Newbie Mountain Riders - A Learning Thread

[Modman]

Recently I have been noticing lots of threads regarding newbie riders starting in the hills this year. There seems to be a strong number of newer riders venturing into unfamiliar areas or folks who have purchased high power machines for riding in the mountains and have little or no experience regarding the significant perils of mountain riding. After the tragic season we just went through, I feel it would be inappropriate to not start a thread on some pointers for newbie mountain riders. I encourage any and all input (no bashing), lets try and help out fellow riders to have a safe, positive experience in the mountains. Any experiences you can share with them, I would highlight. Also, then we can link this thread to anyone with questions, as a comprehensive experience thread.

First and foremost, get avy training and get some good avy gear. Learn how to use it and practice emergency drills, seriously. I have been there in a real avy emergency, and have seen frazzled people walking around with beacons still on transmit instead of receive, searching for a buried sledder. Run through the scenario in your head and with friends on the hill. Practice finding a beacon and digging, these things could save your life. Remember that you can have all the training you want, but your buddies will need training too, since they could be the ones that are saving your life. Your training and gear aren't for saving your own behind, they are for whoever you ride with.

Don't ride beyond your ability. Only ride what you are comfortable and ask lots of questions. Tell people you are a new rider, there is no shame in admitting it, we all started somewhere/sometime. I have more respect for a rider that will stand their ground and not allow themselves to be put in an uncomfortable situation, than the rider that thinks after 10 mins on the hill, they know it all and wind up in the trees or in a bad scenario (that I now have to help get them out of). If you get into a bad situation, stop as soon as you realize it and get out. Don't continue blindly following someone (who may say they are "experienced") because they tell you it'll be "alright". I've found that the guy sitting at the cabin, bragging about how much "experience" they have on the hill, is usually the guy with the least amount of mountain knowledge. Look for the quiet guy sitting in the corner with his first aid kit spread on the table, ensuring that he has the proper supplies.

When entering an unfamiliar area, get a terrain map. You can find them on google for free, no excuses. When heading down a slope in deep snow, ride single file and pack a trail down so that you can climb back out easily. If you're not sure about the ability of a sled to make it back up, have the most experienced rider take that sled and go down, then come back up. This way if the sled can't make it, then you only have to pull one sled up the hill, not 3 or 4. Taking a conservative approach like this has saved me a few times.

I just got an emergency call for work, so I have to stop here. Will add more later if necessary, hoping some others will chime in and add their pointers since we have lots of experienced people here.

 

[pipes]

Good thinking Modman

Your first trip to the hills should be with someone that has a lot of time in the mountains and a lot of experience. Don't get a group of cherries and head out to learn on your own.

Can't stress enough on the importance of a good avy course.

 

[Rioplay]

Well said.

I will add one point that is a common misconception. Never assume that a hill will not avalanche just because other people are riding on the hill. Many times I have witnessed riders high marking on a hill that is known to avalanche on a regular basis and once one rider goes up the hill and makes it back down everyone else thinks it is safe to ride on. Use common sense, if there are large cornices above, steer clear of the hill. You never know when it could let go.

 

[pipes]

don't ride in terrain traps

if you have to cross, cross avy chutes one at a time

 

[ferniesnow]

Good thinking Modman

Your first trip to the hills should be with someone that has a lot of time in the mountains and a lot of experience. Don't get a group of cherries and head out to learn on your own.

Can't stress enough on the importance of a good avy course.

Right on pipes....the operative word is good! The seminar that is held for a couple of hours is better than nothing but that is not a course! All that seminar should tell you is that "Holy Sh+t" there is a lot going on out there and I'm scared. The minimum course should 2 days with a classroom day and a field day.

And to add to Rioplay's comment: we have a little place where a group rode most of the day on a slope and the last ride was when it slid. RIP buddy. Yes, there is a lot to learn out there.

 

[kjb]

Good thinking Modman

Your first trip to the hills should be with someone that has a lot of time in the mountains and a lot of experience. Don't get a group of cherries and head out to learn on your own.

Can't stress enough on the importance of a good avy course.

Definately ride with smart experienced riders! You'll be learning their habits.
It takes years of experience to understand avy phenomina.
Practice beacon searches untill you are able to find a hidden beacon in 2 min. Practice through out the season so it is 2nd nature.

 

[jay007]

I think that something should be said to start witha riding area that is appropriate, I started at Quartz Creek in Golden and in my opinion this is a great place for newbies to go, and as already stated, gong with someone with experience in mountain riding and riding the area you are in is a great resource.

