skegpro
Active VIP Member
Little juxtaposition for yeah teach, thought you might appreciate the irony.
Trail question
- Thread starter Marcpioneer1000
- Start date
xpbrian
Member
Back near the beginning of all the name calling I thought the weight limit stated 430 kg.that oughta mete out some Arctic Cats...
- Moderator
- #123
skegpro
Active VIP Member
Uh oh, another snow vechile......
Now this gets confusing. Lol
http://sleddermag.com/arctic-cat-svx-450/
Now this gets confusing. Lol
http://sleddermag.com/arctic-cat-svx-450/
moyiesledhead
Active VIP Member
One of those guys is a founding member of the Cranbrook Club and helped build that cabin FFS! He has every right to be there! I'd rather use bullets on the throttle jockey's on sleds that can't seem to figure out how to accomplish forward motion without leaving a bomb crater in the middle of the frickin' trail! Tracked ATV's do far less trail damage than sleds.
Wheels are a different story. Leave them at home.
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Think he was being sarcastic.
moyiesledhead
Active VIP Member
Doesn't change my point.
skegpro
Active VIP Member
Now this just makes sense................
Wow! Game changer!!!!
skegpro
Active VIP Member
Golden
skegpro
Active VIP Member
Outta the US of A
There’s More Than One Way to Ride Our Trails
This meager snow year has gotten many of us thinking about alternate means of enjoying our winter snow trails and I have seen quite a bit of chatter on various club’s Facebook pages about what is legal and what is not legal when it comes to the use of roads and trails on our public lands. The more comments that I read, the more confused I got and this led me to contact the Deschutes National Forest with a list of questions for clarification. After getting bounced around like a hot potato, my list of questions landed on the desk of Marv Lang with the Bend-Fort Rock Ranger District of the Deschutes National Forest. Now, mind you, the Deschutes National Forest does not answer for all National Forest Ranger Districts but it does interpret and enforce these rules based upon national guide lines set by the United States Forest Service. With this in mind, the answers to these questions should be interpreted and enforced very close to the same in all National Forest Ranger Districts.
Let’s start with some explanations of a few of the terms and acronyms that will be used in the Q&A:
• Class I = ATV (quad) wheeled vehicle under 50 inches wide
• Class II = Jeeps
• Class III = motorcycles
• Class IV = utv or side by side’s
• Snowmobile = (over the snow vehicle; steered with a ski(s) and powered with a track.
• MVUM = Motor Vehicle Use Map or MVU Map
• Seasonal Designation = restrictions that limit use during certain seasons
• Winter Trail = a designated winter trail as shown on NFS winter trail maps … not typically shown on MVU maps unless it coincides with an NFS road, in which case it is shown as having a seasonal designation.
• Highway Legal Vehicle = licensed and titled by State law for use on roads and highways
Q: In general, what are the rules for operating ATV’s and side-by-side vehicles on snowmobile trails?
A: On groomed snowmobile trails on the Deschutes National Forest, Class I’s (with tires) and snowmobiles are allowed, with the exception of trails in Newberry National Volcanic Monument, where Class I’s are not allowed at anytime. So, in general, wheeled Class I’s are allowed and snowmobiles are allowed but class I’s with tracks and Class IV’s are not allowed as they become Class II’s (jeeps) by definition which are not allowed. The same rule would apply to any snowcat. From a safety point, they are wide and take up a lot of trail and so pose a hazard with snowmobilers who are usually moving at a higher rate of speed. A tracked machine can be permitted with a special use permit, but that is usually part of a commercial venture of some sort.
Q: Can a tracked ATV be registered as a snowmobile, like a dirt bike can, that would make it legal on all snowmobile trails?
A: When you put tracks on a Class I it exceeds the 50 inch limit and by Oregon state code, becomes a Class II by definition, which are not allowed on snowmobile trails. Class IV’s with or without tracks (usually) exceed the width limit as well and become a Class II by definition.
Q: If a person was to come up with a track system for an ATV that is 50" wide, or less, would it be legal on groomed snowmobile trails?
A: No, because the definition of a Class I vehicle is a wheeled vehicle. Only Class I and snowmobiles are allowed on groomed snowmobile trails and putting tracks on a Class I vehicle kicks it out of that category, whether under 50 inches or not.
Q: Is a Class IV vehicle (side-by-side), that is less than 50" wide (tracked or wheeled), allowed on groomed snowmobile trail?
A: No, because by definition it is a Class IV and only Class I’s and snowmobiles are allowed.
Q: Where can Class I and Class IV vehicles (ATV’s and side-by-sides), outfitted with tracks, legally operate in winter?
A: Any route shown as open to all vehicles on the Motor Vehicle Use Maps which does not have a winter seasonal restriction or is a designated winter trail. Not all designated “winter trails” are shown on the MVU maps but this information is available from the local Ranger District office and is generally published on winter trail and snowmobile maps.
