Al "ley Cat"
Active VIP Member
Does anyone know of any studies that have been done on the effects of helicopters flying ;near,over..caribou areas? It seems to me when it comes to noise the heli is way louder than a couple of sleds.
helicopters
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aircanam
Active VIP Member
Here's an article I found
What recreational pursuit costs $2,300 per day, generates nearly 600 times the CO2 on a per/km basis as a Hummer, is subsidized by taxpayers, and scares the heck out of wildlife?
No, it's not a recreational space flight or a flight to Antarctica… It's heli-skiing with Canadian Mountain Holidays!
Canadian Mountain Holidays conducts heli-ski operations primarily in the Columbia Mountains of interior lower BC. Unfortunately, many of their recreation tenures and routes directly overlap critical habitat areas for the endangered mountain caribou.
Caribou, like most animals (and many humans), are disturbed and stressed by high-decibel machines flying above, and when landing or taking off, immediately overhead. On some of these routes overflights are many per day. That's a big stress on animals trying to make a living in winter in the mountains.
Most footage you might see of caribou are of these gorgeous animals running downhill through deep snow. They aren't doing it simply for the freedom of running, but because there's a plane or helicopter overhead, with cameras running. Caribou in winter are on the edge physiologically–how would you feel if you'd subsisted on lichens all winter?–and they don't need to be burning extra calories to escape from harassing overflights.
Mountain caribou are endangered in BC and the US. The BC government is currently finalizing plans to implement caribou habitat protections. These include prohibitions on logging and roadbuilding and closing some critical caribou habitat to snowmobiling.
However, the BC government has not committed to such closures for heli-skiing despite the fact that such activities could drive caribou from their preferred critical winter habitat. Government is instead allowing industry to self-regulate–to fly and drop skiers when and where they want. Mountain Caribou Project Groups have consistently opposed this approach, insisting that scientists' recommended motorized closures should apply to heli-skiing, but the issue is still unresolved.
Next time you're considering Canadian Mountain Holidays for your first, or maybe your last, heli-ski vacation in BC's Rockies, make sure to let them know that you care about caribou, and ask them to help protect endangered caribou and limit their runs to areas outside critical caribou habitat.
Also looking up online a Bell 412 Helicopter burns 428 Litres per hour, that's 10 times what any sled will burn on a good day of riding, multiply that by 8 hours of flying and a single helicopter is burning well over what 100 Sledder's burn in a day. But of course the media is never going to report on these issues.............cause according to them all sledders are bad
I have a friend who does alot of back country hiking and skiing (not heli) and eats alot of granola but in discussions with her she prefers to deal with sledders because for the most part she knows where they operate and can steer clear or hitch a ride to get into the back country faster. The choppers just piss her off as often they come out of nowhere, often flying to low for comfort. Not all greenies are bad but for the most part I think she is the exception to the rule.
What recreational pursuit costs $2,300 per day, generates nearly 600 times the CO2 on a per/km basis as a Hummer, is subsidized by taxpayers, and scares the heck out of wildlife?
No, it's not a recreational space flight or a flight to Antarctica… It's heli-skiing with Canadian Mountain Holidays!
Canadian Mountain Holidays conducts heli-ski operations primarily in the Columbia Mountains of interior lower BC. Unfortunately, many of their recreation tenures and routes directly overlap critical habitat areas for the endangered mountain caribou.
Caribou, like most animals (and many humans), are disturbed and stressed by high-decibel machines flying above, and when landing or taking off, immediately overhead. On some of these routes overflights are many per day. That's a big stress on animals trying to make a living in winter in the mountains.
Most footage you might see of caribou are of these gorgeous animals running downhill through deep snow. They aren't doing it simply for the freedom of running, but because there's a plane or helicopter overhead, with cameras running. Caribou in winter are on the edge physiologically–how would you feel if you'd subsisted on lichens all winter?–and they don't need to be burning extra calories to escape from harassing overflights.
Mountain caribou are endangered in BC and the US. The BC government is currently finalizing plans to implement caribou habitat protections. These include prohibitions on logging and roadbuilding and closing some critical caribou habitat to snowmobiling.
However, the BC government has not committed to such closures for heli-skiing despite the fact that such activities could drive caribou from their preferred critical winter habitat. Government is instead allowing industry to self-regulate–to fly and drop skiers when and where they want. Mountain Caribou Project Groups have consistently opposed this approach, insisting that scientists' recommended motorized closures should apply to heli-skiing, but the issue is still unresolved.
