Geothermal

[S.W.A.T.]

Wondering if any one here has geothermal in their home, particularly interested in information about drilled geothermal vs using a "field".

 

[broke'n'nuts]

I have it, field style. Not a fan. It works OK but alot depends on ground conditions and style of house. Have large living room with vaulted ceiling and it runs quite a bit when it cools down to keep it warm. Fairly high electric bill In winter. I do like the fact it works as AC in summer.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

I have it, field style. Not a fan. It works OK but alot depends on ground conditions and style of house. Have large living room with vaulted ceiling and it runs quite a bit when it cools down to keep it warm. Fairly high electric bill In winter. I do like the fact it works as AC in summer.

How deep is it buried?

 

[broke'n'nuts]

6-8 feet 4 trenches 300 feet long. House is approximately 4000 square feet. The ground where I am is fairly sandy, which I don't think helps much

 

[S.W.A.T.]

6-8 feet 4 trenches 300 feet long. House is approximately 4000 square feet. The ground where I am is fairly sandy, which I don't think helps much

No definitely not helping but also doesn't sound deep enough. I helped when my uncle did his, 14 years ago, and have recently been doing lots of research on this. We buried my uncles 14ft deep, 4 trenches and about the 4000sqft house. Their bills are pretty cheap unless the power is out for days on end which doesn't happen much anymore.

Did you do it yourself or a contractor?

 

[RJP]

Not to derail but another option

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[Chump]

Get a navien combi boiler. Instant hot water and reliable slab heat

 

[S.W.A.T.]

Really just interested in geothermal.

 

[Dazzler]

6-8 feet 4 trenches 300 feet long. House is approximately 4000 square feet. The ground where I am is fairly sandy, which I don't think helps much

Your field is marginal for that size home in a heavy clay ( pending heat loss calc) sandy soil is not good (as you mentioned) for horizontal Geo field unless high water table. If the system fails on a dry year, consider watering it down with a water truck. Vertical bore holes are best 80% of the time but of course costs are much higher. My system is 25 years old now, 6 boreholes at 210’, 3200 sq ft home. Have had minimal issues. Just upgraded the heat pump last year to the latest and greatest.

 

[ctd]

Not to derail but another option

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Interesting with some good advantages over hydronic, one thing I could not find is a energy cost of operation vs hydronic. I think it would consume more energy to operate.

 

[Chump]

Not to familiar with geo thermal to be honest. But I'm in new construction acreages and homes everyday and I NEVER see geo thermal. Just about every Richie home I go into now uses Combi boilers and hydronic. Definitely curious about it though

 

[Snort]

We have been using Geothermal for our ~1400 sqft bungalow for the last 16(?) years. The contractor that did ours also drilled water wells but suggested that we go the field route. We excavated one large area to a depth of 6-8'.

It does cycle on and off quite frequently but I think that one of the main reasons for that is the electronic thermostat. It doesn't have much of a deadband unlike an old mechanical thermostat that might swing 2-3 degrees between on/off.

We opted for the back up heating coil and had to use that once in the first winter. They had overfilled the fluid and needed to drain a little back out to get the heat pump back up and running.

The cooling in the summer works very well and any heat put into the ground through the summer is supposed to provide more heat to pull out in the winter.

The initial install called for a 60 amp breaker for the compressor so these units definitely use some electricity. I downsized it to a 50 amp and have never had any issues. The biggest draw is obviously the in rush at start up. I should throw a meter on it when its running sometime and see what it is actually drawing.

 

[Dazzler]

We have been using Geothermal for our ~1400 sqft bungalow for the last 16(?) years. The contractor that did ours also drilled water wells but suggested that we go the field route. We excavated one large area to a depth of 6-8'.

It does cycle on and off quite frequently but I think that one of the main reasons for that is the electronic thermostat. It doesn't have much of a deadband unlike an old mechanical thermostat that might swing 2-3 degrees between on/off.

We opted for the back up heating coil and had to use that once in the first winter. They had overfilled the fluid and needed to drain a little back out to get the heat pump back up and running.

The cooling in the summer works very well and any heat put into the ground through the summer is supposed to provide more heat to pull out in the winter.

The initial install called for a 60 amp breaker for the compressor so these units definitely use some electricity. I downsized it to a 50 amp and have never had any issues. The biggest draw is obviously the in rush at start up. I should throw a meter on it when its running sometime and see what it is actually drawing.

You likely have a 068-072 system. They need the big breaker to fire only. The earlier 5-6 ton systems (25-30 years ago) would pull 18-20 amps when working hard. The newer 5-6 ton heat pumps 12-15 amp under full load. Properly sized field helps keep the amp draw down.

 

[broke'n'nuts]

No definitely not helping but also doesn't sound deep enough. I helped when my uncle did his, 14 years ago, and have recently been doing lots of research on this. We buried my uncles 14ft deep, 4 trenches and about the 4000sqft house. Their bills are pretty cheap unless the power is out for days on end which doesn't happen much anymore.

Did you do it yourself or a contractor?

The original install was completely effed up. Trenches were to short and it couldn't keep up. Had 2 different reputable contractors/installers look at it to confirm the issues, one of them did the work. They did good work and have a good local reputation. It works OK, just not as I'd like, and I think the design of the house has lots to do with it. Any of the areas with average ceiling height it stays fairly warm. The large open area, not so much. As someone else mentioned, thermostats are a whole other ball game and another conversation with these systems. As is the electric grid or emergency heat option. I use a pellet stove for backup, and to give the system a break. The system was in the house when I bought it, and as of now I have almost completely redone it, new field, new ducting, new furnace unit, adding one more heat pump for a total of 3. Got rid of the de super heater as I think it was hard on the hot water tank.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

We have been using Geothermal for our ~1400 sqft bungalow for the last 16(?) years. The contractor that did ours also drilled water wells but suggested that we go the field route. We excavated one large area to a depth of 6-8'.

