2019 Release Conversation

[Rotax_Kid]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Doo should worry about not blowing belts with 160 hp. Not 220....

Its all good...new for 19 is a secondary that wobbles opposite the primary to counteract

 

[BeachSled]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Its all good...new for 19 is a secondary that wobbles opposite the primary to counteract

It will have special timing marks for the offset from the primary. Required to check timing marks every 20 minutes. lol

 

[deaner]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Its all good...new for 19 is a secondary that wobbles opposite the primary to counteract

I heard the secondary offset will be described as a wibble. They have patented the term wibble wobble cvt system.

 

[lilduke]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Yeah they are already unreliable enough without boost.

 

[skegpro]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Yeah they are already unreliable enough without boost.

There is probably a crank update coming for 2019. Lol

 

[d mills]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Yeah they are already unreliable enough without boost.

I can’t phuckin believe how much I wish I would have bought a freeride instead. I had the utmost confidence in my ‘12. None in my ‘17.

 

[Clode]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

snow check time is near, Norona videos are ramping up

 

[snochuk]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

snow check time is near, Norona videos are ramping up

Dagg 44, BRPCARES and the likes should all be showing up and cranking the propoganda handle hard any day now!
The big day is released.

I'm excited to see what they have this year.

 

[Trashy]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

snow check time is near, Norona videos are ramping up

Yayyyy....... more stickies........ lol

 

[Teth-Air]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

I like the 850 Doo and it will be on my possible buy list this year as I can clutch a sled. What concerns me is all the reports I am getting from a friend in Revy that is seeing all kinds of other failures such as cranks, motor mounts, clutches, bulk heads, wiring etc. My impression was this sled was built for reliability, but is it?

 

[skegpro]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

I like the 850 Doo and it will be on my possible buy list this year as I can clutch a sled. What concerns me is all the reports I am getting from a friend in Revy that is seeing all kinds of other failures such as cranks, motor mounts, clutches, bulk heads, wiring etc. My impression was this sled was built for reliability, but is it?

So what's your fix for the smoking hot clutches?

 

[canuck5]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

He's mounting this on it

 

[NoBrakes!]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/011af09194f6f08119b26455084e305e.jpg
He's mounting this on it

Im a big fan!

 

[skegpro]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/011af09194f6f08119b26455084e305e.jpg
He's mounting this on it

Maybe this isn't a turbo.
It's a forced air clutch cooler.

 

[skegpro]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Saw this rant, interesting read.
What do you think?

"this write has gotten me blocked and removed off of the 850 owners exchange . just thought people should see it and get some insight on the problem .

So I am getting tired of people calling my group of riding buddies a bunch of punks who don’t know anything about sleds, how to ride, what were doing wrong you name it we have heard it. Just because they’re all blowing up engines and belts daily.
So I am going to break down exactly my theory and many others on the 850 belt blowing, crank bearing, clutch heat issue whatever it is. Simply put math doesn’t lie. Not ever. Not if you’re an engineer at BRP. Not even if theres a fire. Math always tells the truth. ALWAYS. Take it or leave it. Its fairly simple.

So we start with an 850 stroker engine.
most people know that a stroker engine needs a balanced crankshaft to offset the placement in the engine to soak up vibration caused by the advanced stroke.
And I’m sure everyone by now has seen the bulletin that skidoo has released claiming they have in simple words “an engineered clutch wobble”

What is it? It is an inner primary sheave with anywhere from
.010” - .050” runout from the inside diameter to the outside. And yes. Every single one is that much different thats how inconsistent they are to begin with. This simply means that the sheave is pressed on and permanently warped. Yes I said warped. Meanwhile the outer sheave is straight as an arrow.

Now BRPs theory on this, simply to save weight rather than putting a balanced crank inside the engine. They can manipulate the offset by making the primary clutch offset to the engines advantage. In return losing vibration. They hope… now that the belt turning inside the clutch at full rpm moving with the runout in the sheave, it works with the offset in the engine. The vibration is gone! Well… BRP hopes.

This sounds even ridiculous on paper, but it works. but only with no other variables. How about belt stretch, belt wear, belt heat - rubber flexibility at different RPM constantly. Where are all of these variables thrown into play? No where! How about the heat that this whole thing even causes?

I mean people want an answer on why belts are blowing? Its simple when I belt reaches more then 240 degrees which is caused by this “offset clutch” that belt will fall apart. Glue melts. The belts delaminate. No belt can hold up to the heat which isn the root to the belt blowing, all caused by this “engineered clutch wobble” I have personally seen well over 300 degrees clutch temperatures. Nothing holds together at that temperature. And no there is no magic. Clutching fix, no one gives a **** if your Jesus or not. You don’t have anything that will fix it as long as that clutch “wobble” is still there.

