BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

moyiesledhead · Oct 11, 2016

In a nutshell.....the BCSF is looking at a proposal for a provincial membership, $150 preseason purchase, $200 regular season, and redistribution of all money collected to the clubs by the BCSF. This would mean you could ride any BCSF member clubs trails without having to buy daily trail passes. I repeat.....this is a DRAFT PROPOSAL. Don't get all excited about buying it this season.

Pretty sure I know what the guys that travel to ride will think about this. I'm more interested in comments from local club members that tend more to ride at home. Also lookiong for comments from some of the bigger clubs that could potentially have reduced revenue from this proposal.

In my particular case, I belong to 2 clubs currently, so cost is "presently" about the same, since you only pay the BCSF portion once....BUT, it will probably kill one of those clubs. In Moyie we have a small 18 member non-grooming club with yearly membership of $50. If all our members were to pay the new fee, our club would actually see a substantial revenue increase from the new scheme. Problem is 95% of our members never ride anywhere else and won't pay such a large increase to ride at home. The club would either cease to exist, or more likely just continue outside the BCSF. The second club with around 200 members has a groomed, user pay trail system. I belong to the club because I always have, and have in the past been very involved in the operation of the club. Membership is $100 per year, or for me $74 because I already pay the BCSF portion with the Moyie club. Problem is I probably only ride their area a couple times a year now. I'm about to retire and doubling + of my membership cost is probably a non-starter on a fixed income for an area I don't ride. So in all likelyhood if this goes through, I probably won't belong to the BCSF any more.

Comments?

Bnorth · Oct 11, 2016

I think it's a move in the right direction to unite a voice of our user group. However, it will be difficult to iron out the details as far as revenue allocation. I also primarily ride one area with a few days a year in other club's tenure and pay the trail fee less the BCSF portion. I have no issue with this but if I were doing it more I may feel differently. All in all it's an important step in the right direction and the details will be figured out as it progresses. Short term pain for long term gain IMO.

ferniesnow · Oct 11, 2016

It would be interesting to see if the BCSF could get a handle on the number of members that have multiple memberships. I would think that with SilkStart they would be able to pull the numbers. I have belong to a minimum of two and have in the past belonged to 4 clubs. With the idea of supporting the broader community.

A question about the original post; the small club(s) that are now charging $50-80 with no regular grooming, maybe no grooming, maybe no warm-up shelters, are the members going to pay the higher fees? They try it for a year and find they have no or very few members. The biggest complainers with fee increases are the local members. The out of town members seem to understand a little better. With operating expenses going up there are clubs that can't operate on reduced club membership fees (Revelstoke and Sicamous, just to name a couple). I am sure if 50% of the members in Revelstoke bought the preseason pass at $150.00, they would be really scratching and looking for money to pay for fuel and groomer repairs.

BTW this will not cut down on the sale of the daily trail pass or the cost of needing trail pass vendors. There will always be people coming for a day trip.

lilduke · Oct 11, 2016

I don't think the Revy club would be too stoked on this idea for some reason, it's not even winter yet and they email me once a week to pay my dues...lol

Eldereldo · Oct 11, 2016

Even though I think it would be a great idea from a user point of view, I have no idea how you could work that out. The clubs like Revy that depend on the revenue they get from selling a more expensive membership because of the grooming and cabins aren't going to be able to get by on just a portion of a system wide pass. Maybe if each time you rode an areas your pass was scanned, and the total money's collected were then distributed by use. But the small places that couldn't have someone collecting that info lose out even more then.

maybe they need something like the ski areas do. You can by a single area pass, priced at whatever the area wants to sell it for, or you can buy multiple area passes that a include a number of areas for a higher fee. A lot of those are areas that are owned by the same company, but in many cases there are ones that are just agreements to share revenue. But again,they can determine how to divide it by recording who is skiing where because of the pass scanning.

tex78 · Oct 11, 2016

Re: BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

lilduke said:
I don't think the Revy club would be too stoked on this idea for some reason, it's not even winter yet and they email me once a week to pay my dues...lol