Next time you're considering Canadian Mountain Holidays for your first, or maybe your last, heli-ski vacation in BC's Rockies, make sure to let them know that you care about caribou, and ask them to help protect endangered caribou and limit their runs to areas outside critical caribou habitat.
Also looking up online a Bell 412 Helicopter burns 428 Litres per hour, that's 10 times what any sled will burn on a good day of riding, multiply that by 8 hours of flying and a single helicopter is burning well over what 100 Sledder's burn in a day. But of course the media is never going to report on these issues.............cause according to them all sledders are bad
I have a friend who does alot of back country hiking and skiing (not heli) and eats alot of granola but in discussions with her she prefers to deal with sledders because for the most part she knows where they operate and can steer clear or hitch a ride to get into the back country faster. The choppers just piss her off as often they come out of nowhere, often flying to low for comfort. Not all greenies are bad but for the most part I think she is the exception to the rule.
paulw22
Active VIP Member
From my perspective I have seen hundreds of Cariboo, none of which have ran away from me because I don't go close. Why does every picture that comes from a chopper show them running? Choppers are loud,destructive and highly inefficent, I once saw one knock a peice of lichen off a tree
ferniesnow
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Totally unscientific but....anecdotal comments from some of the long time Revy residents.
Because of the scientists taking blood samples, installing radio collars, and doing aerial counts of the caribou they are in constant turmoil every time they hear or see heicopters. On the other hand, the caribou will continue to remain laying down, chewing their cud when "respectfully" approached by sleds. Sledders have been able to see caribou, shut off their machines and have lunch watching these endangered species. No problem as long as the sledders don't begin to chase and harass the animals.
Now, if the caribou are really threatened in BC, maybe it would be wise to quit hunting them.....
Because of the scientists taking blood samples, installing radio collars, and doing aerial counts of the caribou they are in constant turmoil every time they hear or see heicopters. On the other hand, the caribou will continue to remain laying down, chewing their cud when "respectfully" approached by sleds. Sledders have been able to see caribou, shut off their machines and have lunch watching these endangered species. No problem as long as the sledders don't begin to chase and harass the animals.
Now, if the caribou are really threatened in BC, maybe it would be wise to quit hunting them.....
maxwell
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moyiesledhead
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Now, if the caribou are really threatened in BC, maybe it would be wise to quit hunting them.....
"Mountain" Caribou are threatened in B.C., and haven't been hunted (legally anyway!) since the early '90s.
Woodland, and Barren Ground Caribou aren't threatened.
Same animal too....Mountain Caribou just live in a different place! They're not a different species....just a different "eco type"!
Geez, I know wayyyyy more about this crap than I ever wanted to! :d
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SOMEONE PLEASE SEND THAT TO THE PRESS............. FRIGGIN' HELICOPTERS
fargineyesore
Active VIP Member
I agree. After Weigle's comments to the press recently, the other side of the story needs to get out.SOMEONE PLEASE SEND THAT TO THE PRESS............. FRIGGIN' HELICOPTERS
DaveB
Active VIP Member
I've said it for years...can't believe people think that a helicopter burning 5.5 litres of fuel PER MINUTE, is an environmentally responsible thing to do. (I found the spec on-line that says the UH-1 or 212 or 214 have a unloaded flying time of 2.5 hrs with its capacity of 832 litres of fuel) So seven hours of flying in a day is 2330 litres. That's equivelant to 60 (SIXTY) sleds IF they burn nearly a full tank of fuel each. I don't know about you, but I've found that each newer sled I get has better mileage than the previous one. I carried the same jerry can of fuel around all last season without needing it.
paulw22
Active VIP Member
I aggree, but he has more time and money to pursue the damnation of back country snowmobileing. Whoever makes a statement about him and his helicopters better be ready for a battle.
2manykids
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Why is ther a battle, let the #'s speak for themselves
ferniesnow
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What about the hunting of "mountain caribou" in the NE? Surely there is an overlap in that area with the woodland speices? Your thoughts?
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Al "ley Cat"
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sorry have not seen or heard his(Weigles) comments could you tell me where to loo for ?
Rescue Pilot
Active member
Just some trivial Info....prior to commencing the stone throwing
CMH shut down 3 Ski areas and sent 7 Helicopters to Boulder on Saturday March 13.
They responed to the Eagle Pass incident tonight with 5 Aircraft from those same 3 areas (CMH Revy, CMH Gothics, CMH Adamants).
Selkirk Tangiers Heliskiing also sent aircraft and Staff from their Revy operation on both calls.
The are not the enemy, they will send their people and resources to help.
CMH shut down 3 Ski areas and sent 7 Helicopters to Boulder on Saturday March 13.