So how come crank bearings, cranks, rods and everything is getting destroyed in these engines? Oh but they burn so much oil. How can they just blow up?

Let me tell you.

All bearings have tolerances and clearances. And if exceeded are a recipe for short term wear. Oil or not. But what if the tolerances aren’t exceeded? Well then what else is there?

Vibration. The vibration caused by the stroker engine is somewhat terminated by this clutch wobble. But actually its not. All those variable with the belt heat, stretch, malleability and so many others come into play. On paper yes it eliminates the stroker vibration. In theory…

But really it still creates enough vibration to wear bearing out short term, which most people know too much vibration is a bearing killer. every single bearing brand new has a small amount of walk. It has to move and rotate. And it needs tolerances to do so.

So lets throw this clutch spinning at 7900 RPM (what skidoo calls for) with an offset inner sheave and put a belt in it. the runout on these inner sheaves are bad enough that the belts at full rpm can run up to 0.30” higher on one side of the clutch than the other. So this clutch spinning at 7900 RPM with the belt. This belt grips and loses grip every single rotation at least twice. Maybe more who actually knows depending on the numbers. But it does move that much. So this belt gets grip and loses it about 15,800 times per minute or more given your running 7900 rpms.

The pressure levels on the crankshaft from this are off this charts. Not high pressure. But simply just bouncing back and forth. (Vibration) so yes this is vibrating the crankshaft.
Which is vibrating inside the Crankshaft bearing on the PTO side. So all of a sudden this bearing is getting way more vibration than it can handle long term. Those tight new tolerances turn into larger and larger ones over time. But theres still another variable. The clutch heat. The heat made on the primary clutch anywhere north of 240 degrees on the primary itself, gets transferred into the crankshaft. And into the bearing. Heat does crazy things. Expanding and shrinking as temperatures change. Heat kills all bearings. Every time. I don’t care if your uncle or grandfather or your cousin says it doesn’t. But it does. So what is 240 degrees?

Its really not a lot for a bearing. But throw the vibration into it with the small expansions and shrinking at random rates. And it makes for quick easy short term wear and eventually will wreck it.

Now I know a ton of people will accuse me of not knowing **** because they don’t want to believe this is true. But its quite simple in reality. Its the way it works and always has. Math doesn’t lie. il let you guys do the math.

Now why do I care so much? Well when I see almost all of my buddies on 850s not even wanting to ride to their maximum ability because they doing want to blow belts because lets face it, belts aren’t cheap! And not only that but all the testing and trying I’ve seen my group of friends do and spend thousands to try and figure this problem out. Only to figure out you can’t do anything because it is the design itself that is the problem.

People say ohh if your worrying about cost of belts you shouldn’t be riding…

Yeah well when your like us and work all off season as much as possible to take the winter off and do nothing but ride because its what we live for its all that we want to do, spending every last dime as average guys and girls just because we love to ride. Throwing thousands into the equation for belts is just ridiculous. This shouldn’t be an issue. We crossed this bridge years ago. All we want to do is ride our sleds and have fun and for some of us it costs $1 per KM in belts or even more. It takes the fun out of it. Too the point where some of us can’t even afford it and don’t even want to. Sledding is already expensive enough.

BRP fix your problems, and start backing it up. There is a problem and you need to fix it. This is just the start. Theres a bunch more of us that can be even louder on social media. Step up to the plate and fix your issues.

One mad off sledder, of many others."

 

[lilduke]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Saw this rant, interesting read.
What do you think?

"

As a veteran sled bum I think these guys bought into the Hype. I love Skidoo sleds and have rode them my whole life,
but there is a good reason I don't ride a 8****ty. Doesn't take a genius to figure out the wobble clutch is fawked.

Smart sled bums that want to ride go for reliability over flashy new products.

 

[lilduke]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Like really, who would buy one of these thing after last season??






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8_nRkCJx9o

 

[Merc63]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

I didn't see one math calculation...

Hes assuming the 850 is just a stroked 800. Does anyone have engine specs. Crank position, etc? I've never seen that around. I thought this was a completely new engine, not just longer rods installed.

 

[niner]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

I didn't see one math calculation...

Hes assuming the 850 is just a stroked 800. Does anyone have engine specs. Crank position, etc? I've never seen that around. I thought this was a completely new engine, not just longer rods installed.

.....

 

[Foxstar45]

Re: 2019 release dates ??

Who was this that wrote this rant?