2012 summit 800 e-tec help!!!!!!

[maierch]

He's got Micku's can on it so shouldn't it work without the Exhaust Temp Sensor? I'd pull the sensor first or call TSS. Snopro has the same pipe and no issues?

I have the same pipe on my sled, I had a couple of issues with it falling on its face when I first installed it and was going up the trail at low elevation but once I got my clutching (added pin weight and changed clickers) sorted out I haven't seen a problem since.

To the best of my knowledge the reflash is to correct an over voltage code that was showing up on some of the 12s.

 

[kidder17]

To the best of my knowledge the reflash is to correct an over voltage code that was showing up on some of the 12s.

If this is what the reflash is for then this is the exact reason why I am trying to figure this out on my own.... Cause 98.985% of dealers could not trouble shoot d?ck. I would find it hard to believe that BRP would issue this reflash to their dealers without an explanation of what it is intended to correct! And for a dealer to say that this reflash will correct a stated problem when BRP is saying it is for something different is not right. It is them hopeing and praying that this will keep a customer from calling them for another week.I call bullchit if this is what is going on. Well.... Here is hopeing that this weekend will be different than the last three for my buddy with his detuning issue.Not meaning to ruffle any feathers here, I would just like to see a resolution.

 

[cadman22]

i rode with the handwarmers turned off today and it was a bit better but not running like it should

 

[takethebounce]

i rode with the handwarmers turned off today and it was a bit better but not running like it should

Its strange, we were seeing an overload on the voltage system, not an over voltage, with the overload it would draw power away from the injectors, voltage they need to run them at WOT.

We unhooked the headlight cluster, cleared the codes, ran it for two days, no codes, no hesitation at WOT. Mine had been previously updated.

Again this isn't something everyone is going to notice. On X's more so than anything else with the hi/low beam switch.

Sounds like there needs to be a small battery to compensate. I have a week of riding coming up, I'll find out if the issue comes back.

 

[snopro]

Its strange, we were seeing an overload on the voltage system, not an over voltage, with the overload it would draw power away from the injectors, voltage they need to run them at WOT.

We unhooked the headlight cluster, cleared the codes, ran it for two days, no codes, no hesitation at WOT. Mine had been previously updated.

Again this isn't something everyone is going to notice. On X's more so than anything else with the hi/low beam switch.

Sounds like there needs to be a small battery to compensate. I have a week of riding coming up, I'll find out if the issue comes back.

Funny you say that ttb. The problem is only happening on the manual start sleds the way I understand it.

 

[Modman]

Its strange, we were seeing an overload on the voltage system, not an over voltage, with the overload it would draw power away from the injectors, voltage they need to run them at WOT.

We unhooked the headlight cluster, cleared the codes, ran it for two days, no codes, no hesitation at WOT. Mine had been previously updated.

Again this isn't something everyone is going to notice. On X's more so than anything else with the hi/low beam switch.

Sounds like there needs to be a small battery to compensate. I have a week of riding coming up, I'll find out if the issue comes back.

What about a different voltage regulator? I would assume the system makes enough power at WOT to power the entire system because it also does at part throttle settings, but maybe the voltage regulator needs to be increased to allow more power into the system at WOT?

 

[takethebounce]

But the stator is only capable of producing so much voltage. What that number is I am not sure. For sure yes, it could be that simple, if the stator produces enough voltage, to increase the capacity of the regulator, as long as other systems are not affected by the extra voltage.

The injectors do not always require the same voltage from what I understand, the load increases when more throttle is applied. On the Buds, from what I can remember, we saw anywhere from 55-70 volts. (don't quote me on the numbers as I was trying to duplicate the under voltage scenario rather than watch the display)

By adding a battery there would always be a source to draw power from, rather than demanding more power from the stator.

 

[jaredszakacs]

He's got Micku's can on it so shouldn't it work without the Exhaust Temp Sensor? I'd pull the sensor first or call TSS. Snopro has the same pipe and no issues?

yeah he has the TSS can I'm talking cory micku at revolution performance group he is the big Bikemann guy

 

[Modman]

But the stator is only capable of producing so much voltage. What that number is I am not sure. For sure yes, it could be that simple, if the stator produces enough voltage, to increase the capacity of the regulator, as long as other systems are not affected by the extra voltage.

The injectors do not always require the same voltage from what I understand, the load increases when more throttle is applied. On the Buds, from what I can remember, we saw anywhere from 55-70 volts. (don't quote me on the numbers as I was trying to duplicate the under voltage scenario rather than watch the display)

By adding a battery there would always be a source to draw power from, rather than demanding more power from the stator.

Yeah I was thinking that Doo would have run the numbers and sized the stator accordingly to produce enough juice. They have the same sleds running out east and those guys have heated visors, GPS units etc all running off 12 V auxilary plugs-ins on the sled, so is the problem occuring out there too? Do they not hold it WO for as long - there are some pretty big lakes out there though - or are the sleds pretty well all electric start so the issue is few and far between?

I would assume too that the injectors are variable in power demand as they are effectively a voice coil, so more power needed to inject more fuel, that makes sense. and the battery makes sense as it would draw off when needed at WOT, what's puzzling is that the system makes enough power to charge the battery and power all the systems at mid throttle, but not enough at WO?

