No O.H.V.'s at Catararct Creek Snow Vehicle Public Land Use Zone - Only Snowmobiles

hadster · Feb 9, 2015

srxdude does have a point, no OHV's allowed in and area....UNTIL there is maintaince & summer repairs to do, i doubt you will carry all the eqiuptment & supplies in on your back, ALL machines WITH tracks should be ok and considered a snow machine, as long as they have tracks what is the difference ???? I know in some cases a tracked quad can go through more than a sled, and they never leave the bumpy mound of snow behind them that sleds do when they take off at wide open throttle.
I use a snowmoblie on trails just like you guy's, but am open to sharing unlike some closed minded folks.

Pistonbroke · Feb 9, 2015

hadster said:
srxdude does have a point, no OHV's allowed in and area....UNTIL there is maintaince & summer repairs to do, i doubt you will carry all the eqiuptment & supplies in on your back, ALL machines WITH tracks should be ok and considered a snow machine, as long as they have tracks what is the difference ???? I know in some cases a tracked quad can go through more than a sled, and they never leave the bumpy mound of snow behind them that sleds do when they take off at wide open throttle.
I use a snowmoblie on trails just like you guy's, but am open to sharing unlike some closed minded folks.

I rarely use Cataract, but thank the volunteers for what they do down there to keep it going - great work folks!

Here is my observations on vehicle type. Anything on wheels destroys snowmobile trails in a hurry; no-one in their right mind will contest me on this one.
SxS's with tracks barely leave a mark on groomed trails, I don't see any problem with them. Same goes for the snow bikes! Maybe I missed it on backreading, but are snow bikes allowed at Cataract? I am guessing "no" is the official answer there.

TylerG · Feb 9, 2015

Pistonbroke said:
I rarely use Cataract, but thank the volunteers for what they do down there to keep it going - great work folks!

Here is my observations on vehicle type. Anything on wheels destroys snowmobile trails in a hurry; no-one in their right mind will contest me on this one.
SxS's with tracks barely leave a mark on groomed trails, I don't see any problem with them. Same goes for the snow bikes! Maybe I missed it on backreading, but are snow bikes allowed at Cataract? I am guessing "no" is the official answer there.

the long & short of it is, look at your registration, does Vehicle Type say "snowmobile"? if no, you are not permitted in this area.

signedge · Feb 9, 2015

Snow mobiles only. They don't allow Abrams Tanks with tracks either. Snow mobiles only. Pretty clear

Sledderglen · Feb 9, 2015

Government made the rules. Sometimes common sense doesnt come into the discussion. We all need to work within the rules

imdoo'n · Feb 10, 2015

signedge said:
Snow mobiles only. They don't allow Abrams Tanks with tracks either. Snow mobiles only. Pretty clear

Why not? You think they could stop one?

LBZ · Feb 11, 2015

Sledderglen said:
Government made the rules. Sometimes common sense doesnt come into the discussion. We all need to work within the rules

Did the government make the rules keeping in mind tracked bikes and atv's? I bet not. In fact, I bet they made these rules either before tracks for these machines were widely available or were maybe not even available at all. Or they were not aware that they even existed.
Time for a review and change IMO.
I don't own a tracked atv, and I sure as hell wouldn't ride a tire'd one in an area like that closed to wheeled vehicles. But I think there needs to be an exception to the rule for those with tracks as the impact they make is no worse than a snowmobile and maybe even less. I personally would have no problem with a tracked machine on those trails. Hell throw a GVW limit on it if your worried about tanks and tracked trucks going in there.

robb · Feb 11, 2015

LBZ said:
Did the government make the rules keeping in mind tracked bikes and atv's? I bet not. In fact, I bet they made these rules either before tracks for these machines were widely available or were maybe not even available at all. Or they were not aware that they even existed.
Time for a review and change IMO.
I don't own a tracked atv, and I sure as hell wouldn't ride a tire'd one in an area like that closed to wheeled vehicles. But I think there needs to be an exception to the rule for those with tracks as the impact they make is no worse than a snowmobile and maybe even less. I personally would have no problem with a tracked machine on those trails. Hell throw a GVW limit on it if your worried about tanks and tracked trucks going in there.

