented between some clutch elements to push clutches apart, to prevent drag/losses
    • Up/down shifts require one shift element to be opened while another is closed simultaneously, which reduces the time to accomplish shift
    • Paired clutch engagement/disengagement results in smoother shifts
    • Torque Converter Clutch can remain engaged during gear shifts
  • Gear Set design details that are shared/similar
    
    • 4 simple planetary gear sets. (S/R/P 1, 2, 3, & 4)
    • Each gear set consists of a sun gear, a ring gear, and 3 or 4 planetary gears (depending on application) affixed in a carrier assembly
    • Intermediate shaft connected to three shift elements, but not rigidly connected to any gear set... a unique aspect of the 10 speed family
    • Having only two shift elements open in any given gear aids efficiency
    • 6 Under Drive gear ratios, 1 Direct Drive ratio, 3 Over Drive ratios
    • DEEP (short) First gear ratio (misnomered by Ford Transmission Manager Greg Stout as "tall" on more than one occasion
  • Torque Converter aspects that are similar
    
    • Electronic Control Capacity Converter Clutch (ECCC)
    • Converter clutch programmed to lock up earlier than previous transmissions for fuel efficiency
    • Integrated solenoids
  • Power Flow Sequence that is similar
    
    • The rigid connections between various sun, pinion, and ring components across the 4 planetary gear sets are the same in both the light duty 10R80 and heavy duty 10R140 iterations, even though the gears differ
    • The clutch apply and release engagement sequence throughout gear shift selection are also the same
  • Fluid Pump(s) that are similar
    
    • Variable Displacement, off axis from main shaft, mechanically driven fluid pump
    • Pump output dynamically adjusts to full displacement when transmission needs fluid, but otherwise reduces pump volume for less load
    • Secondary electrically driven fluid pump acts in lieu of hydraulic accumulator, and takes up less space
    • Electrical pump actuation enables idle stop and idle neutral capability
    • Both pumps combined are coordinated to regulate fluid pressure, temperature, and flow to acheive optimal efficiency
  • Electonic, Operator Selectable, Drive Mode Transmission Shift Calibrations
    
    • All 10 speed transmissions have operator selectable drive modes... this feature is held in common
    • The number, name, purpose, and function of the drive modes differ from model to model, engine to engine
    • In the case of the 10R140, there is a difference between gas vs diesel, as well as pickup vs chassis cab

Features and Facts on the New 10R140 in Super Duty Applications
~

• Differences between Gas, Diesel, Pickup, and Chassis Cab versions of 10 speed 10R140
  
  • Individual clutch plates are dropped (deleted) from two clutch pack elements in the Gas version, hence the Diesel version has more clutch holding surface area than Gas version
  • Pinion gears are dropped (deleted) from two planetary gear sets in the Gas version
  • Diesel version has four pinion planetaries where the gas version has 3 pinion planetaries in two out of the four planetary gear sets in the transmission
  • The fluid capacity is a tenth of a quart less in the Diesel version, likely due to the additional space the two extra pinion gears and clutch plates occupy within the case
  • An auto Neutral in Idle mode is available in Chassis Cabs, that is not available in Pickups
  • The PTO provision must be ordered in Gas version, and in Pick Ups, regardless of engine
  • The PTO is standard in Diesel Chassis Cabs whether ordered or not (new for 2020)

• All About the All New PTO
  
  • PTO development inside and outside the transmission is done by Ford in conjunction and coordination with aftermarket PTO manufacturers, such as Parker Chelsea and Muncie (examples), who are brought into Ford's transmission engineering and validation processes early on, as the transmission is being designed, rather than after the fact. Ford provides prototype transmissions to the aftermarket, and the aftermarket provides prototype PTO units to Ford. Both test each other's function, as far as PTO, compare notes, and make design adjustments accordlingly. This is why there are 10 bolt PTO units for the 10R140 transmission that are already available for purchase from the aftermarket prior to Ford shipping trucks equipped with the 10R140. Ford is making an unprecedented effort to emphasize this point to potential customers now that GM offers a fully factory integrated PTO in their "Allison" branded (but similar in gear sets, clutches and power flow to Ford's) 10 speed.
  • 10 Bolt PTO (prior years 6 bolt) offers more attachment strength and better sealing
  • 300 lb.-ft of torque now available (prior year limited to 250 lb.-ft), a 20% increase in 2020
  • Competition is rated to only 250 ft lbs (Ram Aisin AS69RC) and GM Allisons (all versions)
  • Ford 10 bolt PTO window opening widened for wider PTO devices in the aftermarket
  • Ford Live Drive PTO (mobile PTO usage while driving) carried over from previous year
  • Split Shaft PTO (with large PTO unit placed between trans and driveline) is accommodated
  • PTO port available on Driver side ONLY in Ford, and aftermarket units must compete for packaging space with front drive shaft and transfer case on 4WD models
  • By comparison, PTO available on Passenger side ONLY in GM 3500 Chassis cab and HD pickups with built in PTO drive unit fully factory integrated in GM built "Allison" branded 10 speed transmission sharing similar DNA with Ford. No aftermarket drive unit required.
  • By comparison, PTO ports available on BOTH Driver and passenger sides in RAM 3500HD pickups and 3500/4500/5500 chassis cabs with Aisin Heavy Duty 6 speed AS69RC.
  • By comparison, PTO available on BOTH driver and passenger sides, with simultaneous siamesed PTO usage permitted, in Navistar assembled GM SilveradoHD 4500/5500/6500 straight frame rail chassis cabs with 1700/2700 series genuine Allison built transmissions.

