2010 plumit 800r problems

[Warhawk]

well sled has 2500 miles and already crank problems. Can't figure out why BRP keeps making these things. Well i guees thats why they still make them good for the parts business.

anyways pulled this thing apart to make sure all was good as i was going to repack the crank bearings. once it was apart it was obvious to see the problem. The o so famous grease was baked out of the pto side bearings and the inner bearing that rides up against the labrinyth seal is f*%Ked. crank costs 2200.00

be careful with this engine guys i talked to the makers of isoflex and a teck guy for 45 min and explained the grease problem. he said that what is happening is the grease has gone past it's max temp. as a result the oil that is in the grease evaporates and all you are left with is the thickening agent. and this don't lube sh*T

The problem is BRP is passing the buck on us customers. these new XP chassis sleds have no clutch/ alignment adjustments. mine is out by 2 mm ( I will be slopping out the motor mounts to fix this.) Take this and then add very little air flow because the engines are so enclosed and the slower speeds of mountian riding and constant upshift/backshift and you end up with HUGE HEAT PROBLEMS:realmad:

as a result is is pretty easy to see how the grease can exceed it's max temp of 120Celcius.


This WAS my first try at a BRP product and all i can say is this is BULL S#!t.

I'm glad i still have my 08 M8 as it has never given me a problem. not sure i will be keeping this BRP thing as I want to have a sled that i can build confidence in and not have to worry about crank problems or if it is going to get me home.


Thanks BRP for reasuring me that your product is crap .

Sorry Arctic cat i made a mistake please forgive me

 

[teeroy]

no warranty? mine's an 08, with 2500+ hard miles on it without a whimper....no holes cut anywhere for venting, original clutch bushings and rollers still. why would it cost you a dime if it's a 2010?

 

[imdoo'n]

bought sled in usa, take it south of border and get the warranty to fi should be good till dec of 2010, someone did not check the grease. easy on clutch side mag side you may have to get crafty. i guess you did not ride the sled before purchase. you live real close to northern states take it to a dealer there, or put back together and get rid of.

 

[Warhawk]

hopefully it won't but if you need to replace it it would. That being said. if every 2500 miles i am looking at putting a crank in and warranty is only a couple years. pretty soon warranty is not around and you still have a sled that is a ? mark. doesn't really build any confidence in it does it?

really if a product was built properly you as a customer would be very happy to never have to take you sled in for warranty. (example my08 m8 has 3300miles and never touched) If you had a car that you had to take into the dealer to get a engine rebuilt every 2500 miles would you still buy one? would you still own one??:d but its under warranty ? doesn't work for me.
you can buy a car brand new for less than the cost of this sled and it will last. Yes i know the difference is the engines trust me i have been in this trade for 15 years and i have seen alot of failures in boats,snowmobiles,motorcycles,atv's BRP has a problem that they have been masking for years. I guess i'm just one more sucker that thought they fixed things in the last couple. and i guess i was wrong.

 

[teeroy]

hopefully it won't but if you need to replace it it would. That being said. if every 2500 miles i am looking at putting a crank in and warranty is only a couple years. pretty soon warranty is not around and you still have a sled that is a ? mark. doesn't really build any confidence in it does it?

really if a product was built properly you as a customer would be very happy to never have to take you sled in for warranty. (example my08 m8 has 3300miles and never touched) If you had a car that you had to take into the dealer to get a engine rebuilt every 2500 miles would you still buy one? would you still own one??:d but its under warranty ? doesn't work for me.
you can buy a car brand new for less than the cost of this sled and it will last. Yes i know the difference is the engines trust me i have been in this trade for 15 years and i have seen alot of failures in boats,snowmobiles,motorcycles,atv's BRP has a problem that they have been masking for years. I guess i'm just one more sucker that thought they fixed things in the last couple. and i guess i was wrong.

you have stated it is a rental, how do you know how it was treated before you got it? in essence, you are bitching about a future problem that may never occur off warranty. do you want to get run over on the road? of course not....but you still cross the street...get your sled fixed on warranty then sell it if you are worried.....problem solved.

 

[Warhawk]

bought sled in usa, take it south of border and get the warranty to fi should be good till dec of 2010, someone did not check the grease. easy on clutch side mag side you may have to get crafty. i guess you did not ride the sled before purchase. you live real close to northern states take it to a dealer there, or put back together and get rid of.

Yes it is from US. How are you to check the grease. Where in the manual/owners manual/service manual does it tell you to check the GREASE 2010 sled does not have a nipple like older ones. When is the grease to be checked? How? grease on mag side was perfect. nice and shinney the way it is suppose to look. Yes sled was rode for 3 hours before purchase. woked fine. no real noise. this was a complete tear down to do maintenence and this is what i found

would love to know how you put grease in the pto side bearings with the engine in the sled. You also have to pressure test the engine after to make sure you don't have a leak. air leak = a squeek

 

[Modman]

This guy knows what he is talking about - trust me. I would send an engine to him to have it rebuilt.

