Stator / Flywheel Puller?

[Shibby!]

Anybody have one they want to sell, or rent out?

I figure if I'm going to tear this damn engine down it's going right down to inspect the crank.

Hoping somebody has the BRP tool I can rent for awhile.

Thanks,
Q

 

[revbyu]

I just use a steering wheel puller / just need the bolts - I think there 8 mm x 1.25

 

[Shibby!]

I just use a steering wheel puller / just need the bolts - I think there 8 mm x 1.25

People talk about keeping the crank in phase so the timing is right...

I'll be honest and say this is my first bottom end tear down so I'm not familiar with the process. Just starting to read into it.

What do you think?

 

[Polarblu]

People talk about keeping the crank in phase so the timing is right...

I'll be honest and say this is my first bottom end tear down so I'm not familiar with the process. Just starting to read into it.

What do you think?

Crank phase is done in the machine shop. You cant screw this up at home. The crankshaft is actually 3-7 pieces that are pressed together.
Another term you will run into is "trued and welded" this is when the machinist has the phases perfect he/she (for the hot chic at mongoose) tack welds the pieces together.
The crank timing is done by your stator. When you pull the flywheel (what you need a puller for) you will see the stator. Most of these only go in one way, some are sloted do you can play, i dont know about BRP.

 

[Shibby!]

Crank phase is done in the machine shop. You cant screw this up at home. The crankshaft is actually 3-7 pieces that are pressed together.
Another term you will run into is "trued and welded" this is when the machinist has the phases perfect he/she (for the hot chic at mongoose) tack welds the pieces together.
The crank timing is done by your stator. When you pull the flywheel (what you need a puller for) you will see the stator. Most of these only go in one way, some are sloted do you can play, i dont know about BRP.

I'll read the manual.

The thing I don't quite understand is there is a point when the computer knows the rotation of the crank and fires the spark, etc. Somewhere along the line the pick-up must match I would think. like you said, not sure if that's a bolt on thing, or a setting.

The tool BRP sells stops the crank from rotating when taking off the flywheel bolt. That might be all it is. An impact might help with that. I think it's 94ft-lbs torque.

 

[Murminator]

I bought 1 but i'm in Ed looks like bhowes has one try pming him

https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f14/want-borrow-25523.html

 

[Polarblu]

I'll read the manual.

The thing I don't quite understand is there is a point when the computer knows the rotation of the crank and fires the spark, etc. Somewhere along the line the pick-up must match I would think. like you said, not sure if that's a bolt on thing, or a setting.

The tool BRP sells stops the crank from rotating when taking off the flywheel bolt. That might be all it is. An impact might help with that. I think it's 94ft-lbs torque.[/QUO

Just pull the fly wheel, it all makes sense after that. You do not need any BRP special tools, the timing is controlled by a computer and a wood-ruff key. Niether of these can be screwed up by taking it apart. Once you have the flywheel off you will see all the little coils inside and 1 off to the side the 1 by its self sends the signal to the computer DPM. The fly wheel is full of magnets which make the power for your machine.

 

[nielsy]

shibby come and see me ill pull it off for you i'm in the nortwest of town

 

[Shibby!]

shibby come and see me ill pull it off for you i'm in the nortwest of town

Thanks Nielsy!

I have to get the motor out first. It's just the bottom end in there now with pistons on the rods yet. I think I have to disconnect the pull start, oil injection, and bottom coolant hose and it "should" come out. I think there is a crank vent line too. I also need to take the primary clutch off.

I wasn't expecting this when I started so I have to do some desperately required garage cleaning before taking this rebuild on. I hope to be more actively doing this once it warms up a bit. I haven't got my heater in the garage yet so it's a bit chilly.

I'll let you know when I have it out. Bhowles graciously offered to borrow his tool to me as well so I'll consider which path I go down when I get the bottom end out. Some advice on the crank wouldn't be bad. I'm thinking repacking the bearings with ISOFLEX while I'm in there. I'll need to pick that up and gasket sealer (yamabond).

I won't be getting too much use out of the sled this year, so not looking to sink a tone of money into it. If the seals and bearings look good, I'll likely repack and re-install with a fresh top end. Next year might be a reman crank. If I happen to use it more then a few times this year I will keep an eye on it by pressure checking the engine.

 

[Modman]

You CAN screw up the crank phase timing by using a standard automotive style puller (three bolts that thread into the puller and then a "push" bolt that threads through the center and pushes on the end of the crank). If you are holding the clutch side with a holder and then putting big torque on the magneto side end, you can twist the crank out of phase from one side of the engine to the other (you twist the crank between the 2 rod connections in the center of the engine). It can and has been done.