Either is eagle valley sled club ( sicamous) , we talked about this last meeting

I do think it's a good idea for the small clubs, but even the big ones, like sicamous is just barely getting buy at statis quo

Any less coming in and then all the issues with back door riders ect will happen more, then even less money comes in. Cabins get less maintenance, less signs, the list goes on

sent while drinking tea's

catinthehat · Oct 11, 2016

Bnorth said:
I think it's a move in the right direction to unite a voice of our user group. However, it will be difficult to iron out the details as far as revenue allocation. I also primarily ride one area with a few days a year in other club's tenure and pay the trail fee less the BCSF portion. I have no issue with this but if I were doing it more I may feel differently. All in all it's an important step in the right direction and the details will be figured out as it progresses. Short term pain for long term gain IMO.

Our voice was united as much as it ever will be when the ABC and BCSF organizations combined. This will do nothing more in that regard, in fact I think it will cause our numbers to decrease because as was stated earlier some of the small clubs will just opt out of the BCSF as the members will not pay that huge increase.

Lund · Oct 11, 2016

Well i know most of you hardly ever agree with me but i have been lobbying for this for 20years and i have been beat down on this discussion even on this forum. I believe it can work. It works in the east and has for years, it can work here with some customization to fit our province. My self and some club members years back proposed it to BCSF and no go.
Glad to hear they are looking at it atleast. IMO its about time the organization got out of the dark ages. Another POSSIBLE great step forward in the future of snowmobiling in BC. First the joining of BCSF/ABC, now this.
Somebody on here told me there is new blood at BCSF, i'm impressed and excited with the proposal and old way thinking has to go.
BTW, i don't think the proposed $200 for a season pass is adequate and if your going to make it work the pass should reflect a more real world number. Back east a season pass is closer to $400 per sled.
The more you ride the cheaper your pass will be and yes a day pass should be offered for non season holders.

catinthehat · Oct 11, 2016

Lund said:
Well i know most of you hardly ever agree with me but i have been lobbying for this for 20years and i have been beat down on this discussion even on this forum. I believe it can work. It works in the east and has for years, it can work here with some customization to fit our province. My self and some club members years back proposed it to BCSF and no go.
Glad to hear they are looking at it atleast. IMO its about time the organization got out of the dark ages. Another POSSIBLE great step forward in the future of snowmobiling in BC. First the joining of BCSF/ABC, now this.
Somebody on here told me there is new blood at BCSF, i'm impressed and excited with the proposal and old way thinking has to go.
BTW, i don't think the proposed $200 for a season pass is adequate and if your going to make it work the pass should reflect a more real world number. Back east a season pass is closer to $400 per sled.
The more you ride the cheaper your pass will be and yes a day pass should be offered for non season holders.

With the millions of acres available to ride without a pass your scenario will only decrease the number of BCSF members. I may be wrong but isn't the east regulated out the ying-yang where they can ride?

Lund · Oct 11, 2016

catinthehat said:
With the millions of acres available to ride without a pass your scenario will only decrease the number of BCSF members. I may be wrong but isn't the east regulated out the ying-yang where they can ride?

I just wanted to add but forgot to. Our proposal at the time was never to eliminate the already existing club member ships system. BUT it was an option for those riding multiple areas. Rider's riding the same areas would maintian their current status quo. Thus those clubs would retain their memberships. This would also keep the operation cost in check.

Anyhow its not my proposal, i'm done with that a long time ago. Hope they can work something out, this is good news imo.

takethebounce · Oct 11, 2016

I am not a local but I have some thoughts which may have been looked at previously.

I have owned as many as four season passes (Fernie, Nelson, Revy, Sicamous) in a year. Heck I even have second member on my passes some years. I tend to get two now for the two main areas I ride. This adds up and for guys like me who travel a lot to ride in various places many which are club areas and many which are not maintained at all we cough up the money for memberships knowing where it is going.