ISOFlex Grease was one of the top 10 dumbest things ever for a motor, BRP can't figure it out, some monkey could though IMO. Who puts grease inside a motor with no option to re-grease or inspect without tearing the whole motor down? Designed to be serviced by BRP - as stated, that's the best way to make money....pass the responsibilities onto the customer. Good for about 2500 miles - on an average rider sled that is just about the time the warranty runs out.......hmmmmmmmm

We can land a man on the moon but can't make a 2 stroke motor last 2500 miles?

Pretty sad.

Warhawk, now that the cases are apart, I would drill and tap a grease fittings in there somewhere to lube the bearings on both ends of the crank. Take the outer seals out of the bearings and then you can lube right from the ends of the case. Couple shots every now and then should do it. There's some guys that sell the ISOflex out of Manitoba, way cheaper than for what Doo sells it - its the same stuff too. Let me know if you need the contact.

Back in the old days, the outer bearings were lubed by this stuff called "oil".......

 

[Warhawk]

you have stated it is a rental, how do you know how it was treated before you got it? Its a sled as far as treated a rental is very similar to your own. do you hold the throttle wide openYES do you check the oil YES do you fix damage from tree YES do you replace belt when it goes out after 400 miles YES what difference is there not much. If its a rental are you going to take it to the top and then jump it off a 100ft jump Probably not because you are going to have to pay for it. If its your own sled you would probably be more willing to do this. Maybe this is just me.in essence, you are bitching about a future problem that may never occur off warranty. As far as this never happening again give me a break go look at the problems the 800 has had. Yes if you do a bunch of things to make the clutches run cooler (vents etc) they help ALOT but im am saying that BRP has used us as the pig for years.. do you want to get run over on the road? of course not....but you still cross the street...get your sled fixed on warranty then sell it if you are worried.....problem solved.

yes you are probably right this will probably be the end result.

 

[Warhawk]

This guy knows what he is talking about - trust me. I would send an engine to him to have it rebuilt.

ISOFlex Grease was one of the top 10 dumbest things ever for a motor, BRP can't figure it out, some monkey could though IMO. Who puts grease inside a motor with no option to re-grease or inspect without tearing the whole motor down? Designed to be serviced by BRP - as stated, that's the best way to make money....pass the responsibilities onto the customer. Good for about 2500 miles - on an average rider sled that is just about the time the warranty runs out.......hmmmmmmmm

We can land a man on the moon but can't make a 2 stroke motor last 2500 miles?

Pretty sad.

Warhawk, now that the cases are apart, I would drill and tap a grease fittings in there somewhere to lube the bearings on both ends of the crank. Take the outer seals out of the bearings and then you can lube right from the ends of the case. Couple shots every now and then should do it. There's some guys that sell the ISOflex out of Manitoba, way cheaper than for what Doo sells it - its the same stuff too. Let me know if you need the contact. yes please. here at work we have been buying it from BRP and my bum is sore. We have 8 BRP units here that we tear down every year at least once. Does he carry the pail? or the 400Gram tubes?

Back in the old days, the outer bearings were lubed by this stuff called "oil".......

thanks Modman
i guess some people just don't get the real problem with this engine. I will look into fitting it with some sort of fitting. If i keep it.

 

[Modman]

thanks Modman
i guess some people just don't get the real problem with this engine. I will look into fitting it with some sort of fitting. If i keep it.

Had to go back to the emails:

Oilmart out of Winnipeg
Oil Mart

It's listed under Greases: Specialty Greases: then click on "more info" by Kluber Specialty Greases (2nd one down) and it's there near the bottom in the section titled "high speed greases".

Kluber makes the actual ISOFlex grease, oilmart distributes it. I know they sell it in 50 gr tubes, not sure if you can buy a pail of it or what other packaging it comes in. not sure about prices other than the 50 gr tubes for $26 (Doo price on the same 50 gr tube is $67!!!!!!~cough choke~!!!), we just get it in the 50 gr tubes because that is about twice what you need for one motor so you can apply it very liberally, and then one tube = one motor.

Hope that helps.

 

[teeroy]

Had to go back to the emails:

Oilmart out of Winnipeg
Oil Mart

It's listed under Greases: Specialty Greases: then click on "more info" by Kluber Specialty Greases (2nd one down) and it's there near the bottom in the section titled "high speed greases".

Kluber makes the actual ISOFlex grease, oilmart distributes it. I know they sell it in 50 gr tubes, not sure if you can buy a pail of it or what other packaging it comes in. not sure about prices other than the 50 gr tubes for $26 (Doo price on the same 50 gr tube is $67!!!!!!~cough choke~!!!), we just get it in the 50 gr tubes because that is about twice what you need for one motor so you can apply it very liberally, and then one tube = one motor.

Hope that helps.

you can buy it direct from kluber, about 20 bucks a tube.

on the series 3 you could inject it into the mag side thru the upper stator bolt, not sure if the 800R has the same journal milled into the case or not. will find out this summer....

pto side is easy to get isoflex into, just remove the plate and inject under the seal, I just use a thin feeler guage to let any air/excess grease out. I use a syringe as to not pop the inner seal by overpressuring it.