Also, the stator is very close behind the magneto and if you thread the puller bolts into the magneto to far, you can damage the stator coating and wiring, which is not cheap to fix.

The BRP puller threads into the magneto in the center and then braces against the side of the crankcase through the hole it's designed to fit in, so that there is no torsional load on the crank at all. The "push" bolt then pushes against the mag side end of the crank, all on the mag side of the engine.

I have taken many magneto's off the improper way by holding the clutch, with no bad experiences, but if you have access to the proper puller, by all means use it. The other way just presents a risk that should be avoided if possible.

The mag is keyed onto the crank, only goes on one way. It passes the firing sensor that triggers the signal and the stator, which is all stationary. The keyway is aligned when the crank is assembled, if they screwed it up, then the timing will be out, but if you are not pulling the crank apart then it's not going to change.

The stator will only bolt in one way also with 3 bolts, and if you don't have it properly aligned when you put it back in, it won't go in because the wires will be coming off it at the wrong spot, it's pretty hard to screw up when bolting back in.

 

[cedric]

When you reinstall the stator plate, put lots of loc tite on the bolts to ensure they are not a source of an air leak, as the holes go right though into the bottom end, or at least they did on my ZX 700, I'm guessing the 800 HO is the same.

I have a clutch puller if you need it.

 

[Shibby!]

You CAN screw up the crank phase timing by using a standard automotive style puller (three bolts that thread into the puller and then a "push" bolt that threads through the center and pushes on the end of the crank). If you are holding the clutch side with a holder and then putting big torque on the magneto side end, you can twist the crank out of phase from one side of the engine to the other (you twist the crank between the 2 rod connections in the center of the engine). It can and has been done.

Also, the stator is very close behind the magneto and if you thread the puller bolts into the magneto to far, you can damage the stator coating and wiring, which is not cheap to fix.

The BRP puller threads into the magneto in the center and then braces against the side of the crankcase through the hole it's designed to fit in, so that there is no torsional load on the crank at all. The "push" bolt then pushes against the mag side end of the crank, all on the mag side of the engine.

I have taken many magneto's off the improper way by holding the clutch, with no bad experiences, but if you have access to the proper puller, by all means use it. The other way just presents a risk that should be avoided if possible.

The mag is keyed onto the crank, only goes on one way. It passes the firing sensor that triggers the signal and the stator, which is all stationary. The keyway is aligned when the crank is assembled, if they screwed it up, then the timing will be out, but if you are not pulling the crank apart then it's not going to change.

The stator will only bolt in one way also with 3 bolts, and if you don't have it properly aligned when you put it back in, it won't go in because the wires will be coming off it at the wrong spot, it's pretty hard to screw up when bolting back in.

Awesome!

Thanks.

Yea, I figure I'll take up either one of the above offers to do it right. My next worry is getting the bottom end out. My engine bay is looking pretty empty and normally I'm good at re-assembly, but after a few weeks it might be a bit vague and I'm worried about proper assembly or leaving a line off or something. I'll just have to follow the manual and be thorough. Thank God it's a 2-smoke and relatively simple. I look at those Nytro's and

Is there an easy way to drain the coolant? I have it down enough to take the cylinder off, but how do I get the rest out? Tip the back of the sled up and just keep draining out of the bottem inlet pipe?

 

[Shibby!]

When you reinstall the stator plate, put lots of loc tite on the bolts to ensure they are not a source of an air leak, as the holes go right though into the bottom end, or at least they did on my ZX 700, I'm guessing the 800 HO is the same.

I have a clutch puller if you need it.

Thanks for the tip!

I'll have to pick up all the locktite and gasket sealer yet, but figure I'll get the motor out and dissasembled bofore doing some of that. I'll keep this in mind for sure.

 

[tex78]

Thanks for the tip!

I'll have to pick up all the locktite and gasket sealer yet, but figure I'll get the motor out and dissasembled bofore doing some of that. I'll keep this in mind for sure.

make sure u use anorbic sealant on the 2 case halfs...........

 

[Modman]

Awesome!

Thanks.

Yea, I figure I'll take up either one of the above offers to do it right. My next worry is getting the bottom end out. My engine bay is looking pretty empty and normally I'm good at re-assembly, but after a few weeks it might be a bit vague and I'm worried about proper assembly or leaving a line off or something. I'll just have to follow the manual and be thorough. Thank God it's a 2-smoke and relatively simple. I look at those Nytro's and

Is there an easy way to drain the coolant? I have it down enough to take the cylinder off, but how do I get the rest out? Tip the back of the sled up and just keep draining out of the bottem inlet pipe?