Q: Are the roads, with the seasonal "Road Closed" signs, only closed to Class II vehicles?
A: These roads are closed to all vehicles except Class I and snowmobiles as they either are, or turn into, winter trails.
Q: Are these seasonal closures listed on the MVU maps?
A: Yes, these roads are indicated on the MVU Maps with “route numbers” and have seasonal designations as per the map legend.
Q: Many roads are open to winter use by tracked vehicles but all the roads to and from the snow parks, leading to the open roads, are usually either groomed snowmobile trails or have Seasonal Designations. How does one park, unload and get to the open roads?
A: I don’t really have a good answer, except parking in a legal area of the road adjacent to an open road. Motor vehicles may be parked within one vehicle length from the edge of the road surface when it is safe to do so without causing damage to NFS resources, unless prohibited by a State law.
Q: Are snow conditions ever a determining factor in what is allowed and what isn't allowed, when it comes to NFS road and trail use?
A: No, the seasonal restrictions generally apply from December 1st to March 31st.
Q: Are fat tired mountain bikes allowed on groomed snowmobile trails?
A: Yes, they are allowed everywhere except designated Wilderness, unless it is an area closure to bikes.
It is always the responsibility of the user to know if, and when, the road he/she is using is open for the vehicle that he/she is operating and all regulations apply regardless of the presence or absence of signs. MVU maps are available, free of charge, at ranger district offices. They are also available online and downloadable in a file for use with Avenza Maps.
A big “Thank You” goes out to Marv Lang, with the Deschutes National Forest, for putting his foot in his mouth and answering these questions for us … and a big reminder goes out to you to not shoot the messenger.
Until next time, keep the track side down and remember … friends don’t let friends ride alone! (even on ATV’s)
Submitted by: Jack Reynolds, La Pine Lodgepole Dodgers
There’s More Than One Way to Ride Our Trails
This meager snow year has gotten many of us thinking about alternate means of enjoying our winter snow trails and I have seen quite a bit of chatter on various club’s Facebook pages about what is legal and what is not legal when it comes to the use of roads and trails on our public lands. The more comments that I read, the more confused I got and this led me to contact the Deschutes National Forest with a list of questions for clarification. After getting bounced around like a hot potato, my list of questions landed on the desk of Marv Lang with the Bend-Fort Rock Ranger District of the Deschutes National Forest. Now, mind you, the Deschutes National Forest does not answer for all National Forest Ranger Districts but it does interpret and enforce these rules based upon national guide lines set by the United States Forest Service. With this in mind, the answers to these questions should be interpreted and enforced very close to the same in all National Forest Ranger Districts.
Let’s start with some explanations of a few of the terms and acronyms that will be used in the Q&A:
• Class I = ATV (quad) wheeled vehicle under 50 inches wide
• Class II = Jeeps
• Class III = motorcycles
• Class IV = utv or side by side’s
• Snowmobile = (over the snow vehicle; steered with a ski(s) and powered with a track.
• MVUM = Motor Vehicle Use Map or MVU Map
• Seasonal Designation = restrictions that limit use during certain seasons
• Winter Trail = a designated winter trail as shown on NFS winter trail maps … not typically shown on MVU maps unless it coincides with an NFS road, in which case it is shown as having a seasonal designation.
• Highway Legal Vehicle = licensed and titled by State law for use on roads and highways
Q: In general, what are the rules for operating ATV’s and side-by-side vehicles on snowmobile trails?
A: On groomed snowmobile trails on the Deschutes National Forest, Class I’s (with tires) and snowmobiles are allowed, with the exception of trails in Newberry National Volcanic Monument, where Class I’s are not allowed at anytime. So, in general, wheeled Class I’s are allowed and snowmobiles are allowed but class I’s with tracks and Class IV’s are not allowed as they become Class II’s (jeeps) by definition which are not allowed. The same rule would apply to any snowcat. From a safety point, they are wide and take up a lot of trail and so pose a hazard with snowmobilers who are usually moving at a higher rate of speed. A tracked machine can be permitted with a special use permit, but that is usually part of a commercial venture of some sort.
Q: Can a tracked ATV be registered as a snowmobile, like a dirt bike can, that would make it legal on all snowmobile trails?
A: When you put tracks on a Class I it exceeds the 50 inch limit and by Oregon state code, becomes a Class II by definition, which are not allowed on snowmobile trails. Class IV’s with or without tracks (usually) exceed the width limit as well and become a Class II by definition.
Q: If a person was to come up with a track system for an ATV that is 50" wide, or less, would it be legal on groomed snowmobile trails?
A: No, because the definition of a Class I vehicle is a wheeled vehicle. Only Class I and snowmobiles are allowed on groomed snowmobile trails and putting tracks on a Class I vehicle kicks it out of that category, whether under 50 inches or not.