If you need to himark do it one at a time, and remember if you go up, you gotta come back down.

 

[catmando]

Great thread Modman
Here is a link to powder riding 101,Before my first trip to the mountains my budd sent me this quit a few years back and I thought is was helpfull.My first trip was to clemina on a Bluebird day.when I came up out of the trees and came to the edge of the first big bowl before morning glory I honestly didnt think my heart could beat that fast,It was a day that I will never forget,In part because of the person that took me,very understanding and patient,It is very easy to scare the hell out of a first timer,specially when your riding a 95 xlt with a 136 inch track.LOL!
catmando!

 

[Free Rider]

Good Thread, My opinion is when you get to the cabin ask some of the locals of areas to avoid and which ones are good for new mountain riders. These are the guys that ride the hills every weekend so they are the most knowledgable.

 

[stuckenough]

Here's my 2 cents to all of the new guys. Watch what the really good riders are doing and slowly copy them. Don't expect to learn it all in one day and don't be afraid to ask questions...even from guys not in your group. Anyone on the hill worth there weight will be glad to help. I know I always will and I've been out there for 20 years this year. We're all out the for a good time although for the odd guy...it's a competition.

 

[Shibby!]

Don't ride beyond your ability. Only ride what you are comfortable and ask lots of questions. Tell people you are a new rider, there is no shame in admitting it, we all started somewhere/sometime. .

All great points listed, but this one should be highlighted along with the Avy Course.

I have limited experience (entering 3rd year), and I get the feeling most put on that they have a lot more, but actually don't. If they do, they are sometimes still not the person to be doing the teaching. In other words, use your judgement wisely. Lots will say "Just put it down and hold on". That's not an experienced person talking. To some extent true, but those who have done such things know that beginners need more indepth info about crests, hills, drops on the other side, holes, possibly blind spots, etc. If they sounds like they are good for important information, then they are likely the ones to be trusted.

At the end of the day, the most important thing above ALL things is to use your head.

You could be the most green person out there, but if you are the one to say "I'm not going up that slope", or "conditions say I shouldn't and won't be doing that", it could be enough to save your life.

 

[Summiteer]

I know lots of guys that I like and hang around with but I would never ride in the mountains with(there are lots of guys that won't ride with me too, 'cause I'm just not that good:d ). Guys you ride in the hill with should be like Army buddies, Maybe not the cleanest or nicest of guys, but people you KNOW that you can count on to use good judgement in questionable situations and will have your back if you get into trouble.

 

[Shibby!]

I know lots of guys that I like and hang around with but I would never ride in the mountains with(there are lots of guys that won't ride with me too, 'cause I'm just not that good:d ). Guys you ride in the hill with should be like Army buddies, Maybe not the cleanest or nicest of guys, but people you KNOW that you can count on to use good judgement in questionable situations and will have your back if you get into trouble.

Yup!

Another thing is, look at their avy gear! If they don't feel it necessary to carry a beacon, or have a base model beacon, chances are they don't care about saving your ass if the time arrises. Another thing is if they put their shovel on the sled, or carry it in their backpack. Nobody has confronted me about mine, but I have one on my sled AND in my backpack. Mostly using the one on the sled, but the backpack shovel is "back-up". If anybody cares, it's been a rock solid extendable shovel for $15. Has got many sleds unstuck included a vehicle or two. I believe I got it at Walmart (yea yea, I know). My other shovel is a quality BCA unit with extendable handle and probe. IF you feel the need to have a shovel on the sled for those times when it's handy to quickly assemble/grab, please have a back-up. The one above was 15$ and used for two years trouble free. If you want pictures I can dig those up.

For many, these things are common sense, but for those who don't take safety as a main concern, often don't follow these rules. A basic or analog beacon can work great IF the user knows how to use them. Otherwise these devices can send you in circles without finding the downed rider. All beacons require useage to become accustomed to. This is something I will hope achieve this year focus more on safety training then riding.

 

[Orrin]

All of the above plus don't outride the abilities of your least experienced rider.

 

[RUDY]

Interesting thread,alot of information.Myself i am green and not scared to say it because i want the guys i go with to know that I don't have the experience or knowledge so i am relying on them to coach me when we do go.If i don't feel comfortable with an area or doing something i'll tell the ppl i'm with.I enjoy going and having a blast but i will not risk my life or the life of others to do so.I am also looking at taking one of the Avy Courses to understand more.
Looking forward to go with Catmando and Fossy in Dec. for a trip and learn a few things from those guys.Can't wait,countdown on

 

[vrscr43]

Great Thread!
Me and my buddy's started riding in the mountains over 25 years ago.
No mountain experience at all. I think it helped that we were riding 1981 El tigre's and lots of trips we were lucky to get to the cabin let alone anywhere else.
Stuck, Stuck and then stuck. Sure taught you some basic powder riding skills.

