2 Stroke Fuel info.

[skegpro]

Where does a guy find the data sheets for premium pumpgas?

Mostly interested in shell vpower and chevron 94.

Particularly interested in the MON numbers.

 

[sirkdev]

Where does a guy find the data sheets for premium pumpgas?

Mostly interested in shell vpower and chevron 94.

Particularly interested in the MON numbers.

Im guessing you won't, probably have to call the customer service line and ask. MSDS is now SDS BTW...

 

[skegpro]

Stole this from another, forum.
Real good read.


I think some of you may know this or are just not full of tinkeritis like my self !

This was copied from another forum. Interesting read for avid uneducated tinkerers like my self.

Key points:

-100LL is not 100 octane as we rate it for pump gas (R+M/2). It is actually ~96 octane by that measure.

-Quality and consistency is better than pump

-Shelf life is better than pump.

-Cheaper because you are not paying Road Taxes. Legally it's like running red dye... no no on the street.

-Lower Specific gravity than pump (density) means you actually run leaner with the same jetting.

-Important one here! Lower flame speed than race gas. 100LL is designed for 3500RPM operation. If you run consistently higher than that you will be spitting unburnt fuel out the pipe. Most pre-run or play cars don't spend too much time over 3500RPM

Real info on Race Gas/Av Gas...

My experience comes from 7 years as the western states representative for 76 Race Fuel, Unocals 40 hours Advanced Products course, Working personally with Tim Wusz (senior performance products Rep for Unocal, Tim was responsible for Unocals race fuel development for 30+ years). I have also met and discussed fuels/motors with just about every engine builder in every facet of racing in the western United States. I also conducted Educational Seminars at the Fred L. Hartley Institute in Brea in which we would invite Engine Builders for a tour of Unocals testing facilities and do live octane tests on any gasoline they would choose to bring to the seminar. Included in the training we would demonstrate live tests how Distillation curve, Reid Vapor Pressure, Specific Gravity, Octane Rating, F;ashpoint, etc are conducted and the importance of these numbers. Some of you will remember me from contingency with my 76 Racing Gasoline hospitality trailer in the 1990's.

Through the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's Av gas was the base product used for most racing "gasoline". VP, f&L, Turbo Blue, and Trick all used AV gas as the base product. They would buy a tanker (8000 gallons of Av Gas) than add other hydrocarbons/TetraEthylLead (TEL) to the base, drive around the block stopping and accelerating the truck/trailer until they felt the product was mixed well. Obviously this was not science, but it worked for most racers only because most racers use a higher rated octane than they actually need.

In the mid to late 1990's VP graduated to buying there own base product and do there blending of products in a much better fashion. Turbo Blue and Trick have since been bought Sunoco and are blended by Sonoco. Trick was purchased by Phillips 66 and has continued to be blended by Phillips 66.

The only two companies I am aware of who "cracked" there own base product is Sunoco and 76. And as we all know, 76 race fuel is no longer available, leaving only one true manufacturer of Racing Gasoline....Sunoco.

AV Gas has a MOR (motor octane rating) of 96, R+M/2 rating of 100, and ROM (Research Octane Rating) of 106.

AV Gas is lighter than racing gasoline thus more fuel/larger jetting is required. Jetted correctly you should not experience a lean burn at WOT.

I would not use AV Gas as a cleaner. The amount of TEL (2 grams/gallon) and other hydrocarbons makes it extremely carcinogenic. Same goes for all other racing gasolines.

Shelf life is NOT better. The reason pump gas won't last as long is because street gas has extremely lightend hydrocarbons to help your car start and idle. Racing Gasoline does not have these light end hydrocarbons needed for idle and starting, hence the reason race motors start and idle poorly.

Av Gas is NOT designed for low RPM motors. AV Gas is designed to not detonate/preignite causing detination. This would be the same design as race fuel. If you compare the "distillation curve" of AV Gas to Race Gas, you will find they are almost identical. The "distillation curve" controls the speed of burn across the combustion chamber.

You will only "spit" gas out the exhaust pipes if you run to rich or include a supercharger/turbocharger on your engine and "overdrive" the blower. Example would be the bitchin flames you see at the starting line of a drag race on normally aspirated engines and the long flames you see on all "blown" engines.

The LEAD (TEL) added to AV Gas is to increase the octane rating only. All heads these days have harden valve seats. There is no need for lubrication of the valve seats. All engines have come with harden seats since the late 60's.

AV Gas is not formulated for High Altitude. and will have very little, if not any performance differences vs racing gasoline. On the other hand, commercial grade fuels (87, 89, 92) will definitely enhance your performance due to the commercial fuel being oxygenated. The Oxygen enhancers added to commercial fuel is only for California Smog laws.

Advancing timing on your motor will definitely help with AV Gas and Race Gas due to its slow burn characteristics. On the other hand, be careful if your running commercial grade gasoline, more timing can cause detonation/preignition quit quickly.