Take lots of pics with a camera as you take things out, wrap a piece of tape on the all the lines etc that come off the motor and join the ends (making a little flag thingy) and then you can write a description (i.e. Vacuum) or letter or number on that. Do the same corresponding thing on the motor and then you will know exactly where they go when you are putting it back together. For electrical connections, I usually write a symbol (triangle, circle etc) on each side of the connector before you pull it apart, then you just match up the symbols when re-assembling (same idea). Plug all the lines with bolts etc so that nothing gets in them. If you have to plug off ports like the vacuum nipple in the crankcase, I use heat shrink, heat it up and then once it shrinks around the nipple, then I pinch the hot end together with pliers, seals it nicely and easy to cut off.

If you are taking off single wires (like coolant temp sensor wires on the head), then I usually mark lines on the wires and then mark the same lines on the eletrical prongs (1 mark on one line, one mark on the corresponding prong - the other line(s) and prong(s) get the same treatment but with 2, 3, 4, etc marks) then you just match up the # of lines from the wire to the prong with the same #. Plug and play.

I use a paint marker for all my marking, doesn't seem to come off as easy as sharpie etc if you wash the sled when the motor is out.

Mark your motor mounts before you pull the motor out while it is still bolted in place, either around the outside with a black marker or make a line across the mount and onto the bulkhead in one smooth stroke, then when you re-install the motor, you can get it basically bang on by just matching the marks and making sure they all meet up. Still a good idea to align it but this gets it really close, often times bang on.

If you have to back out any bolts (like motor stops, track tensioner bolts or chain tensioner bolts), I usually use a paint marker and "paint" the bolt threads that are protruding. Then when you back it out, the threads that were screwed into the locknut, chain case, etc are not painted. When you re-assemble, all you have to do is screw the bolt back in, up to where the painted threads begin (may require minor tweaking) and it should be really close to where it needs to be (so long as you are using the same parts and did not change gearing or install a new chain/track/whatever).

Unfortunately, there is no magical cure for the coolant thing, I use a suction thing and just try to get as much out as I can, but still wind up pulling the lower coolant hose and laying a pan and kitty litter under the sled and just letting the rest run out, usually not too much though by that point, only about 1 litre or so, if that.

 

[Polarblu]

wow you guys over complicate things!!!!
If you can pull the crank out of phase by tightening a steering wheel puller, its a good thing cause the crank needs some lovin!!! Even a crank slightly out of phase will create a tight loose feel in re-assembly, its pretty obvious.
After the flywheel is out, its not a magneto!!! Magneto is the whole assembly!! the rest comes apart like lego....... Dont stress just take your time!!!

 

[Modman]

wow you guys over complicate things!!!!
If you can pull the crank out of phase by tightening a steering wheel puller, its a good thing cause the crank needs some lovin!!! Even a crank slightly out of phase will create a tight loose feel in re-assembly, its pretty obvious.
After the flywheel is out, its not a magneto!!! Magneto is the whole assembly!! the rest comes apart like lego....... Dont stress just take your time!!!

LOL - are you gonna warranty his crank during re-assembly if he uses a steering wheel puller? why is this so complicated? seems easy to me....get the right tool, use it and no issues. I broke 3 harmonic balancer pullers taking one "flywheel" off an 800 Doo, sure they were the cheap ones but trying to save someone else the hassle of going through the paces....LOL

you don't put the crank out of phase by tightening the puller, you put the crank out of phase by holding the clutch stationary on one end of the crank and applying torque on the other end, the cranks are not pressed together that hard, seen a few twisted out of phase when running or breaking belts at higher RPM. Some of them things are put on pretty tight, big breaker bars multiply torque quickly and it is possible to do.

Flywheel....magneto......whatever. Always thought the flywheel with the 3 holes for the starter bolts, and the magneto is the piece attached to the magneto (piece with the magnets in it) - Doo calls it the flywheel in the parts fiche. Also lists the "magneto" as the flywheel - My sincerest apologies for the incorrect terminology - I hope I have not over complicated things for anyone.

19 420866756 Flywheel $82.49 CAD
10 410922953 Flywheel $306.99 CAD

 

[nielsy]

the right puller for the doo kind of locks on to the case so you don't have to worry about the phase but anyways if you bring it to me ill check and true your crank when it's out it.s fairly easy and i stock gaskets seals and isoflex

 

[Modman]

the right puller for the doo kind of locks on to the case so you don't have to worry about the phase but anyways if you bring it to me ill check and true your crank when it's out it.s fairly easy and i stock gaskets seals and isoflex

have you got a machine shop? I'm looking for someone to bore cylinders

 

[nielsy]

I can bore cylinders that's sleeved nicasil cylinders i send to cv tech in quebec