 

[teeroy]

dootalk has a wealth of information on the subject. worth a read if you're into 'Doos

 

[Warhawk]

you can buy it direct from kluber, about 20 bucks a tube. thanks i will look at this

on the series 3 you could inject it into the mag side thru the upper stator bolt, not sure if the 800R has the same journal milled into the case or not. Yes the holes are completely open to the bearing. i was thinking of doing it this way but just felt that i wanted to know what kind of shap the motor was in internally. this is why i pulled it downwill find out this summer....

pto side is easy to get isoflex into, just remove the plate and inject under the seal, I just use a thin feeler guage to let any air/excess grease out. I use a syringe as to not pop the inner seal by overpressuring it.

If i keep this sled i willl look at doing this once a year. The only problem with greasing these without taking them apart is that you risk putting to much in. This is okay when cold but when hot grease will expand and can push out on internal seal possibly causing failure. To much grease can also cause a bearing to retain heat as the grease becomes a source to retain the heat. This also only greases the bearing on the outside not the one on the inside that has a seal on. On the pto side there are 2 bearings.

as a heads up to anybody riding one of these. if your sparkplug /pistion wash has a yellowish calf scoures look to it you are having a seal leak internally from the isoflex into the cylinder. This is something that we see on our shop units all the time. My recomendattion to you is get home and pull it down before it leaves you stranded and costs you a bunch more money.

 

[imdoo'n]

teeroy you are right on the money, take the tra primary off, remove the gold colour plate, either remove seal or squirt a cc or 2 under the seal. heat melts the grease and it also will exit with a wobbly clutch. you should check for grease film on rear of primary clutch every time you clean clutch, or open side cover. pull clutch if you see grease or oil. yes PIA. you can also have oil holes drilled into the case halves, if or when you take motor apart
brp put grease in bearings to reduce emissions = less oil burnt.
what is wrong with the labrynth seal, broke, wore out, burnt? they naturally look screwed just sitting there, don't actually seal just slow flow between cylinders. did the shop look at it, and what is there opinion. i'm just guessing at this point.
if you have torn motor down already, may as well build it right, new pistons and rings, seals, any bearing that looks marginal.

 

[Modman]

This also only greases the bearing on the outside not the one on the inside that has a seal on. On the pto side there are 2 bearings.

I thought the inside one was lubed from the inside by the oil injection? Seal open to the crankcase side? No?

I know the earlier motors in some of the ZX and Rev's you cannot lube through the stator bolts and there is no cover on the PTO side, re-lubing requires a full teardown. I know this for a fact. Don't ask.

 

[imdoo'n]

they changed all that in 07. usually the mag side is ok but the clutch side leaks out.

 

[Warhawk]

teeroy you are right on the money, take the tra primary off, remove the gold colour plate, either remove seal or squirt a cc or 2 under the seal. heat melts the grease and it also will exit with a wobbly clutch. you should check for grease film on rear of primary clutch every time you clean clutch, or open side cover. pull clutch if you see grease or oil. yes PIA.Larry did you find the servicing for grease intervals in the manual yet??? you can also have oil holes drilled into the case halves, I am looking at doing this if or when you take motor apart
brp put grease in bearings to reduce emissions = less oil burnt. this is true
what is wrong with the labrynth seal, broke, wore out, burnt? Seals garder spring is torn up because inside bearing has gone out. they naturally look screwed just sitting there, don't actually seal just slow flow between cylinders. This is false The doos have been running a full double lipped seal for years this is not like a normal Labrinyth seal. It is designed to completely seal each combustion chamber. It has to as the doo's have a oil bath worm gear system that runs the h2o pump as well as the oil pump did the shop look at it, and what is there opinion.(shop doesn't have to look at it as i work on this stuff all the time. trust me it's F$%ked)))) i'm just guessing at this point.
if you have torn motor down already, may as well build it right, new pistons and rings, seals, any bearing that looks marginal.

yes it is getting everything. this is the only way i do things. THE RIGHT WAY

 

[Warhawk]

I thought the inside one was lubed from the inside by the oil injection? Yes it appears that is the case in most of the older ones. This is my first 010 and it has a seal on both sides Seal open to the crankcase side? No?

I know the earlier motors in some of the ZX and Rev's you cannot lube through the stator bolts and there is no cover on the PTO side, re-lubing requires a full teardown. I know this for a fact. Don't ask.

cross my fingers that this isn't going to cost to much

 

[imdoo'n]

maybe have to open the warchest:d. what was wrong with the labarynth seal.
maybe time to talk to rkteck and at least get the drop in kit =15 to 20 hp. with not much effort.

had a brain wave, let the modman performance shop do an overhaul, he likes fooling with this kind of stuff. maybe a little modman massage.

 

[Warhawk]

LOL modman he knows how to make them run

as far as putting more power into this. Why they don't stay together as it is .:d