• Operator Selectable Drive Modes Available in 10R140 in Super Duty Applications
  
  • Normal Mode: (Default)
  • Slippery Mode: (In lighter vehicle/transmission applications described as Grass/Gravel/Wet/LightSnow Mode) Intended to limit wheel spin, operates in conjuction with brakes and electronic stability controls, less aggressive shift and throttle input reactions
  • Deep Snow and Sand Mode: Agressive reaction to throttle inputs, allows wheel spin, holds gears longer, intended to power through difficult spots
  • Tow/Haul Mode: Operates similar to previous years, reduces gear hunting on light or undulating grades, downshifts more aggressively, permits individual gear shifting
  • Commercial Vehicle Mode: Limited to Chassis Cab models only (stated to be a Ford Marketing decision). Automatically shifts transmission into neutral when idling at stop lights, and automatically shifts back into drive again on throttle input. Similar in principal to genuine Allison commercial automatics (2000/3000/4000 series) that have Neutral on Stop capabiity to reduce fuel wasted from higher idle speed required to keep engine from stalling in Drive
  • Off Road Mode: Limited to Tremor only. Includes sensor to seek and destroy Ram Power Wagons within vicinity. j/k! I didn't pay attention to what this mode does, but will update later

• A THIRD variant of RWD/4WD 10 speed transmission is coming within 3 years... the 10R100
  
  • It is speculated that the 10R100 will eventually replace the 6R100 G

• BOTH current models of Ford 10 Speed transmissions are already slated for major internal updates within the next 3 years, even though the 10R140 just started shipping to customers this month
  
  • The Livonia Transmission Plant is committed to a $100 million dollar investment. in part to upgrade the 10R80, as well as built the new BEV eTrans.
  • The Sharonville Ohio Transmission Plant is committed to a $130 million dollar investment, in part to ugrade the 10R140, the 10R80, and build the new 10R100.

• Brief talk about that GM "Allison" 10 speed for the 2020 Silverado and Sierra 2500HD/3500HD
  
  • Uses 4 simple planetary gear sets.
  • Uses 6 clutch/shift elements... 4 rotating clutches, and two brake clutches.
  • Uses an off axis variable displacement pump
  • Uses a second electically actuated pump in lieu of hydraulic accumulator
  • Uses an integral one piece case that incorporates the bell housing
  • Hmmmm.... does any of the above sound familiar?
  • Architecturally, yes. But gear ratios, controls, and PTO implementation obviously differ.
  • Ford lead the RWD design in the GM-Ford Transmission partnership, while GM lead FWD
  • Ford applied for and received patents on many inventions in the shared RWD 10 Speed
  • Source for GM transmission info: GM Tech Link, A General Motors Service Publication
  • Closing thought: GM uses a metal pan. Ford's new 10R140 trans pan is plastic... for "lightweighting". Bring back memories of plastic oil pans on the first year 2011 6.7?

Gear Ratio Range Comparisons
~

• 10 Speed 10R140 TorqShift® Heavy Duty with SelectShift® (New for 2020)
  
  • 1 -- 4.615
  • 2 -- 2.919
  • 3 -- 2.132
  • 4 -- 1.773
  • 5 -- 1.519
  • 6 -- 1.277
  • 7 -- 1.000
  • 8 -- 0.851
  • 9 -- 0.687
  • 10- 0.632
  • Reverse -- 4.695

• 6 Speed 6R140 TorqShift® Heavy Duty with SelectShift®
  
  • 1 -- 3.974
  • 2 -- 2.318
  • 3 -- 1.516
  • 4 -- 1.149
  • 5 -- 0.858
  • 6 -- 0.674
  • Reverse -- 3.128

• 6 Speed 6R100 TorqShift®-G™ Light Duty
  
  • 1 -- 4.17
  • 2 -- 2.34
  • 3 -- 1.52
  • 4 -- 1.14
  • 5 -- 0.87
  • 6 -- 0.69
  • Reverse -- 3.40

• 10 Speed 10L1000 GM "Allison" Branded 2020 & up Silverado/Sierra 2500/3500
  
  • 1 -- 4.54
  • 2 -- 2.87
  • 3 -- 2.06
  • 4 -- 1.72
  • 5 -- 1.48
  • 6 -- 1.26
  • 7 -- 1.00
  • 8 -- 0.85
  • 9 -- 0.69
  • 10 - 0.63
  • Reverse -- 4.54