In order to ensure the larger clubs get their fair share, why not propose a BCSF flat fee membership at a lower cost and have the ability to add additional zones at an additional cost. I am going to swag the prices but say You want a BCSF, its $100 which may cover several small non maintained club areas, you want to add Revy, Its another $75, add Fernie, $50, add Eagle Valley, another $75 or whatever fees research determines are suitable and lesser for the small clubs. Almost like a fishing tag system. You buy a base license and add tags for classified waters and so on. BCSF will get their premiums to divide and the clubs get the additional funding they require.

Anyhow, interesting.

skegpro · Oct 11, 2016

Don't like it.

Need to go after the day pass users for more $$$.

You shouldn't be able to buy a day pass without first having a $50 or $75 BCSF membership.

I agree that the BCSF needs to be better funded to protect our interests as a user group to keep riding areas open.

But the more heavily used areas need the $$$ for their operating budget.

Sledding is really the most fun you can have for $25 -30 bucks.

And we all know we pay a hell of alot more for our gear vs supporting our clubs.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

VARDA · Oct 11, 2016

Thanks for starting this. I look forward to reading what others feel about this plan, even with the little info that is being given to them. It has potential for major implications, good and bad and I really don't know if we fully understand all of them. Managing or working within mountain snowmobiling is a much different beast than managing large trail networks that this plan is based off of.

What this really comes down to is the BCSF needs our help and buy in and they cant get it..why? I read about people mentioning we need a unified voice...we have one and its the great people at the BCSF! The problem is that the BCSF only represents a lousy 14% of snowmobilers in BC.....WHY? Because snowmobilers are NOT BUYING memberships.

They need numbers and the only way to get them is for all of you to buy a membership in a club that belongs to the BCSF. This does not necessarily mean a $200 seasons pass, it could mean a simple membership option (similar to what we have at VARDA, you an buy a membership separate from seasons pass)

The BCSF needs the snowmobile community to get on board and sooner than later. Its embarrassing for me to think that we ask these dedicated volunteers to fight for our cause in government offices yet, the majority of people who read this will not buy a simple membership......why?

This isn't a new problem, we bring this up year after year and yet it is still not happening and numbers are floundering. What ever you do this year, please become a statistic...a member! And promote this to everyone you know who operates a snowmobile within BC, resident or not.

Snowmobiling needs your help...

Lund · Oct 11, 2016

What we tried to propose was like a 3 tier system.
At the top was a seasonal provincial pass for those riding all over. Then a club membership pass for those riding their regular riding areas and last was a daily trail pass for non members or occasional riders.
I have never really understood why the trail passes are so cheap but imo in this system it would be the most expensive way to ride, so to encourage people to join a club or become a BCSF member.
Today a trail pass should be atleast $45-50, have you gone shiing lately, day pass average $85 on most local hills.

Lund · Oct 11, 2016

VARDA said:
Thanks for starting this. I look forward to reading what others feel about this plan, even with the little info that is being given to them. It has potential for major implications, good and bad and I really don't know if we fully understand all of them. Managing or working within mountain snowmobiling is a much different beast than managing large trail networks that this plan is based off of.

What this really comes down to is the BCSF needs our help and buy in and they cant get it..why? I read about people mentioning we need a unified voice...we have one and its the great people at the BCSF! The problem is that the BCSF only represents a lousy 14% of snowmobilers in BC.....WHY? Because snowmobilers are NOT BUYING memberships.

They need numbers and the only way to get them is for all of you to buy a membership in a club that belongs to the BCSF. This does not necessarily mean a $200 seasons pass, it could mean a simple membership option (similar to what we have at VARDA, you an buy a membership separate from seasons pass)

The BCSF needs the snowmobile community to get on board and sooner than later. Its embarrassing for me to think that we ask these dedicated volunteers to fight for our cause in government offices yet, the majority of people who read this will not buy a simple membership......why?

