Chemical
Active member
Has anyone ever used toluene as an octane booster instead of mixing race fuel in the sled? I've heard that toluene has an octane of 114 and is much cheaper than race fuel, like C-111 or 112 for example.
Octane question
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scrfce
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huh interesting, id like to hear some responses to that
pipes
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I've don't a lot of reading on the net and yes toluene is an octane boster. I didn't record any of the sites that I went to but there is a lot of info out there as to how it all plays out.
overkill131313
Active VIP Member
I used all the time when I had my car (87 Grand National) there is an actual formula for working out octane rating on a web page. turbo regal web page. It has been 6 years since I have been to that page but it was on there under "rocket fuel".
I used to use xyzlene (spelling sucks but it sounds like zylene). toluene has a little bit "weaker" rating. toluene is 114-115 I think and the zylene is 118 if I rember right. I do know it is higher than toluene. I used to mix 2 gallons of zylene with 5 gallons of 94 octain from chevern and it made I think 100-102 octain.(cant remember exact numbers but I know my knock gauge said it was good under full boost (22psi)). in the reciepy it said this is the same that 104 or what ever that octane booster is but you add a dash of ATF(cleaner) and splash of deisel(lubercant) (I never did) the stuff you buy I allways thought when it said it adds 4 point I thought it would make 94 go to 98 but it only makes it go to 94.4 so for $10 your getting nothing lol. for $10 you can buy a gallon of zylene and it will do way more. Chevern uses it to up octane! I could go on and on but the point is it works. I know it wont give you any where near c12 or c14 but it will work better than av gas that is what 100 octain since it is not as dry fuel. sorry for babbling but go to the web page and try to hunt it down, it had a great write up.
Just my 2 cent or with that much writing my 36 cents lol
I used to use xyzlene (spelling sucks but it sounds like zylene). toluene has a little bit "weaker" rating. toluene is 114-115 I think and the zylene is 118 if I rember right. I do know it is higher than toluene. I used to mix 2 gallons of zylene with 5 gallons of 94 octain from chevern and it made I think 100-102 octain.(cant remember exact numbers but I know my knock gauge said it was good under full boost (22psi)). in the reciepy it said this is the same that 104 or what ever that octane booster is but you add a dash of ATF(cleaner) and splash of deisel(lubercant) (I never did) the stuff you buy I allways thought when it said it adds 4 point I thought it would make 94 go to 98 but it only makes it go to 94.4 so for $10 your getting nothing lol. for $10 you can buy a gallon of zylene and it will do way more. Chevern uses it to up octane! I could go on and on but the point is it works. I know it wont give you any where near c12 or c14 but it will work better than av gas that is what 100 octain since it is not as dry fuel. sorry for babbling but go to the web page and try to hunt it down, it had a great write up.
Just my 2 cent or with that much writing my 36 cents lol
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Chemical
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So there probably wont be an issue running at least a gallon of toluene to 9 gal pumped premium in a sled with high comp heads? Just want to keep the octane atleast in the mid 90's.
I see this about 3 times a year - someone wants to blend their own race fuel by mixing paint brush cleaner with pump gas. Spend the money and buy proper race fuel. You can mix your own but pump fuel grades vary each time you buy them based on tank life, additives, etc, etc. Its not impossible to do, but there is a far greater science to it than just dumping something into a jerry can and shaking it around. Yes Xylene has a higher octane and therefore will resist deto better, but it will not help your motor make any more power.
Race fuels are blended and created with specific protocols that are not used when making regular pump grade gas for the mass consumer market (i.e oxygenates, etc). This is why it costs more. Guys have done it but typically they end up spending more time tuning their engine to run right on each "batch" they create, than they do actually driving/riding. Homebrew blends are typically more volatile and susceptible to fluctuation in combustion temp, ambient temp, jetting is far more critical ect, so more tuning is required (especially when sledding) as temp and elevation change rapidly. Your sled is a race horse even from the factory. You car will go 100,000 kms before any major servicing, your sled won't last 10% of that time without new pistons. This is why even some "tuned up" car motors can accept a blend of toluene and pump gas and still live. Many have tried and many have failed.
Xylene is used a solvent to clean paint brushes. Your final fuel quality blend will only be as good as what you start with. How long has that poor quality sub-grade xylene been sitting on the shelf? It is not subjected to strict manufacturing protocols since its intended use is to act as an industrial solvent. What other additves are in "paint brush cleaner" that you don't want in your motor? Its not uncommon for gasoline manufacturers to blend a mix of detergents or other solvents/compounds in the blend for the pump depending on the grade(octane), ambient temperature, humidity, base oil mix, etc.
I'm not going to get into the vapourization pressures, ignition temps and octane theory of each component but these all play a role in how fuel works in your motor.
Unless you have a surefire way (and there isn't one unless you have a refinery lab at your disposal) of confirming that each batch you generate will consistently be the same blend that you have tuned your motor for, you may save a few bucks and get lucky, but eventually that luck will change and any cost savings you managed to accumulate blending the homebrew will be spent on repairing your motor. Any motor required to run race gas is a more finely tuned instrument than what's sitting in your chevy cavalier and therefore requires that precision blended fuel to ensure it runs right.