It does cycle on and off quite frequently but I think that one of the main reasons for that is the electronic thermostat. It doesn't have much of a deadband unlike an old mechanical thermostat that might swing 2-3 degrees between on/off.

We opted for the back up heating coil and had to use that once in the first winter. They had overfilled the fluid and needed to drain a little back out to get the heat pump back up and running.

The cooling in the summer works very well and any heat put into the ground through the summer is supposed to provide more heat to pull out in the winter.

The initial install called for a 60 amp breaker for the compressor so these units definitely use some electricity. I downsized it to a 50 amp and have never had any issues. The biggest draw is obviously the in rush at start up. I should throw a meter on it when its running sometime and see what it is actually drawing.

This is the reason for my interest.

As a water well driller I am looking to explore other options. I've had a few customers reach out and ask. I'm just getting myself familiar with how to size it according. I have seen a few trenches systems installed, depths and size seem to be a big factor. Like I mentioned before, I had helped my uncle with his and it was 14 feet deep. I've heard some recommendations of 17ft. When weighing the cost of trenches vs drilling one would assume that trenches would be cheaper. However factor into hiring the machine capable of going deep enough, 6-8ft just isn't deep enough in canada and depending on location you may encounter bedrock, drilling would still be more expensive but requires less land and smaller footprint for more urban areas.

Most systems I've been looking at, including the drilling and installation with heat pumps etc are going to run a homeowner about 100k +/- depending on quality level of appliances and a few other variables.

With a few professionals I've talked to have it at a 15 year break even point. So a typical homeowner may never be in the home long enough to realize the final gain, however it's makes for a great selling feature.

Don't get me wrong, coming from the oil and gas world I am a big fan of burning fossil fuels, however with new home construction codes and permitting and everyone getting pushed towards electricity i think the market should create itself.

Cheaper initial options on the market, yes! For the long range??? Who knows. But ther definitely seems to be a push towards alternative heating systems

 

[team dirt]

This is the reason for my interest.

As a water well driller I am looking to explore other options. I've had a few customers reach out and ask. I'm just getting myself familiar with how to size it according. I have seen a few trenches systems installed, depths and size seem to be a big factor. Like I mentioned before, I had helped my uncle with his and it was 14 feet deep. I've heard some recommendations of 17ft. When weighing the cost of trenches vs drilling one would assume that trenches would be cheaper. However factor into hiring the machine capable of going deep enough, 6-8ft just isn't deep enough in canada and depending on location you may encounter bedrock, drilling would still be more expensive but requires less land and smaller footprint for more urban areas.

Most systems I've been looking at, including the drilling and installation with heat pumps etc are going to run a homeowner about 100k +/- depending on quality level of appliances and a few other variables.

With a few professionals I've talked to have it at a 15 year break even point. So a typical homeowner may never be in the home long enough to realize the final gain, however it's makes for a great selling feature.

Don't get me wrong, coming from the oil and gas world I am a big fan of burning fossil fuels, however with new home construction codes and permitting and everyone getting pushed towards electricity i think the market should create itself.

Cheaper initial options on the market, yes! For the long range??? Who knows. But ther definitely seems to be a push towards alternative heating systems

When I built on my acreage in 2005 geothermal was all the rage. I looked into it then as I had a large area to trench in the loops. I ended up going with a boiler unit with in floor throughout the whole house. The cost at that time was almost 75% less. Since then my power bills have gone up about 10-12% per year but my gas bill has stayed relatively flat if not decreased a few percentages. had a few pumps fail in 20 years o my system but it has been pretty inexpensive to operate. Glad I didn’t go the other route. Probably would have been unaffordable to run now. Only thing is I have no AC but I have lots of shade and can usually get a breeze through my place to cool it. I’m in southern Alberta and it’s known to get fairly warm here and I have really had no real need for AC

 

[S.W.A.T.]

When I built on my acreage in 2005 geothermal was all the rage. I looked into it then as I had a large area to trench in the loops. I ended up going with a boiler unit with in floor throughout the whole house. The cost at that time was almost 75% less. Since then my power bills have gone up about 10-12% per year but my gas bill has stayed relatively flat if not decreased a few percentages. had a few pumps fail in 20 years o my system but it has been pretty inexpensive to operate. Glad I didn’t go the other route. Probably would have been unaffordable to run now. Only thing is I have no AC but I have lots of shade and can usually get a breeze through my place to cool it. I’m in southern Alberta and it’s known to get fairly warm here and I have really had no real need for AC

How deep did you go with the trenches?

 

[team dirt]

How deep did you go with the trenches?

I didn’t go with geothermal. They were specked at 8’ and I needed 300’ I believe if I went with it though.

 

[broke'n'nuts]

Vertical would have been better for sure, but was almost double the cost to put it in as I was quoted. I have enough property that trenches worked out decent. Again a lot of my problems were the original Install from top to bottom was garbage, so paying to fix some one else's mess left me with a bit of a bad taste. It's probably still cheaper to run than a propane system, because at the time of build that was probably the only other option other than full wood or pellet.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

Has anyone considered the incentives the government was handing out? Couple thousand here and there for different parts and pieces plus a 40k intrest free loan is what I've been seeing/hearing but haven't actually talked to anyone that has taken advantage of it.