AV Gas does not go BAD faster. It is extremely consistent. The MOR is only 96, whereas Sunoco Purple or VP C12 is 104. A rating of 96 is good for up to 10:1 on Steel heads and 12:1 on Aluminum heads with water cooling. Air cooled motors run much hotter.

Buying a higher octane for a $20-50K motor is the cheapest insurance available.

Remember this...OCTANE is a measure of a fuels ability to resist detonation/preignition. The higher the Octane number, the slower the fuel burns. Technically speaking 87 Octane fuel will develop more power than 118 Octane fuel. With this said, you should see gains in throttle response and HP by mixing commercial fuel and AV Gas/Race Gas. You now have some light end Hydrocarbons for throttle response and heavy hydrocarbons/TEL for detonation resistance.

Bottom line... use the most consistent fuel you can find and create horsepower by moving as much air as possible though the combustion chamber.

I have no reason to be bias here as I have moved on to much greener pastures. See you on the race course.

Good Luck,

Steve Poole

 

[niner]

https://www.facebook.com/ShellbourneFuels/

Catman10 is a dealer for Shellbourne. Been using it for 2 years in my turbo pro.

 

[kingcat162]

https://www.facebook.com/ShellbourneFuels/

Catman10 is a dealer for Shellbourne. Been using it for 2 years in my turbo pro.

How do you like the shellbourne? I just picked up a case - you just mix it with 91shell? To around 100 octane? - I read somewhere that 91 shell has a motor octane of 87 - thoughts?

 

[canuck5]

How do you like the shellbourne? I just picked up a case - you just mix it with 91shell? To around 100 octane? - I read somewhere that 91 shell has a motor octane of 87 - thoughts?

Motor octane is always lower than research octane as they run the knock engine at higher rpm with preheated fuel and variable timing to create more load. From what I can see in Canada pump gas is r+m/2 so motor octane would be a little less than advertised.

 

[niner]

How do you like the shellbourne? I just picked up a case - you just mix it with 91shell? To around 100 octane? - I read somewhere that 91 shell has a motor octane of 87 - thoughts?

I’m very happy with it. I mix 500 ml with 25 litres for my turbo. I run 250 ml in 25 litres in my Alpha. Yes I mix it with 91 octane.

 

[skegpro]

Motor octane is always lower than research octane as they run the knock engine at higher rpm with preheated fuel and variable timing to create more load. From what I can see in Canada pump gas is r+m/2 so motor octane would be a little less than advertised.

So when our sleds say they are rated for 91 octane, is the MON or RON?

 

[skegpro]

I’m very happy with it. I mix 500 ml with 25 litres for my turbo. I run 250 ml in 25 litres in my Alpha. Yes I mix it with 91 octane.

Which product exactly?

Is this an octane booster?

Or weasel piss for lubricity?

https://www.lighthouse-environmental-products.com/shellbourne-fuel-enhancers.html

 

[niner]

Which product exactly?

Is this an octane booster?

Or weasel piss for lubricity?

https://www.lighthouse-environmental-products.com/shellbourne-fuel-enhancers.html

Using the octane booster. Comes in sealed 1 litre containers.

 

[canuck5]

That’s pretty awesome you use it in high boost pressure applications? Is it leaded or what creates that high of a boost in octane ?

 

[skegpro]

Says unleaded.
I thought most octane booster was snake oil?

This seems almost to good to be true.
I don't know why anyone would carry and blend race or av if this works.

 

[canuck5]

For sure if it had that TEL in it I would buy into it. I want to hear that someone has run 12psi in a 2smoker for 1000km on a 91 premium mixed with it and see the pistons lol ok looks good.

 

[X-it]

Well if you have enough money you can run alkylate petrol in your sled, it is the only thing i use in all my small engines. No more hard starting power saws or weed eaters and generators.

 

[cattechsummitrider]

Found this interesting
https://www.fuelexpert.co.za/Octane-Booster-Shootout.php

 

[skegpro]

For sure if it had that TEL in it I would buy into it. I want to hear that someone has run 12psi in a 2smoker for 1000km on a 91 premium mixed with it and see the pistons lol ok looks good.

I assume that is how they get the octane protection in race fuel is by adding TEL,
The same as Ave gas.

 

[canuck5]

Found this interesting
https://www.fuelexpert.co.za/Octane-Booster-Shootout.php

That is interesting

 

[slededjr]

Shell 91 has a RON of 95 and MON of 91. In Canada and the US we use a 4-6 number difference between RON and Mon. Elsewhere in the world uses 8-12 number difference.

 

[X-it]

Aspen fuel ron/mon 102/90

 

[skegpro]

Found this interesting
https://www.fuelexpert.co.za/Octane-Booster-Shootout.php

That is interesting.

So basically, there are two ways to boost octane in fuels?

TEL (lead)

Or

Toluene