creek and swamp xings

[imdoo'n]

out on sat and noticed wet area's are getting wider as riders look for ways across streams and swamps. i can see areas getting shut down for all the damage being done. anyone have quick, easy, cheap ideas on building bridges etc. had to throw a few logs in a stream as it was narrow and deep, just to get across. may have to carry a few 12 inch spikes and a saw the next time out.

had a great ride around table top and limestone mtn. area

 

[gmac]

I was down at the clearwater river west of Caroline with my rzr this saturday. We used to fish this area years ago and it was jammed full of rv's with quads running up and down in the river chewing the s**t out of it. I hope this gets shut down as it won't do the trout fishing any good. There was little rv cities set up in the bush everywhere you went.

 

[imdoo'n]

yeah noticed the same situation. seems like these clowns have no common sense, just rip and tear the crap out of everything, until it gets closed down.

 

[winterax]

It a long,long story. A group of us ( Athabasca Trail Consevation Society ) have been trying to work with Forestry to get a solution to the very problem you've been talking about ( technical term is "braided trails" ).Forestry will allow some minimal trail upkeep under what they call a TFA or Temporary Field Authorization. So our group will go out and put in a few corduroy's but not bridges because those have to be engineered in case they fall apart and someone decides to sue somebody's ass off. Anyways, the issue is that we can spend all kind of effort and $ doing the best thing, however it can be destroyed in a heartbeat by a seismic , oil or forest company with no reprecussions. The solution is to put a land use disposition on the trail ( we have what they call a CNT, Consultive Notation on our trails, the companies have to let us know that they are in the area, but if they wipe out an improvement, they can tell us to jam it if they want too ). To get more protection, you need an LOC or License of Occupation. This needs a legal survey, I don't think any group in the province can afford this. This only became "official " in the last few years, I believe the snowmobilers had their trials grandfathered in. I know all the LOC's the company I work for had their's grandfathered. The Crowsnest Quad Squad are in a Forest Land USe Zone, my understanding is they still have some problems with destroyed trails . So why not put in a GPS'd trail with something such as a Recreation trail designation that would let other users know it was there and protect the route from damage. Well, the gov will allow there own departments ( specifically Transportation ) submit a GPS'ed plan for a land use disposition, but they will not allow anyone from outside the gov to do it! Spend 10minutes, give your MLA a call, this a huge issue for all OHV groups across the province. Why would a group spend time & dollars fixing trails if it can be destroyed in 5 minutes by some cat operator ( on an LOC, commercial users need permission to use the road, if they wreck it, there's some serious $ involved to fix it, all charged back to the user who wrecks it ), Anyways, there's some pretty neat stuff called geo-grids that would work well in some of the skeg's and wet areas. Get organized, its a simple solution that one specific person in the SRD surveys branch is blocking.

 

[Garryese]

Whoa Winterax That is a very wide brush you are using there. Not every SRD area in the province is forcing us to jump hurtles. In some areas SRD has been very cooperative with efforts to prevent braiding, aiding in harding of trails, (un-engineered) bridging approvals and trail improvement protection.

Imdoo'n, as Winterax suggested geo-grid works well in soft areas. The Edson club, SRD, Parks and Yellowhead Woods Products have just agreed to try a matting near a bridge we put in on an ATV corridor through the Sundance Park. The matting is a baby version of rig matting, designed for easy installation on ATV trails. The matting will be installed on land managed by both SRD and Parks so we should have some good feedback by next spring. Yellowhead Wood Products is looking for ATV clubs to try this matting out.

 

[Dylan.B]

i was out near rocky on wednesday, we found a trail just past outwest and it had a few very well made wood bridges that went over wet areas across the trail. i know this cant be done everywhere, becuase it is expense for supplies and is time consuming,but it sure does make a difference.

 

[winterax]

Whoa Winterax That is a very wide brush you are using there. Not every SRD area in the province is forcing us to jump hurtles. In some areas SRD has been very cooperative with efforts to prevent braiding, aiding in harding of trails, (un-engineered) bridging approvals and trail improvement protection.