This isn't a new problem, we bring this up year after year and yet it is still not happening and numbers are floundering. What ever you do this year, please become a statistic...a member! And promote this to everyone you know who operates a snowmobile within BC, resident or not.

Snowmobiling needs your help...

That was the EXACT reason we got turned down 20 years ago, lack of membership......thanks for posting

Mach1 · Oct 11, 2016

Sorry to say but out east it is not 400, 125 to 150 depending if you buy early, I lived there for yrs and bought tags for multiple sleds, but what would happen to people that goes 1 or 2 times a yr......will there be day passes also, I think lots to look into but I would be game. Thx

skegpro · Oct 11, 2016

VARDA said:
Thanks for starting this. I look forward to reading what others feel about this plan, even with the little info that is being given to them. It has potential for major implications, good and bad and I really don't know if we fully understand all of them. Managing or working within mountain snowmobiling is a much different beast than managing large trail networks that this plan is based off of.

What this really comes down to is the BCSF needs our help and buy in and they cant get it..why? I read about people mentioning we need a unified voice...we have one and its the great people at the BCSF! The problem is that the BCSF only represents a lousy 14% of snowmobilers in BC.....WHY? Because snowmobilers are NOT BUYING memberships.

They need numbers and the only way to get them is for all of you to buy a membership in a club that belongs to the BCSF. This does not necessarily mean a $200 seasons pass, it could mean a simple membership option (similar to what we have at VARDA, you an buy a membership separate from seasons pass)

The BCSF needs the snowmobile community to get on board and sooner than later. Its embarrassing for me to think that we ask these dedicated volunteers to fight for our cause in government offices yet, the majority of people who read this will not buy a simple membership......why?

This isn't a new problem, we bring this up year after year and yet it is still not happening and numbers are floundering. What ever you do this year, please become a statistic...a member! And promote this to everyone you know who operates a snowmobile within BC, resident or not.

Snowmobiling needs your help...

So Curtis has this idea been shot down already in the past? Or can you at least tell me what is wrong with it in principle?

Why not sell BCSF memberships for x amount of dollars with in advance or right at the trail head.

And with the yearly BCSF membership it gives you the right to then purchase a day trail pass.

That way every one that is on the mountain that day is a BCSF member vs just a trail pass.

I understand that you want us to buy a year pass to a club, and within that pass is the $30 BCSF membership but the reality is that some people will not cough up cash unless it is extracted from them -- at least not all at once.

But I can tell you this, absolutely no one is gonna turn around and go home because you extorted $30 out of them for a BCSF membership before allowing them to purchase their $30 trail fee.

I feel like I can pull up this exact same thread from last year, the repetition and inaction is getting old -- and possibly the definition of insanity.

Closing random thoughts.

If our idiot politicians can create new taxes to tax the very air we breathe then surely we as sledders can find a way to tax ourselves to save the sport we love.

End Rant

skegpro · Oct 11, 2016

Lund said:
That was the EXACT reason we got turned down 20 years ago, lack of membership......thanks for posting

Members to what?

The BCSF or a local club?

Lund · Oct 11, 2016

Mach1 said:
Sorry to say but out east it is not 400, 125 to 150 depending if you buy early, I lived there for yrs and bought tags for multiple sleds, but what would happen to people that goes 1 or 2 times a yr......will there be day passes also, I think lots to look into but I would be game. Thx

I just looked it up and i stand corrected, Ontario $260 for season and Quebec is $385 for season. Most all other provinces is slightly under $200.

tex78 · Oct 11, 2016

OK look at it this way, from the sicamous sled club point of view

The bank roll at the start of the year, like right now is just about nothing

That means every cent made in trail passes and membership is spent on costs for every year

They are a nonprofit organization

So for bcsf to want 20 % of every pass and membership for example, and clubs that are just staying afloat guess what

Not open anymore

And to give that 20 to a club that has no trails to groom, cabins to keep up ect it totally bogus

That's the proposal in a nut shell at the stand point

sent while drinking tea's

BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

I'm doo-ing it!

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Active VIP Member

Similar threads