They responed to the Eagle Pass incident tonight with 5 Aircraft from those same 3 areas (CMH Revy, CMH Gothics, CMH Adamants).
Selkirk Tangiers Heliskiing also sent aircraft and Staff from their Revy operation on both calls.
The are not the enemy, they will send their people and resources to help.
Carbon
Active VIP Member
Just some trivial Info....prior to commencing the stone throwing
CMH shut down 3 Ski areas and sent 7 Helicopters to Boulder on Saturday March 13.
They responed to the Eagle Pass incident tonight with 5 Aircraft from those same 3 areas (CMH Revy, CMH Gothics, CMH Adamants).
Selkirk Tangiers Heliskiing also sent aircraft and Staff from their Revy operation on both calls.
The are not the enemy, they will send their people and resources to help.
debates never over help,always welcome.just the battle of heli ski operator's verses sledders in each others tenures and one said operator one siding things a little to much.......
2manykids
Active VIP Member
Just some trivial Info....prior to commencing the stone throwing
CMH shut down 3 Ski areas and sent 7 Helicopters to Boulder on Saturday March 13.
They responed to the Eagle Pass incident tonight with 5 Aircraft from those same 3 areas (CMH Revy, CMH Gothics, CMH Adamants).
Selkirk Tangiers Heliskiing also sent aircraft and Staff from their Revy operation on both calls.
The are not the enemy, they will send their people and resources to help.
If my post about the eggbeaters sounds disrespectful that is not my intent. I have worked under some of what i would call the best. Glad to have you on the site, i am sure you will have another side of a story.
flying frenchman
Active VIP Member
We can complain about everything we want but you know who helps out in rescues, it's those with helicopters.
Maclintock
Active member
Wiegle is about Wiegle and always will be.
Environmentalits are about preserving the environment and always will be.
sledders are about sledding and always will be.
I was up on Frisbee 2 saturdays ago ( Not in the closed Caribou part). Their were 4 of us enjoying the sun and having lunch, when 1 of my friends pointed out 2 Caribou about the length of a football field away, come out of the trees to the west of us. I had never seen a caribou up their before. They just stood their and enjoyed the sun as well. After about 5 minutes a group of 6 sledders came up to our left and stopped on the top of the ridge and then one of them yelled and pointed at the 2 Caribou ( 1 of which I presumed was a calf from last year as it was quite a bit smaller). In disbeleif I watched as all 6 of them gunned their sleds and charged towards the 2 animals.When they got to about 1/2 the way their, the 2 animals began running and the sledders kept going after them. it was pathetic to watch as the little one ran away from the mother in sheer panic and the sleds broke into 2 groups and carried on after them over a hill. ( Caribou look like camels when they run)
I could not beleive what I was seeing.
Some sledders are idiots!
Environmentalits are about preserving the environment and always will be.
sledders are about sledding and always will be.
I was up on Frisbee 2 saturdays ago ( Not in the closed Caribou part). Their were 4 of us enjoying the sun and having lunch, when 1 of my friends pointed out 2 Caribou about the length of a football field away, come out of the trees to the west of us. I had never seen a caribou up their before. They just stood their and enjoyed the sun as well. After about 5 minutes a group of 6 sledders came up to our left and stopped on the top of the ridge and then one of them yelled and pointed at the 2 Caribou ( 1 of which I presumed was a calf from last year as it was quite a bit smaller). In disbeleif I watched as all 6 of them gunned their sleds and charged towards the 2 animals.When they got to about 1/2 the way their, the 2 animals began running and the sledders kept going after them. it was pathetic to watch as the little one ran away from the mother in sheer panic and the sleds broke into 2 groups and carried on after them over a hill. ( Caribou look like camels when they run)
I could not beleive what I was seeing.
Some sledders are idiots!
Two years ago at an event in Revy we stopped and took pic's of a small herd of Mtn Caribou on Frisbee Ridge at the edge of a well-used sledding path (they can't read the signs that say: Sledders only, Caribous stay out (har har)). A guide with another group came by and stopped beside us. He told me that naah, we sledders don't hardly make them blink, but they will quickly scatter sometimes, and a few minutes later, we humans will begin to hear the wop wop of a chopper appraching in the distance.
I stumbled upon a rare opportunity to spend some good time with a local Wiegle PR guy, and he helped me realize how we disadvantage ourselves every time we save our $60 or $70 ASA membership. Weigle has strength in proven numbers, in dollars, and that helps him with the political influence that he works very hard at.
Don't spite the man that gets it: instead perhaps look in the mirror and ask yourself:
"self, what do I do to protect my rights to ride??"
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