Imdoo'n, as Winterax suggested geo-grid works well in soft areas. The Edson club, SRD, Parks and Yellowhead Woods Products have just agreed to try a matting near a bridge we put in on an ATV corridor through the Sundance Park. The matting is a baby version of rig matting, designed for easy installation on ATV trails. The matting will be installed on land managed by both SRD and Parks so we should have some good feedback by next spring. Yellowhead Wood Products is looking for ATV clubs to try this matting out.

So are you guys doing it under a TFA, or is SRD giving you some kind of other disposition to cover the work that your're doing?

 

[imdoo'n]

definitely not trying to step on toe's here, or getting involved with a lot of government red tape, not even sure an atv club is in this area. just thinking that a few corduroy bridges placed at a few crossings may help. although it seems any improvement is usually destroyed in short order. i suppose cutting of logs etc for cheap bridge xing's would be frowned upon, although a few well placed logs may save some riding area's. just looking for few ideas on a few easy fixes.

 

[rubirose]

Bridges are a great idea wherever possible, but I have personally seen people avoid a perfectly good bridge just to go through the sensitive bog that it is there to protect, just to see if their machine can go through. Of course they get stuck, and destroy the new plant life while trying to get out.

 

[winterax]

definitely not trying to step on toe's here, or getting involved with a lot of government red tape, not even sure an atv club is in this area. just thinking that a few corduroy bridges placed at a few crossings may help. although it seems any improvement is usually destroyed in short order. i suppose cutting of logs etc for cheap bridge xing's would be frowned upon, although a few well placed logs may save some riding area's. just looking for few ideas on a few easy fixes.

No, no, don't get me wrong. I think its great that someone is asking about this and wants to do something about it. I don't think any Forest Officer in his right mind would take someone to task for putting in a corduroy without having a permit in place. We've been trying to do it by the book so we're viewed as stakeholders in the area so if someone does try to shut us out of an area , at least we're at the table to discuss it first. The field forest officers I deal with are pretty good and they realize the issues. However, their hands are tied with the current legislation. Yes, you will get some officers willing to approve a "temporary bridge " or other improvements, and those officers need a big pat on the back as they are sticking their necks out pretty good in some instances. I'm frustrated in that we can do a whole bunch of good work, have it wrecked and there is no consequences to those that do the damage.

 

[Garryese]

So are you guys doing it under a TFA, or is SRD giving you some kind of other disposition to cover the work that your're doing?

Yes we use a TFA. With a TFA you are working for SRD, on behalf of them. Biggest advantages to the TFA is you know SRD approves what you are doing and the volunteeers are covered by WCB if someone were to get injured while doing the work. BTW, our bridges are made of steel and will be there far longer than I will live for... anything but temperary. The bridge on the Southesk Trail came in using two helicopter trips and several quad trailers hauling the steel decking; it was then welded together on site. I'll try to find some pics and post them.


Imdoo'n, I cannot imagine SRD ever having a problem with someone placing a few logs across a creek to protect the banks. If every ATVer built one bridge or hardened one soft hole every year, our sport would be in great shape.

 

[imdoo'n]

thanks much. had no intention of hauling construction equip on the back of a quad, just looking for a few ideas to make quick bridges over a few bad spots. yes you can't stop the morons who want to tear up the country side, but there are a few who would use a temporary bridge.
any ideas of how to build other than throwing logs across the stream, i thought that a pair of logs over the area with logs across these and nailed or tied down would work. can't be to involved with the kind of equipment we would have.
if everyone built one bridge the trails would be in great condition, as not everyone likes spending hrs. stuck.

 

[Garryese]

Logs are the easiest. Nails/spikes work better than rope or wire to hold everything together.

 

[rubirose]

We have improved crossings ourselves in the past with logs. Nothing major but it makes it easier for us and the next guy. There is a lot of deadfall in the bush that is free for the taking to make crossings. And it is natural.

 

[imdoo'n]

yeah had the same idea, only wanted something a little more permanent may try using the spikes and nail them together.