I agree completely. I think the clubs for the affected machines should be lobbying the government and presenting this information to change the laws. Until they do , they must respect that the laws are in place.

TylerG · Feb 11, 2015

robb said:
I agree completely. I think the clubs for the affected machines should be lobbying the government and presenting this information to change the laws. Until they do , they must respect that the laws are in place.

the unfortunate part, there is not a lot of "organized" ATV/UTV/Dirt Bike Club's out there yet.

robb · Feb 11, 2015

TylerG said:
the unfortunate part, there is not a lot of "organized" ATV/UTV/Dirt Bike Club's out there yet.

Do you think that is more of a reason for the closures than snowmobiles ? If no one stands up and says they want to use the area for their sport , why would the government include them in the law making process ?

TylerG · Feb 11, 2015

robb said:
Do you think that is more of a reason for the closures than snowmobiles ? If no one stands up and says they want to use the area for their sport , why would the government include them in the law making process ?

I would agree with this statement 100%, if there isn't a user group out there lobbying for use of the area, then why would the government go out of the way to allow them in. Especially when they look at area's like McLean Creek where the damage is not repairable.

IF they allow ATV/UTV's etc into these area's its going to be under very strict agreements, much like the Ghost area.

whoDEANie · Feb 11, 2015

TylerG said:
I would agree with this statement 100%, if there isn't a user group out there lobbying for use of the area, then why would the government go out of the way to allow them in. Especially when they look at area's like McLean Creek where the damage is not repairable.

IF they allow ATV/UTV's etc into these area's its going to be under very strict agreements, much like the Ghost area.

I actually tried to get the ball rolling on this yesterday by sending an inquiry into SRD. I asked them their position on including tracked ATV's in the definition of "snow machine". I'm still waiting for a response and will probably be waiting for a while. From there, I'll ask our club's AOHVA board member to raise the concern at the next AOHVA meeting. Let's see if anything comes of this - I'll keep y'all posted.

imdoo'n · Feb 11, 2015

In my opinion, there should be area's set aside for sledders only, atvs have more than enough area's to play in.

whoDEANie · Feb 11, 2015

imdoo'n said:
In my opinion, there should be area's set aside for sledders only, atvs have more than enough area's to play in.

I you could put tires on a sled, I'm sure the ATV would have no problem sharing during the summer. I see absolutely no reason why the converse can't be true. If anything, it just adds up to more ASA memberships.

Kaz Dog · Feb 11, 2015

Hi there Dean.

I will vigorously oppose this request from you through ESRD, as it is no longer SRD. Next, I will have my representatives at the A.S.A. oppose this request, if need be.

By the way, thanks for chiming in from Edmonton, as you know nothing - obviously - of the areas around Calgary and southern Alberta for O.H.V.s, where you can run your tracked non-snowmobiles until your hearts' content.

Let the games begin.

whoDEANie said:
I actually tried to get the ball rolling on this yesterday by sending an inquiry into SRD. I asked them their position on including tracked ATV's in the definition of "snow machine". I'm still waiting for a response and will probably be waiting for a while. From there, I'll ask our club's AOHVA board member to raise the concern at the next AOHVA meeting. Let's see if anything comes of this - I'll keep y'all posted.

Stickman70 · Feb 11, 2015

whoDEANie said:
I you could put tires on a sled, I'm sure the ATV would have no problem sharing during the summer. I see absolutely no reason why the converse can't be true. If anything, it just adds up to more ASA memberships.