In addition, most aromatic hydrocarbons (benzene, toluene ethylbenzene and xylene) are heavy soot formers (especially when running rich) and at lower combustion temps. Making race fuel isn't that easy. If it was, we would all be doing it.
Hope that helps.- Thread starter
- #7
Chemical
Active member
Well, the purpose of this blend is just to keep the octane above 91 because I just dont trust the pumped gas. I want to install RK heads and pistons and run a compression of 14. So what is your opinion now with running homebrew? Basically, i will be running 9 gal of esso 91 octane (comes from a buisy esso where the fuel turnover is quick) to 1 gal of toluene.
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pipes
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like modman said you could brew your own, but do you realy know what your getting. Xylene Toluene and Benzene are know carsonogins. not something that you should be playing with. Can you spell cancer? As modman says pump fuel vaties from batch to batch and add subgrade xylene of toluene and you my have a recipe for disaster. Not worth blowing an engine. If you truely are concerned about running good fuel go the a service station that moves a lot of premium fuel. That way you know that you are getting fuel that is not stale. Amsoils octane boost clains 7 points. that as close to 1octane number as you can get on a consumer product. I talked with my bulk fuel agent and asked him what CO-OP premium fuel octane rating is. He told me that the refinery tells him that it is 92 octane + or - 1. I imagine that any other refinery will tell you XX + or - 1. Take it from there.
Iron Horse Racing
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If it's just higher octane your after, they make octane boost, but understand why you want a higher octane. Higher octane doesnt make more hp...
Depending on the mods you have and the compression your at, the higher octane can actually reduce hp.
Depending on the mods you have and the compression your at, the higher octane can actually reduce hp.
Take it one step further it can actually cause engine damage. If your engine can not efficiently burn the fuel it can cause scoring due to cold cylinder temps. Alot like mashing the throttle on a cold engine.
I would still buy race fuel. Simply adding toluene or xylene to regular pump gas is not the solution. You can get race gas in 5 Gal jugs from VP or Sunoco or 1 gal jugs as well. This way you know you are getting a proper blended race fuel.
Octane rating is simply a fuels ability to resist detonation. Nothing more. Like IHR said, you need to understand why you need more octane. You cannot simply increase one component of the mixture and solve the problem. Think of it like baking a cake. If you were to increase just the flour, your cake probably wouldn't even rise, let alone taste good. Simply increasing the octane # is only addressing one parameter in the fuel, when there are many parameters in the fuel that work together to determine the combustion process. You may be increasing the vapourization pressure or temperature of the fuel and therefore changing the combustion characteristics of your mixture. Usually higher compression engines take higher octane due to the deto, we have established this.
Depending on your application, higher octane fuels with more retained energy have a higher ignition requirement than lesser fuels. This is why Top Fuel dragsters need to run tractor ignitions from diesel motors on them (this is the layman view of it - there are more technical issues there but basically this is the premise). Trying to get nitromethane to ignite is like striking a match underwater. The difference is the same as gas vs diesel fuel to ignite on a spoon. Without sufficient ignition energy for the higher octane, you may only burn a certain % of the fuel anyway, which means that you are not getting 100% of the fuels energy in the combustion process, so its 2 steps forward and 2 steps back. This is why race fuels have things like oxygenates in them to assist the combustion process, where ignition energy may be less than ideal.
You may end up with no knock by adding toluene, but you might have higher or lower combustion temperatures that will hurt performance more. A low combustion temp can end up like Deano said, a hot temp can end up melting pistons for example. Sure, you won't have any knock that is rattling out the ring keepers but it won't matter at that point. The impurities in the toluene or xylene make cause more hot spots with a potential for detonation or may slow the combustion process.
sumx54
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Very informative posting Modman THANKS 
YellowMissile
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While xylene does have a higher octane rating I believe it has some properties in it that cause a negative reaction with rubber. I have used toluene as an octane booster in some drag car engines with nothing but success and can attest to it being safe to use with rubber lines.
Uturn
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Your price on 20L is way cheaper than in Edmonton. Is the 20L price just for can refills or is it in it's own container.
vppower
Member
Currently sitting with 5 barrels of VP C111 here in GP. Lowest price per barrel in the Peace Country. With the pump gas being so inconsistent in octane, VP Fuel is a reliable source. These barrels sell fast each weekend.
powerteker
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can u mix vp with preimum pump gas?? never herd of it but just wondering
powerteker
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is that a stupid question
is that a stupid question
No such thing as a stupid question.
Yes you can mix race fuel and pump gas. Search Octane Calculators on the internet and you will find one that does the calculation for you based on how much octane you need and what kinds of fuel you want to blend.
Here's one that I use all the time. Really easy to use.
Octane Calculator - www.bazellracefuels.com
powerteker
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nobody was responding to me thats why. Would this do me any good on a stock motor 2007 800r??? thanks for the info
No - running more octane than necessary on stock motor will only hurt performance, not give you more power. you'll just be wasting money on race fuel. Stick with what the manufacturer specs for it (regular or premium).
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