kanedog
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I recently read about some 2018+ Arctic Cat Ascender primary clutch failures and it shook some clutching cobwebs off my brain.
Last year while checking the full shift out clutch action, I discovered the cover bushing prevents the clutch from fully closing at or near full shift out. The bushing stops the shift out and the force of the weights trying to close the clutch puts tremendous strain on the cover and moveable sheave. It is effectively pulling the cover and sheave apart with incredible force. Over time, the components may flex and weaken with each full shift out so the clutch may not fail immediately. At some point, the metal will be fatigued from flexing and eventually the cover and/or sheave would likely fail. At 8000rpm, a single failure point on the cover or sheave would likely result in a catastrophic failure. The speed in which pieces can be projected are quite high.
I would suspect the clutch failure to happen more in the flatland riding areas where the clutch is more likely to reach overdrive and full shift out. In the mountains and tree riding, the riding is slower and clutch loading is more. Most mountain riders won’t really see 1-1 ratio or overdrive as the sled is geared for a 72mph at 1-1. The majority of mountain riders rarely hit 65 mph. There may be less failures in the mountain regions.
One fellow sledder said that his friends that are doing 270’s and big air tricks are seeing some failures. They use wfo to help rotate the sled while in the air. When going wfo and no load on the clutches, the clutches go to full shift out. The cover and moveable sheave flex, causing metal fatigue and start down the road to future failure.
There is about a .060” gap when the Team clutch is fully shifted out. Normally, the two clutch sheaves butted against each other are what stops the shifting at full shift out. The load is taken by the beefy spider. But not on the Team clutch. The cover is stopping full shift out and taking all the load.
I’m surprised this got by the clutching dept. and quality control. But then Team isn’t exactly known for quality either.
Anyhoo, Textron I am available to develop a better clutching system with you. It can easily be done cheaper, better and simpler than the current system. The components already exist and Cat has an existing belt that will fit perfect. No new belt design required. There are just too many moving parts. The sloppy tolerances and poor designs combined is wearing the primary and secondary components too quickly. This affects performance, reliability and in in some cases, causes liability. Even if the tolerances were tightened up, the many moving pieces would likely bind. There is already is major binding in the secondary with the loose tolerances.
Craig Kennedy is welcome to R and D with me as we can tune up to July. I have built the combination that will put Cat in front for at least seven years with no motor modifications. Come and check it out. The Alpha clutching and a couple other things are leaving about 30% performance on the table.
I’m not being a smart ass but how many high paid engineers and multi million dollar suppliers missed the clutch cover issue? It’s kinda basic clutch knowledge is why I ask. How did this liability issue get past Team industries? This issue may get costly. Lowest bidder is not always best.
I’m in western Canada and I work for free. I don’t want any money or anything. I don’t have anything to sell and I have no alterior motive except to make Cat lead by a long shot. Let’s do this.
The above are my beliefs.
Notice #1 the edge of the metal is bent out from the cover being pulled in. #2 is the result after a number of flexing events. #3 although not shown, could be the departing of the cracked piece from the clutch at high speed.
]
Last year while checking the full shift out clutch action, I discovered the cover bushing prevents the clutch from fully closing at or near full shift out. The bushing stops the shift out and the force of the weights trying to close the clutch puts tremendous strain on the cover and moveable sheave. It is effectively pulling the cover and sheave apart with incredible force. Over time, the components may flex and weaken with each full shift out so the clutch may not fail immediately. At some point, the metal will be fatigued from flexing and eventually the cover and/or sheave would likely fail. At 8000rpm, a single failure point on the cover or sheave would likely result in a catastrophic failure. The speed in which pieces can be projected are quite high.
I would suspect the clutch failure to happen more in the flatland riding areas where the clutch is more likely to reach overdrive and full shift out. In the mountains and tree riding, the riding is slower and clutch loading is more. Most mountain riders won’t really see 1-1 ratio or overdrive as the sled is geared for a 72mph at 1-1. The majority of mountain riders rarely hit 65 mph. There may be less failures in the mountain regions.
One fellow sledder said that his friends that are doing 270’s and big air tricks are seeing some failures. They use wfo to help rotate the sled while in the air. When going wfo and no load on the clutches, the clutches go to full shift out. The cover and moveable sheave flex, causing metal fatigue and start down the road to future failure.
There is about a .060” gap when the Team clutch is fully shifted out. Normally, the two clutch sheaves butted against each other are what stops the shifting at full shift out. The load is taken by the beefy spider. But not on the Team clutch. The cover is stopping full shift out and taking all the load.
I’m surprised this got by the clutching dept. and quality control. But then Team isn’t exactly known for quality either.
Anyhoo, Textron I am available to develop a better clutching system with you. It can easily be done cheaper, better and simpler than the current system. The components already exist and Cat has an existing belt that will fit perfect. No new belt design required. There are just too many moving parts. The sloppy tolerances and poor designs combined is wearing the primary and secondary components too quickly. This affects performance, reliability and in in some cases, causes liability. Even if the tolerances were tightened up, the many moving pieces would likely bind. There is already is major binding in the secondary with the loose tolerances.
Craig Kennedy is welcome to R and D with me as we can tune up to July. I have built the combination that will put Cat in front for at least seven years with no motor modifications. Come and check it out. The Alpha clutching and a couple other things are leaving about 30% performance on the table.
I’m not being a smart ass but how many high paid engineers and multi million dollar suppliers missed the clutch cover issue? It’s kinda basic clutch knowledge is why I ask. How did this liability issue get past Team industries? This issue may get costly. Lowest bidder is not always best.
I’m in western Canada and I work for free. I don’t want any money or anything. I don’t have anything to sell and I have no alterior motive except to make Cat lead by a long shot. Let’s do this.
The above are my beliefs.
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