With today's big tracked machines a newbie can get way back there due to the machine and very little skill and if he or she is not using any grey matter in certain situations.....

If it's your first time in the hills take it easy and use your brain and you will have an awesome experience.

 

[Modman]

Happy to see that this thread has some awesome knowledge being contributed, thanks to all of you who have participated. Thanks to the guys who have been honest about their experience level.

The throttle can be your best friend or your worst enemy. As Shibby stated, some guys will tell you to hold it to the bar, which isn't always a good idea.

Straight line shots up a hill is more of the place that you can hold it wide open and not suffer major consequences, hold it wide open when trying to sidehill across a steep slope in the trees and you are headed for disaster, ride to your ability and skill level.

By all means challenge yourself, but practice sidehilling in open terrain before you start tackling the boondocking in tight trees on 30 degree terrain. In order to get sidehilling properly, you need to keep the track spinning as well. Sometimes in harder snow this is hard to do, so keep in mind that spring snow is hard to get an edge into. If the track speed = your ground speed, your track will lay flat on the snow. Once your track tries to (or does) lay flat on the hill, you're going to be in trouble. Keep it spinning and the sled will be easier to keep on edge.

Spring snow......hero snow. Some of the best riding days you can have are in the spring (sun, snow and sleds), but keep in mind that spring snow makes climbing things very easy...easy to the point that you can get into some real steep areas. One day, a few years back, coming onto a lake in BC I didn't do any of this, just went up the highest hill and then turned around at the top, probably close to 800' vertical. My brakes faded on the way down from me trying to stop the sled on a 40 degree slope. I came shooting out onto the lake at close to 100 mph. If there had been trees or something immovable at the bottom of the hill, I'm pretty sure my outcome that day would have been a lot worse than only the bent ski I suffered.

Always plan a down route before you climb something, especially in the spring. Going up is the easy part, coming down a hard, steep slope can be a hair raising experience. Often times the sled brakes are simply not enough to slow you down, you can get going too fast and get out of control really quick. Plan a route that is straight or that involves areas where you can scrub off some speed. A couple years ago in April I climbed a small hill, no big deal, but after my turn out on the hard spring snow I was directly above a little 15-20' cliff. No big deal in 3 feet of powder, I could have ridden off the cliff into a soft powder landing or been able to slow down enough to steer around it. Not so on the hard spring snow, I ended up having to launch off it at full throttle to keep from endo'ing down the hill. Don't skid sideways if possible, your sled will simply roll.

Rubber side down always.

 

[muskegman]

Great Thread!
Me and my buddy's started riding in the mountains over 25 years ago.
No mountain experience at all. I think it helped that we were riding 1981 El tigre's and lots of trips we were lucky to get to the cabin let alone anywhere else.
Stuck, Stuck and then stuck. Sure taught you some basic powder riding skills.

With today's big tracked machines a newbie can get way back there due to the machine and very little skill and if he or she is not using any grey matter in certain situations.....

If it's your first time in the hills take it easy and use your brain and you will have an awesome experience.

Exactly! In fall of '05 at the Renshaw I remember letting a guy in our group take a rip on my new '06 Summit and when he came back down all he said was "Man... that thing can take you places that you don't want to go!"

 

[LID]

If someone is loaning you an old SOS (or any analog) beacon, don't even think of leaving the parking lot without at LEAST one practice search. That means one search with someone over your shoulder, telling you what is happening, then one where someone hides the beacon to be found and you find it on your own.

If you don't know how to use it, you will not find anyone in time with an old style beacon.

If you are borrowing a Tracker DTS, practice finding one beacon (easy), then learn how the "yellow button" works to find a second. If your buddy can't explain how you use the yellow button to find a second burial, you better find someone who can.

 

[LID]

Oh, and don't be shy to ask for help. Even if you are the "experienced" guy taking the new guy out for a first poke.

There are piles of guys out there who bought their SOS years ago(not bagging on SOS, I used to have one) at the sled shop, put batteries in them, and headed out. There's lots who don't want to sound like they don't know how to use them. Suck it up, find someone who knows, even if you need to head to the corner of the staging area, learn how to find 2 beacons.

Take a Hangfire or ZacsTracks avalanche course when you get the chance.