Q: Is a Class IV vehicle (side-by-side), that is less than 50" wide (tracked or wheeled), allowed on groomed snowmobile trail?
A: No, because by definition it is a Class IV and only Class I’s and snowmobiles are allowed.
Q: Where can Class I and Class IV vehicles (ATV’s and side-by-sides), outfitted with tracks, legally operate in winter?
A: Any route shown as open to all vehicles on the Motor Vehicle Use Maps which does not have a winter seasonal restriction or is a designated winter trail. Not all designated “winter trails” are shown on the MVU maps but this information is available from the local Ranger District office and is generally published on winter trail and snowmobile maps.
Q: Are the roads, with the seasonal "Road Closed" signs, only closed to Class II vehicles?
A: These roads are closed to all vehicles except Class I and snowmobiles as they either are, or turn into, winter trails.
Q: Are these seasonal closures listed on the MVU maps?
A: Yes, these roads are indicated on the MVU Maps with “route numbers” and have seasonal designations as per the map legend.
Q: Many roads are open to winter use by tracked vehicles but all the roads to and from the snow parks, leading to the open roads, are usually either groomed snowmobile trails or have Seasonal Designations. How does one park, unload and get to the open roads?
A: I don’t really have a good answer, except parking in a legal area of the road adjacent to an open road. Motor vehicles may be parked within one vehicle length from the edge of the road surface when it is safe to do so without causing damage to NFS resources, unless prohibited by a State law.
Q: Are snow conditions ever a determining factor in what is allowed and what isn't allowed, when it comes to NFS road and trail use?
A: No, the seasonal restrictions generally apply from December 1st to March 31st.
Q: Are fat tired mountain bikes allowed on groomed snowmobile trails?
A: Yes, they are allowed everywhere except designated Wilderness, unless it is an area closure to bikes.
It is always the responsibility of the user to know if, and when, the road he/she is using is open for the vehicle that he/she is operating and all regulations apply regardless of the presence or absence of signs. MVU maps are available, free of charge, at ranger district offices. They are also available online and downloadable in a file for use with Avenza Maps.
A big “Thank You” goes out to Marv Lang, with the Deschutes National Forest, for putting his foot in his mouth and answering these questions for us … and a big reminder goes out to you to not shoot the messenger.
Until next time, keep the track side down and remember … friends don’t let friends ride alone! (even on ATV’s)
Submitted by: Jack Reynolds, La Pine Lodgepole Dodgers
hogwild
Active member
I know this is old but wondering if there has been any rule changes at cateract in regard to atv with tracks,seems common sence should sooner or later allow atv and sxs with tracks to also use trails and maybe be an asset to the system aswell. I went to sicamouse a couple yrs back with my tracked atv and didn’t have any issues with sledders we were all out there for the same reason.i Would love to go to cateract and possibly be an asset to the club but if this crazy rule still exists I guess they can keep there area until i deside I would like to challenge the rule in court and go anyway
moyiesledhead
Active VIP Member
Check with the Recreation Officer at Sites and Trails BC. I believe that area's in the Cranbrook district. 250 420-6382 I doubt their management agreement gives them the legal right to stop you. Any crown land management agreement I've read specifically states the agreement does not provide exclusive access.
Edit: Just noticed this is Cataract. For some reason my old brain read Corbin. So this will be useful info for BC guys being told they can't take their tracked ATV's on snowmobile trail systems. Sorry for my confusion.
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papajake
Active VIP Member
The area you are talking about is in southern Alberta by Longview and no motorized vehicles are allowed only snowmobiles in the winter there is parking for vehicles to unload sleds and a small camping area for summer random camping
retiredpop
Active VIP Member
Your best bet to get this answered is to call George Jackson (Calgary Snowmobile Club trails director) at (403) 999 - 9550. I know the GOA sets the rules for this area by it's PLUZ. According to the following info you would not be legal to ride there.
Cataract Creek Snow Vehicle PLUZ
hogwild
Active member
I actually have no desire to go ride were i an not welcome. If the calgary snowmobile club ever gets there head out of ass i would be happy to be an asset to the club. For now they can shove cateract rite up there ass. Snow bikes are no different than a quad with tracks. They are not registered as a snow mobile but they are aloud
. Just makes zero sense to me. So for now i will spend my time and money elsewherepapajake
Active VIP Member
the Calgary snowmobile club does not make the rules the government does they use the trail system with the governments approval hogwild with an additude like yours no one would want you on their trails
hogwild
Active member
Also i would like to bet the calgary club has alot to do with the decision making
papajake
Active VIP Member
The only thing the club makes for discussion is how to raise money for equipment and to maintain the trails having worked with clubs myself money is hard to find and finding volunteers to help is next to impossible
MP Kid
Active VIP Member
I’ll take that bet….
Clearly, you have little experience in the area of Motorsports users working with the government on land use issues.