Why not run your tracked quad at McLean Creek? It's closer and already designated for quads. OH YA, THAT AREA IS ALREADY F'ED UP BY QUADS!!!
Maybe the government see's what happened there and doesn't want it happening at Cataract.

whoDEANie · Feb 11, 2015

I don't think anyone has suggested opening it up to non "snow machines". All I was suggesting is that we update the definition of how a snow machine is defined. If including tracked ATV's (under a certain weight, of course) in the snow machine category poses some concern, I'd be interested to hear it. I mean that sincerely. The very opposing (and emotional) comments lead me to believe I am totally missing something here.

I'm not talking specifically about Cataract, but snowmobile trails in general. Some snowmobile clubs seem to have no problem with it. To me, it seems like a way for two unnecessarily distinct communities to begin uniting.

Edit: I'd also like to add that I asked SRD to explain their position. That way, if it's not feasible for some reason, we can support their decision not to make special provisions for tracked ATV's.

Kaz Dog · Feb 11, 2015

whoDEANie said:
"I am totally missing something here."

Dean,

I am all for uniting in common purpose, all O.H.V.'ers.

When the wheeled ATV/SidexSide community at large (including the ones with tracks) get out of their "seats" and grabs a "shovel and axe" to maintain trails they ride, I will be all for uniting. Until such a time, I will stay stead-fast in my position, and abide by the law.

KD

Sledderglen · Feb 11, 2015

The insurance world wont cover ATV UTV on snowmobile trails. ASA cant sell a trail pass to a ATV UTV because of insurance reasons. They have looked into the idea and no insurance wil give them the proper trail coverage to have a organized trail system with.

Trail insurance has a very limited group of companies to deal with. Their rules are in their favor.

Like what was said already. McLean creek has it all for motorized needs. Sleds ATV UTV dirt bikes snow bikes trucks jeeps whatever spins your wheels. This area needs a organized McLean creek off road club to clean up and improve the trails for all to use safe and responsible use. By the sounds of things this area needs some work. I have never been there on the trails just from what I have heard from a number of people

LBZ · Feb 11, 2015

Kaz Dog said:
Dean,

I am all for uniting in common purpose, all O.H.V.'ers.

When the wheeled ATV/SidexSide community at large (including the ones with tracks) get out of their "seats" and grabs a "shovel and axe" to maintain trails they ride, I will be all for uniting. Until such a time, I will stay stead-fast in my position, and abide by the law.

KD

Lots of sledders that don't do a damn thing to maintain trails, litter, do damage to public property, etc. also. And I know lots of guys that maintain trail systems on ATV's in the summer that are primarily used or designated snowmobile use only in the winter so I don't see any validation in your above statement.
Also, if I ride these trails on a sled and never do a damn thing to maintain them does this mean I'm not allowed to ride them either?

That's the way I understand it according to you.

Sledderglen said:
The insurance world wont cover ATV UTV on snowmobile trails. ASA cant sell a trail pass to a ATV UTV because of insurance reasons. They have looked into the idea and no insurance wil give them the proper trail coverage to have a organized trail system with.

Trail insurance has a very limited group of companies to deal with. Their rules are in their favor.

Like what was said already. McLean creek has it all for motorized needs. Sleds ATV UTV dirt bikes snow bikes trucks jeeps whatever spins your wheels. This area needs a organized McLean creek off road club to clean up and improve the trails for all to use safe and responsible use. By the sounds of things this area needs some work. I have never been there on the trails just from what I have heard from a number of people

The trail insurance thing is the biggest and only reason I can see to not allow tracked atv/sxs/bike machines on snowmobile use only trails. And quite understandable as to why. Not that I agree an atv or bike on tracks is any different than a sled in use. And depending on how they are ridden possibly even safer. But that's the way the insurance world works. Kind of odd that you can register and insure a bike to ride on the highway, but not on a snowmobile trail if it has a track on it.

No O.H.V.'s at Catararct Creek Snow Vehicle Public Land Use Zone - Only Snowmobiles

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