 

[takethebounce]

Yeah I was thinking that Doo would have run the numbers and sized the stator accordingly to produce enough juice. They have the same sleds running out east and those guys have heated visors, GPS units etc all running off 12 V auxilary plugs-ins on the sled, so is the problem occuring out there too? Do they not hold it WO for as long - there are some pretty big lakes out there though - or are the sleds pretty well all electric start so the issue is few and far between?

I would assume too that the injectors are variable in power demand as they are effectively a voice coil, so more power needed to inject more fuel, that makes sense. and the battery makes sense as it would draw off when needed at WOT, what's puzzling is that the system makes enough power to charge the battery and power all the systems at mid throttle, but not enough at WO?

yes correct, its a voice coil system. charging still only requires 14 or so volts, its not like the pump 30 volts into the battery. The biggest demand is on the injectors. Also, this seems to be more an issue on the '12.

For 2012 they did change the injectors, went to a larger injector to reduce the duty time. So now rather than open the injector longer to provide the same amount of fuel, the injector activates in shorter intervals to provide the same result. That duty time must be more demanding on the voltage system? Maybe, or I am completely out to lunch and over thinking.

 

[Teth-Air]

It was a little while ago I read on here that somebody had a bog with there summit, and it was after they put a can or a pipe and a can on. And they said that they pulled the exhaust temp sensor out and it ran good. Don't know if that will work but it's worth a try.

That was me, it ran much better with the probe out but it still would bog. It is in the shop now and if they don't find anything the clutching and can will go back to stock for the weekend. I will report back next week to let you guys know if anything has changed. It has steadily got worse to a point it gets me stuck coming out of creeks and other deep uphill spots. It only does not bog if accelerating slow or if the engine is cool. It smokes white(to much fuel) whenit bogs so I don't know if it is lack of voltage to the injectors.
It also bogs on the trail from an idle to full throttle. The bog/stutter is right when the RAVs open (about 7000 reading on the tach.)

 

[takethebounce]

Chris, did they tell you how much break in was left after the top end rebuild last time you had it in?

The bog on the trail from idle to full sounds like an over rev. These etecs are very picky about picking up RPM too quick. I think thats where the crank sensor they have on them comes into play...it doesn't monitor top crank spin so much as to retard it, but if the crank spins up too quick it will protect itself.

 

[maierch]

Chris, did they tell you how much break in was left after the top end rebuild last time you had it in?

The bog on the trail from idle to full sounds like an over rev. These etecs are very picky about picking up RPM too quick. I think thats where the crank sensor they have on them comes into play...it doesn't monitor top crank spin so much as to retard it, but if the crank spins up too quick it will protect itself.

I was talking to Cory Micku about the testing they're done with ETEC turbos and he says that's some of the problems with the turbos is the ECM is trying to protect itself from spinning up to quickly.

 

[dpolacik]

That is all! Shouldn't take long to work that out!

 

[cadman22]

i talked to a guy at brp today, he said he has had the same problems, told me that he changed weights and did the re-flash, said it runs great now. i have a video of the sled dieing that i will try and post.

 

[cadman22]

it sounds like im letting off the throttle but thats the sled doing that the whole time, i never let off the throttle once up that hill

 

[Modman]

i talked to a guy at brp today, he said he has had the same problems, told me that he changed weights and did the re-flash, said it runs great now. i have a video of the sled dieing that i will try and post.

Well i do have to say that this thread has impressed me that it has 4 pgs of good technical discussion without turning into a brand bashing contest like so many others. Finally, some real technical discussion on this forum!

Cadman I think there are 3 separate issues people are dealing with. sounds like a crank sensor issue, a voltage issue, or a can
(backpressue) issue. From what others have said:

Issue #1: Over revving down low trips the crank sensor and causes a hesitation
Issue #2: Low Voltage causing hesitation
Issue #3: Can causing ET sensor to trip? Maybe lack of back pressure with the can is a factor in the crank spin issue and the motor revs too quick (causing issue #1 in the process)?

I would try to eliminate these systematically, starting with the voltage issue as its very simple to disconnect headlight cluster and also running without your handwarmers had slightly improved the process previously. After that clicker down or add weight to the primary to see if its the crank spin. Then go to the can. Just my thoughts

 

[jaredszakacs]

ya like modman stated about time we get 4 pages of straight tech talk no bashing! Mine had the slightest of hesitations at low elevation and low rpm enough that it would almost put me into the bars. I changed my piping at the same time as my clutching and seems to have gotten rid of the bog on mine kind of wish i did it in stages to see what eliminated that bog but i was to excited cause i seen a shiny new pipe haha. ya i'd be pretty suspect of that crank sensor on yours. Mine sometimes when i put my highbeams on will make my gauges reset just like when i fire the sled up so there is something going on in the back of these switch clusters.

 

[XPQCPT]

The stator is the culprit.BRP is well aware of there crap stators. They are crossing their fingers hoping not to have to replace these under warranty. They should have a recall. I have a 2011 800 etec. The stator cooked under to much heat. Likely it wasa under warranty. but my $400 tow job wasn't.!!!!

 

[jay]

it sounds like im letting off the throttle but thats the sled doing that the whole time, i never let off the throttle once up that hill

yea i put a camera mount on my hood and climbed and it sounded like i was on and of the throttle the whole way up.
if i do any climbs that might wreck my sled or me i start to record so i have proof the bog did it for court.