• 10 Speed 10L90 and 10L80 GM Hydramatics (Post collaboration with Ford)
  
  • 1 -- 4.70
  • 2 -- 2.99
  • 3 -- 2.15
  • 4 -- 1.80
  • 5 -- 1.52
  • 6 -- 1.28
  • 7 -- 1.00
  • 8 -- 0.85
  • 9 -- 0.69
  • 10 - 0.64
  • Reverse -- 4.87

• 10 Speed 10R80 2017 & up Expedition / Ford F-150
  
  • 1 -- 4.6957
  • 2 -- 2.9851
  • 3 -- 2.1462
  • 4 -- 1.7690
  • 5 -- 1.5201
  • 6 -- 1.2700
  • 7 -- 1.0000
  • 8 -- 0.8538
  • 9 -- 0.6892
  • 10- 0.6357
  • Reverse -- 4.8661

 

[Legend14]

Does anyone know if the Allison 10 speed would mate up to the 7.3?

 

[ABMax24]

Does anyone know if the Allison 10 speed would mate up to the 7.3?

There's a few problems with that:

First, the new 10 speed "allison" isn't an Allison transmission at all. It's a joint venture design between Ford and GM, in the same way the GM and Ford 1/2 tons share the same 10 speed transmission design. It's built in house by GM with a license to keep the Allison name.

Second, the odds of anyone being able to crack both the Ford and GM ECU's and TCM's to allow them to communicate together properly is next to zero. So you'd never get it to shift right. You'd probably never get it to shift out of park.

Third, why would you want to? the 10R140 in the Ford and the 10L100 in the GM are the same design, basically with just clutch packs, different gear ratios, and tuning to differentiate them.

 

[Caper11]

Great info ABmax!

You sure the GM HD transmission was built in collaboration with ford tho? Allison oversaw the design of the new Allison when GM was designing it.


Rumour mill is saying the new ram may have a 9 speed Allison.

 

[Legend14]

I think the transmission collaboration ended last year but,all good points and info.

 

[mur190]

Are you bored with your truck already Bud???

Haha Negative! im loving my 2019 and all of the 3500kms ive put on it since March, was just wondering how the new 7.3 gasser was doing, and if anyone on here has one and wants 4 air filters let me know, I fugged up on my rock auto order lol.

 

[ABMax24]

Great info ABmax!

You sure the GM HD transmission was built in collaboration with ford tho? Allison oversaw the design of the new Allison when GM was designing it.


Rumour mill is saying the new ram may have a 9 speed Allison.

I think the transmission collaboration ended last year but,all good points and info.

Yeah I think you are both right. The article I read said it was a continuation of the joint venture. But it makes sense that they aren't part of that joint venture anymore. Probably different design groups. I guess that's what I get for believing something on the internet.

I also did see that 9 speed Ram rumour. I wonder how that will work though with GM still having a relationship with Allison in the pickup market? Personally I think their motor is the bigger issue though, Cummins makes incredible engines for semi's and other heavy equipment, but I don't think they have the want or capability to produce the high strung modern diesels like the L5P Duramax or the 2020 Powerstroke. Ford having a 75hp advantage over the 400hp cummins is a huge difference, I'm not a Dodge guy and I definitely won't be one paying dollar for dollar with Ford or GM for 80% of the horsepower.

 

[Caper11]

In 2019, the cummins engine was redesigned.
Diesels are all about torque, torque gets you up the hills. As far as HP, need to see the HP curve charts and see what the HP is in full converter lock up at cruising speed. In 2012 the HP did not change when the HO cummins was released. But at cruising speed, the engine made 40 hp more, than the 2011 engine.
I dont think these engines see 2800rpm climbing hills.

Ford and Ram are neck and neck in the torque race, GM is lagging behind in that department, for now.
For the lowest HP engine, ram was nipping at the heals of the ford in the latest Ike hill climb challenge. GM came in third. A new transmission in the ram could make things more interesting, will it be a Allison? Dunno, maybe a ZF 8 speed that Ram and dodge are currently using.
All of these new trucks are amazing, and super expensive, truthfully, I like all of them.

First truck I had when I was trucking was a freightliner with a M11 cummins in it, 370hp and 1450lb ft.
Man these pickup trucks are becoming hotrods lol.

 

[ABMax24]

Torque is nice, and really helps to keep rpm's down when lugging down the highway, and prevents downshifting when rolling up hills.

But when you put your foot to the floor and need the absolute max the truck can deliver hp is all that matters.

I really hate Dodge marketing in this regard, torque does not make you the fastest guy up the hill, hp does, and it most certainly doesn't make the Cummins the most powerful diesel pickup as their marketing claims, it is in fact the least powerful. Torque and HP are directly related by rpm, Torque is meaningless with rotational speed to provide power, you have to carry that torque up the rpm range to make power.